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  #1  
Old 08-26-2007, 03:26 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Default S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

My 2001 S60 T5 recently began to get hard to start. Usually takes pumping the gas pedal to get it to start. Once stated it seems to run fine, but a strong gas/fuel smell is now very strong. It is not coming from under the hood, but can be smelled if standing beside the car. No messages in the mesage center, but have not had anyone try a code reader. Has 90,000 miles on it. Is it the fuel filter?....Just crawled up under and noticed that it looks like gas has been leaking down the tank in the area near the filter...is this a totally new problem or could it be related to the filter?
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2007, 03:36 PM
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2001 Volvo S60
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: West Michigan
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Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Sounds like you're right on the money. I think its the fuel filter too. I just did mine a few weeks ago. A jackstand or ramp and a socket set or wrench is the only thing you'll need. FCP may have the best prices.
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  #3  
Old 09-02-2007, 02:57 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Well, replaced the fuel filter. Has helped with some of the gas smell, but not all of it. It's still hard to start when cold, but after it starts it runs fine. Is there a gasket where the fuel pump attaches to the gas tank? I'm thinking it may be leaking from there causing the smell and a small vacuum leak. Just a thought.
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  #4  
Old 09-10-2007, 02:46 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

I ran into the same fuel smell problem on my 2002 S60. Upon some investigation I found the NHTSA has a campaign number 07V152000 and Volvo has campaign number R176 addressing this exact problem. They state is the remedy is dealers will replace the fuel pump free of charge. The bad news is they claim it is only available to cars in Arizona and Nevada. The consequence stated in the campaigns is, "Fuel leakage in the presence of an ignition source could result in a fire." Both my dealer and Volvo refuse to replace my fuel pump because I live in California. Why they think I do not have the same potential of a fire is beyond me.
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:00 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Yea, I saw that recall. I went to the NHTSA web page and filed a complaint. I suggest anyone else that is having this problem go there also. Here is the link http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/?CFID=1...TOKEN=89506074

Maybe if they get enough complaints, they'll have to expand the recall to all of us.
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  #6  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:13 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Here's what I've been told by Volvo:"Thank you for your email.

If your complaint to NHTSA results in a recall for your particular vehicle, you will be notified by mail. Until that time, only the vehicles flagged as being affected by the recall can have the recall done.

Sincerely,

Bart S. Levine

VCNA"
Here's what I was told by the National Highwat Transportation Safety Administration:"Rcd you complaint about your vehicle being out of recall scope. Volvo's data showed a very very small percentage of vehicle outside of the two hottest states may have the same problem (do you spend time in hotter region beside your home state?). Volvo is covering all other vehicles that are out of recall scope w/ a 8-year/80k miles emissions warranty...your veh. appears to be just out of the mileage limits, but within the time limit...I would like to fwd your report to Volvo, but I cannot fwd it as you did not specifically allowed us to do so (our system defaults to "not allowed" if you do not specify). According to Volvo, they believe that just some of the dealers are not following thru on the out of scope vehicles...

If you allow us to fwd your complaint and personal information (name, VIN, phone, address) to Volvo, please reply to this email and state that " I allow NHTSA to provide a copy of this report (VOQ) to the manufacturer"

If you still do not allow us to inform Volvo, then my suggestion is to contact Volvo direct and inform them of this (let them know you were just outside the mileage limit, but within the time limit) and request an reimbursement or portion of it.

Peter C. Ong
Safety Defects Engineer
Office of Defects Investigation
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
US DOT
O 202-366-0583
F 202-366-1767"
I replied:" I allow NHTSA to provide a copy of this report (VOQ) to the manufacturer"

Also, I live in Nashville, TN and we had at least 3 weeks of temps with highs over 100 degrees farenhite this past August. That is the time the trouble started. I firmly believe that my car should be included as it has the same safety problems of those in the other states. I and my family are at the same risk as others who are being covered. Will it take one of us burning to death to make all affected cars included? I certainly hope not. The NHTSB should require the recall if Volvo will not do it on their own. Also, the mileage allowance of 10,000 per year is very unreasonable. Hardly anyone drives that few miles per year."
NHTSA replied,"FYI,

During the investigation, Volvo reported one claim for the MY01-02 S60 population of 774 vehicles in TN yielding a rate of 0.13% which is comparable to the national average. Volvo reported 291 Arizona/Nevada S60 claims over a population of f1,300 vehicles yielding a rate of 22.4%. There were no fire/crash/injury associated with this issue.



Peter C. Ong
Safety Defects Engineer
ODI, NVS212
NHTSA - US DOT
O 202-366-0583
F 202-366-1767"
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  #7  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:15 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Looks like we're screwed and will have to foot the bill ourselves.
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2007, 05:51 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Just thought...Could this be the gasket for the fuel filter causing the small leak and smell?
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  #9  
Old 10-12-2007, 12:36 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

All,
Having the same problem on an `02 S60 - Gas leaking/dripping from the top passenger side part of the tank, right where the fuel pump is. I spoke with the contact below, Peter Ong, from the NHTSA and he was very helpful and listened to me about the issue. Peter said he talked with Volvo N. America and they were going to work with people about the issue, even with people supposedly outside of the adjusted emissions warranty of 8 years/80000 miles. I called Volvo HQ at 1-800-458-1552. They were very nice and said that unless my specific problem was under the determined cause and unless I lived in Arizona or Nevada, I would not be covered. They said the cause was determined by Volvo to be too much sulfur in the fuel; amazing the kind of baloney that they can come up with as the "cause". Anyway I passed this information on to Peter at NHTSA and he didn't seem too pleased with the response, nor did he seem to give credence to the sulfur explanation. I have submitted a complaint via the NHTSA website listed in this thread. Hopefully this will get the ball rolling on a nationwide recall if there are more instances of this out there. The current recall is only a couple of months old so guess we’ll all have to wait and see what happens.
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  #10  
Old 10-16-2007, 08:50 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

I just had the gas smell issue with my 2002 S60. Turned out to be a leaking fuel pump around the wires. I called Volvo as you guys reccommended and they would not acknowledge there was any problem. In fact the women that answered the phone was down right rude, which is very unusual for Volvo. She would only say to contact the local dealer and wouldn't even acknowledge the recall number in Nevada/Arizona as I'm in FL.Guess it's not hot down here. Turns out the dealer didn't have the pump in stock and saidthey were now onnational backorder with no release date. Went to a trusted independent Volvo shop down the street. The owner had two leftand said they see the problem all the time with S60s and S80s. Poorly designed plastic pump housing. Bottom line is that I spent over $500. to have it replaced as my kid drives the car over 150 milesto college and needed to leave within hours. I have three Volvos and they are good cars, however Volvo has a history of not correcting their poor designs when the car is out of warranty. (I'm still pissed about my old 240 with the biodegradable engine harness that destroyed all the electronics until I found out what was really going on.) I plan to file a complaint with the NHTSB tomorrow.
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  #11  
Old 10-16-2007, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Where in FLA are you?
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  #12  
Old 10-19-2007, 12:56 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

All,
I am supposed to hear from NHTSA, hopefully today on what if anything they are going to do or pursue with Volvo. On a side note I found the problem with the fuel pump and indeed it is a poor design. There are cracks in the white plastic cover allowing the fuel to leak out when under pressure. I have a picture and will post it when I get a chance. As far as a fix, if only temporary, or maybe longer if it hold s up. I got to thinking on what I could do to stop the leak. I came up with two options. Either take plastic gas can and melt the plastic to mold it into the area where the cracks are or find some material that was fuel resistant and could seal up the cracks. Not wanting to ruin a perfectly good gas container, I went to the local Advance Auto and found JB Waterweld which specifically said a use was to patch fuel tanks. Since these were only cracks I figured what the hell. So last night I thoroughly cleaned out the area of any debris and did a complete cleaning with household cleaner and q-tips. I etched up the plastic as much as I could with some sandpaper. I then kneaded the epoxy into the four quadrants (see picture I’ll post later) where two of them had cracks and then smoothed it all over. I let it cure over night even though the packaging said it only took 20 minutes to fully cure. This morning I started the car up and let it run for 20 minutes and so far no leak or new smell of gas. I plan on watching it all weekend and if everything looks good I'll seal it all back up and hope the NHTSA can get Volvo to do the right thing.
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2007, 10:00 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Thanks Hesterjs, I await your reply. Sounds like a good temporary fix. Hopefully Volvo will do the right thing in time. If so I plan to pursue a refund and a replacement with a better pump if Volvo has to redesign it....
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  #14  
Old 10-21-2007, 11:51 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 6
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

All,
Here are the pictures of the cracks in the fuel pump assembly (red arrows) and a picture of my repair with the JB Waterweld. So far after three days of driving no leaks.

[IMG]local://upfiles/11776/5EC7FE5FB34449C59701D2F2EFB35194.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/11776/C158B1B9413B4441AFB95713C04326AD.jpg[/IMG]
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  #15  
Old 10-23-2007, 10:10 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

I too just spoke with Peter Ong. Very nice man, very patient, very helpful & lots of information.

Nutshell: plastic housing breaks down over time due to the exposire to gas (no specific reference to sulfer indicated) and exposure to heat. Basically the "mixture" used to create this plastic is suseptible to breaking down when exposed to heat and/or gas. (dont know if mutually exclusive or not)

My backstory is that I bought the car in Nv and it was driven in Nv for 3+ years, then I moved to Tx. The issue arose about a year after I got to Tx, causing me to believe that this isnt a Az & Nv specific problem.

My car is currently at Volvo of Richardson (dropped off last night) and I await the phone call from them to let me know exactly what is causing that gas smell, hard start, etc.?

Peter said that EVERYONE must file a complaint with the NTSA. The only way they can approach Volvo, with the idea that this is a bigger issue than initially thought, is if the NTSA can cite complaints that have been filed with them.

Complaints can be filed at
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

Now, I dont know about you BUT, I vividly recall recieving a letter from Volvo about the "throttle recall" and how, if you were a customer that came out of pocket for repairs before the recall was issued, Volvo would be compensating you for the cost of the repair. If this issue is deemed to be wider in scope, I have faith that Volvo will recompense.

Moral of the story
1) FILE YOUR COMPLAINT!!!!
2) Save your reciepts!!!
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  #16  
Old 10-23-2007, 10:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Argh! After filling out the info on the NTSB webiste to file a complaint, I click submit and am told that there is a database error and my complain could not be submitted [:@]
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  #17  
Old 10-23-2007, 01:50 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 57
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Volvo of Richardson, Tx replaced the fuel pump.

[/align] They did not tell me that it was the cracked housing of the fuel pump that was causing the issue. They actually did not tell me what it was that made them determine that they should replace the fuel pump. I will ask them what the issue was, and will post it if it makes any logical sense, after I get my keys back!

[/align] They did say that my vehicle was originally purchased in Texas, and not in Nevada, and, therefore, it wasn't covered under the warranty HOWEVER they went ahead and fixed it at no charge under the "goodwill clause" something or other.[/align] [/align] I did not bother to interject that, even though the car was not purchased in Nevada, it wasdriven in Nevada for 3 years, and then in Texas for another 1+ year,and that maybe this issue had nothing to do with the states of Nevada or Arizona. [/align] [/align] The reason I didn't say anything is becauseI could tell that the service person (Justin)was headed to the "fixed at no cost to you" summary.[/align] [/align] Why argue if you are getting what you wanted, right?[/align] [/align]
Good Luck Everyone!
[/align]
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  #18  
Old 10-23-2007, 05:11 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Posts: 11
Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Latest Update - Just spent over $1,000.00 getting the fuel pump replaced. Strange, Volvo says my vehicle is not affected, but repairs it the same way as they repair the recalled vehicles. Then the person from the NHTSA e-mails me and is upset because I included his work contact information in this forum. Funny how a public servant doesn't want anyone to know how to contact him at his job which we pay for! He is paid by our tax dollars!
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  #19  
Old 10-23-2007, 05:13 PM
 
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Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Everyone please file your complaints with the NHTSA and lets force Volvo to do the right thing!
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2007, 09:07 PM
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Default RE: S60 T5 Hard to start and fuel Smell

Gosh, I am really sorry to hear this! I used the info you posted to alert Volvo or Richardson that I Volvo was fixing the issue for all affected cars under the 8year/80k emissions warranty... I think it was the fact that I told him that I was all over the internet and had found that the NTHSA had spoken to Volvo and was covering it this way that alerted them that I wouldnt go quietly. If they were going to tell me that my fuel pump casing wasnt cracked, I was going to tell them to stop work on the car and I would be down after work to inspect the casing myself.

When I got to Volvo I did ask what the problem was. The issue with my fuel pump was exactly what the recall said it would be - that cracked housing.

In my opinion, Volvo, and the dealers, are doing their best to not fix vehicles under the recall for 2 reasons... Any vehicles not covered by the recall are direct income $$$ to Volvo service centers AND if they start letting everyone fix their vehicles under the recall, then the recall is going to get huge....

blam, I am really sorry that you didnt get yours fixed at no cost. Maybe you can keep in touch with the guy at the NHTSA and ask him what you can do. Yea, you posted his info on a public board...apologize and ask him for his help! Keep your reciept tho. I have a very strong feeling that, eventually, you will be recompensed for your expenses. Did you happen to get your parts back?

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Old 10-23-2007, 09:07 PM
 
 
 
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car, difficult, fuel, gas, hard, morning, oil, pedal, problems, pump, s60, smell, start, starting, t5, volvo


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