940 GLE stalling randomly, desperate plea for diagnosis
#1
940 GLE stalling randomly, desperate plea for diagnosis
Hej, I’m new here. I have a Volvo 940 GLE (the second one of this kind I own) which I really love. Or loved. I am seriously thinking of junking it if this issue isn’t resolved very soon, it is driving me absolutely crazy.
Here’s the diagnosis: car dies while driving, randomly, with check engine light coming on for a split second and then stalling. Feels as if the engine gets no fuel all of a sudden. Starts up again after 20sec-2,3 minutes, which is EXTREMELY annoying on the open road. Sometimes never happens for days, sometimes happens three times on a short drive.
Also, the car (purchased used) only holds about 7 gallons and has always idled low (runs rich), even though my mechanic couldn’t find anything unusual with the tank itself.
Engine codes that show up after the car stalls:
On socket 6: 214 (Perm. Magnet Generator), 144 (Fuel system load signal)
On socket 2: 221 (Lambda operation), 121 (mass airflow sensor), 131 (Ignition RPM sensor)
Does this make any sense, pointing to whatever triggers this nonsense, assuming that a bunch of this signals is simply triggered by the engine dying off. But what makes it die in the first place?
Over the last year, I’ve had it at a mechanic two times for this. We exchanged the external fuel pump, the mass airflow sensor and another sensor I think was the crank sensor.
Please help me. I can’t put up with this much longer.
Here’s the diagnosis: car dies while driving, randomly, with check engine light coming on for a split second and then stalling. Feels as if the engine gets no fuel all of a sudden. Starts up again after 20sec-2,3 minutes, which is EXTREMELY annoying on the open road. Sometimes never happens for days, sometimes happens three times on a short drive.
Also, the car (purchased used) only holds about 7 gallons and has always idled low (runs rich), even though my mechanic couldn’t find anything unusual with the tank itself.
Engine codes that show up after the car stalls:
On socket 6: 214 (Perm. Magnet Generator), 144 (Fuel system load signal)
On socket 2: 221 (Lambda operation), 121 (mass airflow sensor), 131 (Ignition RPM sensor)
Does this make any sense, pointing to whatever triggers this nonsense, assuming that a bunch of this signals is simply triggered by the engine dying off. But what makes it die in the first place?
Over the last year, I’ve had it at a mechanic two times for this. We exchanged the external fuel pump, the mass airflow sensor and another sensor I think was the crank sensor.
Please help me. I can’t put up with this much longer.
#2
From the codes and the stalling symptoms, it sounds to me like your crank position sensor is acting up. It is located on the top of the bell housing where the engine and transmission meet. It has a fat black wire that runs to a connector on the firewall. Check for flaking/cracking of the insulation. If it looks bad, replace (and if your tech said he replaced it and it is cracked, I would replace your tech as well).
Regarding the car running rich, it's probably related to the lambda code (221). Is your oxygen sensor connected and working properly. When I got a 221 and 121 code on my old car, eventually I had to replace the AMM. For a GLE, its not as easy to find a cheap replacement as I think it is a different part for that engine than the 8 valve cars. I always look in JYs when I am there for cars that were wrecked and scavenge AMMs from there. They have costed me anywhere from $25-$35 and so far I have been lucky and pulled good ones. However, the 24 valve cars are harder to come by.
Good luck
Regarding the car running rich, it's probably related to the lambda code (221). Is your oxygen sensor connected and working properly. When I got a 221 and 121 code on my old car, eventually I had to replace the AMM. For a GLE, its not as easy to find a cheap replacement as I think it is a different part for that engine than the 8 valve cars. I always look in JYs when I am there for cars that were wrecked and scavenge AMMs from there. They have costed me anywhere from $25-$35 and so far I have been lucky and pulled good ones. However, the 24 valve cars are harder to come by.
Good luck
Last edited by act1292; 12-06-2012 at 08:04 AM.
#4
@ sicnarf: no I haven't. Would that be your first guess? I've heard this before, but always ignored it as "this sounds too easy".... DOes this thing not have two relays, one behind the ashtray and one somewhere else, black with cables on it (sorry for the amateurish description)? What do you make of all the other codes - chain reaction?
@act: thanks a lot. This is the crank sensor we're talking about, right? If so, I bought the thing myself and gave it to the mechanic to put it. Still looks fine to me. cost me 80 bucks but didn't help. Apparently. I've also replaced the mass air flow sensor already... do you think there's a connection between the runs-rich-and-idles-low problem and the stalling?
@act: thanks a lot. This is the crank sensor we're talking about, right? If so, I bought the thing myself and gave it to the mechanic to put it. Still looks fine to me. cost me 80 bucks but didn't help. Apparently. I've also replaced the mass air flow sensor already... do you think there's a connection between the runs-rich-and-idles-low problem and the stalling?
#7
Sorry, I wasn't ignoring your follow-up questions. I just didn't have time to go online yesterday.
Yes, I was referring to the crank sensor. I believe code 214 on socket 6 and 131 on socket 2 are referring to an error on this signal. That is why I suspect the crank sensor. Also, your stalling symptoms also are typical of a failing crank sensor. I would check to make sure that the sensor is not loose and jiggling around. It's kind of a pain to get to but having the codes and the symptoms really point to this as a problem.
On the other hand, as sicnarf pointed out, a failing fuel pump relay gives the same stalling symptoms. But when it stalls and won't start, check to see if you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when you turn the key to the II position. If it doesn't, then I would suspect the fuel pump relay.
Regarding the running rich, that could be a failing AMM or oxygen sensor. Check the wiring to the oxygen sensor to see if it is all intact.
Regarding the AMM, make sure the connector is seated properly. Check to make sure there isn't any corrosion around the contacts. Did your tech replace it with a new one or used one? If he used a new one, you would remember cause they run upwards of $300.
If either the oxygen sensor or the AMM aren't working, the ECU would go into "limp mode" which would cause it to run rich. The low idle may be a symptom of this as well.
Yes, I was referring to the crank sensor. I believe code 214 on socket 6 and 131 on socket 2 are referring to an error on this signal. That is why I suspect the crank sensor. Also, your stalling symptoms also are typical of a failing crank sensor. I would check to make sure that the sensor is not loose and jiggling around. It's kind of a pain to get to but having the codes and the symptoms really point to this as a problem.
On the other hand, as sicnarf pointed out, a failing fuel pump relay gives the same stalling symptoms. But when it stalls and won't start, check to see if you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when you turn the key to the II position. If it doesn't, then I would suspect the fuel pump relay.
Regarding the running rich, that could be a failing AMM or oxygen sensor. Check the wiring to the oxygen sensor to see if it is all intact.
Regarding the AMM, make sure the connector is seated properly. Check to make sure there isn't any corrosion around the contacts. Did your tech replace it with a new one or used one? If he used a new one, you would remember cause they run upwards of $300.
If either the oxygen sensor or the AMM aren't working, the ECU would go into "limp mode" which would cause it to run rich. The low idle may be a symptom of this as well.
#8
1) Bad crank position sensor - code 214.
2) Flaky fuel injection relay.
3) Bad ignition switch.
4) Disintegrating foam on the inside of the airbox intermittently blocking/disabling the MAF sensor.
Some other ideas: (a) wiring problem - chafed or melted insulation, broken conductor or something like that; (b) blocked fuel pickup or fuel filter; (c) flaky ignition coil; (d) vacuum hoses.
#10
IXNAY on the 'pull battery to reset check engine light'. while that probably WILL work, instead, you should A) read and write down the codes, and B) reset them with the code reader button under the hood. All 1989-1995 Volvos have the ODB reader in front of the left suspension tower.
see Engine and OBD Diagnostic Codes for the procedures.
see Engine and OBD Diagnostic Codes for the procedures.
#11
galnum read this-http://lifehacker.com/5878754/the-five-most-common-check-engine-problems-and-what-you-should-do-about-them
About your tank only holding 7 gallons,I think I know whats wrong.
1.Your intank fuel pump has been changed and is wrongly put in the tank as it is a very difficult procedure especially if you have large hands.. Could be put crooked sort of inside.
2. The grounding of the pump is faulty or maybe you dont have any proper grounding at all.. Check the grounding of the pump and the grounding of the tail lights. Sometimes amateurs get them all mixed upp and wrong.
About your tank only holding 7 gallons,I think I know whats wrong.
1.Your intank fuel pump has been changed and is wrongly put in the tank as it is a very difficult procedure especially if you have large hands.. Could be put crooked sort of inside.
2. The grounding of the pump is faulty or maybe you dont have any proper grounding at all.. Check the grounding of the pump and the grounding of the tail lights. Sometimes amateurs get them all mixed upp and wrong.
#12
yeah, that fuel pump relay is one of the biggest causes of such random behavior. if you buy a new relay, make sure its a Stribel (or a real Volvo one, which are made by Stribel), the other brands are less reliable (KAE, and various noname chinese things). Stribel's logo is a circle with an S that has like )( across it almost like a $ (dollar sign).
#13
or the intank pump isn't running at all, and the external pump is giving up when the gas gets that low (except in my case when this happened, it didnt just quit, rather, when I was on the bottom 1/3rd of a tank, I'd lose power at high throttle, high RPM, but it would come back more or less OK when I backed off and didn't drive like a maniac).
#14
#15
also, on a nearly 20 year old car, the wires can be rotted as they are going through the plate.
another thing... if you replace the pump and/or sending unit, DOUBLE CHECK THE WIRING ON THE NEW SENDER OR PUMP, multiple reports of replacement parts arriving mis-wired. I'd test everythinng after hooking it up, before replacing it into the tank, as that job is harder than it should be.
another thing... if you replace the pump and/or sending unit, DOUBLE CHECK THE WIRING ON THE NEW SENDER OR PUMP, multiple reports of replacement parts arriving mis-wired. I'd test everythinng after hooking it up, before replacing it into the tank, as that job is harder than it should be.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post