Hi Everyone,

I recently bought a nice 2006 V70 2.5T with 110k. I don't have a complete service history for the car. I just finished the timing belt this last weekend (thanks for all the great posts on this by the way).

The transmission is shifting perfectly but I understand that it can be a source of weakness in there cars. My dilemma is whether to risk a flush in a car with unknown transmission history as I read it can cause more problems by stiring up particles that should be best left sleep.

An alternative is to carry out 2 ATF changes within 2,000 miles of each other and as such replace 75% of the fluid without too much disturbance.

Any advice of this would be much appreciated.

By the way, I see Amazon is selling 12qrts of Castrol 3309 ATF for $61.88 with fee shipping, - not bad:

Thanks

Patrm

 

It isn't about disturbing particles. Its about removing clutch material in the fluid. I would leave it, I very rarely suggest a flush.

 

Thanks. Can I assume therefore that a double ATF change as I described would be best ??

 

No, because you are still removing clutch material that is in the fluid. You can try it and you may not have any problems. But that wouldn't be my recommendation.

 

I'd do the drain/refill a couple times. I understand the argument against doing so, but the alternative is what? Allow even more clutch material to continue accumulating, which will further increase the wear?

I'd much rather drain/refill, and even install an inline Magnefine filter to further trap any clutch material. If it fails, it fails. If not, I'll keep up on the fluid changes from here on out.

 

Why would it be wrong to remove the clutch material that is in the fluid?
I flushed my transmission and did the reset in the TCM.
My transmission fluid was totally black after 120k Km

 

Because sometimes that clutch material is helping the transmission operate.

 

I bought one with 136K miles on last fall that had fairly dark oil. Drained and refilled with Toyota ATF.

(weigh the oil pan and some rags and keep a tally and it is real easy to get the exact same amount back in).

After that I drove it for a week then I flushed it by machining an adapter that fit the oil cooler return port. Same technique, Let the car pump 1600g out into a pre-weighted bottle on a scale, fill 1600g (two litre) back in using funnel connected to oil cooler return line. After using up 18 quarts the oil was clear. Then I tallied up all the weights of the bottles and adjusted the total oil fill.

After resetting the TCM and the oil life counter it started to shift as new. The hunting on the over drive lock is gone and it drives better than most ford/hundai/chevy rental cars I drive that are near new.

I think the "don't change the oil thoughts" are more of an urban legend than anything. I'm sure there are trannys that failed after an oil change but there are probably far more failing from never getting an oil change.

 

I don't doubt that dislodged junk could cause a failure shortly after a flush. However, in that case (and IMO), the tranny is pretty close to dying anyway. Should one withold a fluid replacement indefinitely until the tranny does fail? My opinion is no. If it's going to fail, let it fail. Perhaps choose your time such that it's not right before an upcoming trip, but beyond that, I'd say it's better off to change the fluid and get it over with.

There's an interesting video:
At around 4:40 the fellow explains one problem with why (again, IMO) allowing that clutch material to continue floating around is not a great idea. The video is from an AW55-51SN. I believe these Volvo's have the AW55-50SN, but I suspect the issues are identical.

 

I can tell you from real world experience as a fleet manager of a combined car and truck fleet of over 100,000 vehicles that doing a quick lube type power flush on vehicles over 100K that had never been touched had a high rate of failure. Might be that they didn't do the filter and the power flushing caused material to clog the filter and starve the transmissions components. Most of our vehicles did get traded at 60 to 80K so it wasn't an issue but some were kept longer and drivers would approve the service before getting our approval. If they hadn't done it earlier at say 60 or 70k, then it was our policy to deny the service.

The clutch material is similar to brake dust. It's something that improves the friction in the clutches. In most cases if the transmission fails after a flush it's because that "grit" was removed and now you have new very slippery fluid replacing it and the remaining material of the worn clutch packs in the automatic start to slip, burn up and finally fail.

I don't like the quick lube flushes because I've worked with people who have worked there and I don't trust what fluid they are putting in. Or I can't be sure they aren't using the last of the fluid from the other guys car on mine and mixing types.

We're in Minnesota and one quick lube was using the blue toilet bowl discs in their "windshield washer fluid" tank to turn regular water that blue tint. YES, it really happened. How would you like to lose your washer tank and pump if that stuff was still in there when it went below zero, froze and expanded.

I had a car pushed over to the shop I worked in once where the kid over there actually dumped the new engine oil, all five quarts on the manual transmission clutch thinking the plastic timing mark cover in the bell housing was the oil fill. Don't ask me how. So much for slamming the fast lubes.

On my own car I DIY flushed it at 250K even though I had no history on it since it was around 60K. It was owned by a single mom who had no idea or money for maintenance. I was pretty sure I was creating more of a problem than I was fixing but I couldn't stand the black fluid and I was pretty sure it was the original fluid with 250K on it.
Two years later and just shy of 300K and it's still going strong. If you regularly service the transmission you have nothing to worry about but if it's neglected I still lean toward doing it and taking the chance. It's oil with additives and the additives break down and it picks up moisture and other contaminants.
In my case it was new to me and I knew if I toasted the transmission it was just a good excuse to build the next one better

 

I suggest that you take a quart out and add a new quart every oil change until your fluid starts looking better. Then you can go two for two without worry. You can get a small hand squeeze siphon pump and insert it into the dip stick tube of the tranny and pump the fluid out into a used quart bottle, then you can add that exact amount of new fluid back in.

 

I have a lot of respect for you but on this one I disagree. If the transmission is only operating because of clutch particles in the fluid it is very near to the end of its life anyway.

I think the "transmission failed after flush" idea is more a result of dislodged pieces of crud winding up where they shouldn't - in the valve body.

The gold standard treatment for a neglected transmission is to install an external transmission filter in the transmission cooler line. This will remove all the particulates from the fluid without shocking the transmission with a big dose of new fluid.

Then start a series of drain and fills. This will gradually clean up the interior of a neglected transmission and the dirt will wind up in the external filter and not in the valve body.

 

Everyone has an opinion on this and you can do whatever you want. Just warning you that it could (could, not will) cause problems. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

I understand. I have never let any of my vehicles get to this state but have bought one or two used vehicles with dirty transmission fluid. It's just not in my nature to leave dirty fluid in a transmission. I couldn't do it. The external magnetic filter will make the fluid as clean as new fluid.

On a related note, many Volvos have Aisin-Warner transmissions. Toyota also uses Aisin-Warner transmissions. These are generally excellent transmissions and will last a very long time if maintained with clean fluid.

 

Have you actually done this and if so how many years did it take before the fluid started looking better ??

IMHO, if you're not going to do the Flush yourself, just pull the plug and add back in what came out < > 3 qts. Then check the level on the stick. Wait a couple weeks and repeat until you've done it at least three times.

 

I think I misunderstood this thing with "power flush".
I thought that it meant changing the fluid by a machine the normal way or by hand.
If i get it right it is to force fluid backwards in the system to loosen up dirt in the system?
Newer heard of powerflushing here in Sweden.

But if you change the fluid in your transmission always make sure that you reset the oil counter.
If it still make hard and nasty shifting try to reset the adaption and do the drive cycle.
2001-2002 is may have defective B4 covers but that is only affecting 2-3 and 3-4 gear.
I think that some of the transmissions that is replaced would have been possible to "rescue" by doing this.

To let clutch material continue floating around in the system is not an option for me.

 

I guess I will have to let it start looking bad first to see.

 

He was being sarcastic.

 

I'm going to attempt at resuscitating this thread...

Bought an 04 V70 non-turbo with shifting issues from 1st to 2nd (I haven't had any yet but previous stated it would only shift hard when the weather was warm out). I'm debating on doing the manual 'drain and fill' flush method versus having my mechanic do a power flush and at the same time change the transmission filter (if this is even possible with this type transmission. I have read that some are sealed. Not sure on mine). Any thoughts and pros/cons to each?

Right now the fluid appears brown and is hard to gauge on the dipstick. I was told the car had to be running in order to properly check the level.

 

There is drain and fill. You drain out the fluid (trans has a plug) and fill it back up, drive on it, and do it at least twice more. Changes out most of your fluid. You choose what quality of fluid.

There is a DIY flush where you pull the (top on my '95) trans cooler line at the radiator and put a length of clear hose on and put that in a bucket. Let engine idle, shift slowly through gears and when you see bubbles in the drain line kill engine and add more fluid and repeat. You are using the engine and trans to gently push out the old fluid with fresh. You choose what quality of fluid. I like this method.

Power flush. Done with a machine at a fast lube. Please don't. There are just so many things that can go wrong and total failure of your high mileage transmission is just one of them. Plus it's just more expensive than any value you'll ever get out of it and who knows what fluid they really use.

I had a co worker tell me about his previous job at a fast oil change franchise where the owner rather than pay for the blue washer fluid (they buy it in bulk from a tanker) would have his employees fill the big plastic tank with water and add a "blue" toilet bowl cleaner to it to tint the water. Might be a great way to cheat in the summer but here in Minnesota that can burst your windshield washer tank, pump, lines and nozzles in the winter.

CHECKING FLUID LEVEL
1) Ensure vehicle is level. Apply parking brake and gear
selector lever to "P" position. Start and idle engine. Move gear
selector lever through all gears, while pausing 4-5 seconds for
engagement at each position.
2) Return gear selector lever to "P" position. Wait 2 minutes
and check fluid