timing belt diy? +, worth keeping @ 240k?
#1
12-25-2010, 09:36 PM
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timing belt diy? +, worth keeping @ 240k?
Hi!
First of all, as the rest of this post is a novelette: I've done a number of car repairs on my own ford crown vic, I'm smart and can hang a shower curtain, but I've never done a timing belt on any car and never worked on a volvo.
I need to change a timing belt on a 1999 volvo s70 that's miraculously past due.
Obviously there's the haynes manual, I'll get that.
But can you tell me, before I get my hands oily, whether this is something I could do? Large complement of wrenches and ratchets and sockets at my disposal, standard jack and jack stands, no lift sadly-- but that's on my wishlist when I become a homeowner a few years from now! No engine crane/cherry picker either.
Do I have the equipment to do it?
How much time does it take you to do, and how much time did it when you first did it and were semi-clueless?
Finally, how much did it cost if you took it to a shop? One shop quoted $900... at more like $500, we might cave and not try to do it ourselves.
Alright, the rest of the story: I'm a college senior, going on (as a bachelor's in the fine arts warrants few degrees) into auto repair. I've done a lot of work on my own car, and taken a couple classes thus far; more in the next year to come.
I've got a long time family friend who is a college freshman in need of a car.
He's got an uncle who as a young professional has finally purchased a new car in lieu of his 240,000 mile 1999 volvo S70.
Now I suppose the car would be free ($1), and it had its transmission done 60k miles ago, and has newish tires, but it's also --well-- 240 thousand miles used.
It's also 120k miles overdue for a timing belt!!
A further cost is the realistically $750 cost to ship it TO his college.
We don't have the whole story on the repair history --his uncle does have it, though, so if you have any things to make sure were done, we'll look for them! It might be that, other than neglecting the timing belt, if he did the transmission, recently replaced the battery, has newish tires, and that's what I know of so far, it's been maintained very well in general.
The cost of fixing and shipping this car has to be balanced against the cost of purchasing, for rather more than $1, a different used car in LA with a probably unknown history from a nonrelative, perhaps faced with needing a timing belt or other things anyway.
Are these good solid cars, and is it worth putting $1500 in to keep this one going? 240k is old, but perhaps they can last a little longer?
First of all, as the rest of this post is a novelette: I've done a number of car repairs on my own ford crown vic, I'm smart and can hang a shower curtain, but I've never done a timing belt on any car and never worked on a volvo.
I need to change a timing belt on a 1999 volvo s70 that's miraculously past due.
Obviously there's the haynes manual, I'll get that.
But can you tell me, before I get my hands oily, whether this is something I could do? Large complement of wrenches and ratchets and sockets at my disposal, standard jack and jack stands, no lift sadly-- but that's on my wishlist when I become a homeowner a few years from now! No engine crane/cherry picker either.
Do I have the equipment to do it?
How much time does it take you to do, and how much time did it when you first did it and were semi-clueless?
Finally, how much did it cost if you took it to a shop? One shop quoted $900... at more like $500, we might cave and not try to do it ourselves.
Alright, the rest of the story: I'm a college senior, going on (as a bachelor's in the fine arts warrants few degrees) into auto repair. I've done a lot of work on my own car, and taken a couple classes thus far; more in the next year to come.
I've got a long time family friend who is a college freshman in need of a car.
He's got an uncle who as a young professional has finally purchased a new car in lieu of his 240,000 mile 1999 volvo S70.
Now I suppose the car would be free ($1), and it had its transmission done 60k miles ago, and has newish tires, but it's also --well-- 240 thousand miles used.
It's also 120k miles overdue for a timing belt!!
A further cost is the realistically $750 cost to ship it TO his college.
We don't have the whole story on the repair history --his uncle does have it, though, so if you have any things to make sure were done, we'll look for them! It might be that, other than neglecting the timing belt, if he did the transmission, recently replaced the battery, has newish tires, and that's what I know of so far, it's been maintained very well in general.
The cost of fixing and shipping this car has to be balanced against the cost of purchasing, for rather more than $1, a different used car in LA with a probably unknown history from a nonrelative, perhaps faced with needing a timing belt or other things anyway.
Are these good solid cars, and is it worth putting $1500 in to keep this one going? 240k is old, but perhaps they can last a little longer?
#2
12-26-2010, 11:25 AM
You sound like you have the right tools. You dont really need a lift or anything. It makes it easier but not needed. If you have never done a timing belt thought i dont know that i would attempt it. You can seriously damage the car if you move any of the cam gears or crank gear when putting the new belt on it. Also if i were you i would replace tensioner, idler pulley, as well as water pump. Do the whole job right the first time.
#3
12-26-2010, 06:22 PM
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No major tools needed, you just need to make certain the cams do not move once the belt is removed and triple check the before releasing the tensioner. I have had to reset the tensioner and it is a major PITA. FWIW I charge 750.00 to do the belt and tensioner, but I also have alot lower overhead then most shops, so 900.00 isn't too far ou of range. It is about a day long job. MY 98 S70 has just under 247,000 + on it and is still going strong. The only issue I have had is the steering rack blew out this past spring at 232,000. My only other issue is the clutch has been needing relacemet for about the last 110,000 LOL !! I would also suggest with that mileage dropping an extra 30.00 and replace the motor mount on that side it is most likely weak
Last edited by scotty b; 12-26-2010 at 06:24 PM.
#4
12-26-2010, 08:24 PM
Hi Bern:
Man, do it. I'm as clumsy as they get and I just did out S70 GLT. As for never doing one before, well, if you don't do one, you'll never do any. You have to start somewhere. My first T-BELT was done on my 960, that is still on the road, that has been over a year. And YES DO IT 1ST. I would be afraid to drive the car down the street, let alone across a state line with an old timing belt. I might push one up to 100,000 miles or 10 years but beyone that I would be truely afraid. If it has to be driven, inspect the belt 1st, drive it 50 miles, inspect it again, and by NO MEANS put your foot in it. I purchased my 850 with 78,000 miles on it and it never had a belt change. It was 15 years old and I was terrified all the way home, 1,500 miles.
I can get a shop to do the belt only for $350 to $400. But I would NOT do the belt only, you should do the tensioner roller, the idler roller and the tensioner. I would NOT do the water pump if it is NOT leaking. If you toss those things in the mix at a shop and you will be looking at $800 to $900 ($1,500 at the dealer). The hardest thing about the job to me was removing the tensioner roller bolt and not moving the cams. YES I did move the cams, they were all over the place, HOWEVER, I had a lot of marks and was able to get them lined up when I put the belt on and BEFORE I started the engine (Phew!!!).
Is the car worth the work? That depends on it's condition. If it's smoking, banged up and has other issues, NO. But if it looks good and doesn't have a bunch of stuff wrong with it, I said yes. That car is basically the 850 with over 700 improvements by Volvo (according to them). I have know people with those cars with over 500,000 miles on them. I say go for it, it may last your friend 4 years or more. I had a Volvo with over 400,000 miles on it and it looked almost new.
Here are the best instructions I have found on doing the timing belt.
http://www.happywrenching.com/volvo/...placement.html
I have posted instructions on doing a 960 here. Skip steps 3, 4 and 5:
http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...iming_belt.htm
I posted instructions on doing the front cam seals which shows my marks for making sure you can get things lined back up if the cams move on you. You can actually follow my instructions down to item 12. Be sure to view my note on line 15, it is actually a WARNING:
http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...als_s70glt.htm
I heard there is a different tensioner or something in the newer car, like you have. Not sure if it changes the instructions or not, I doubt it, but you can google it or go to Matthew's Volvo site, he has a ton of instructions.
I plan to post t-belt instructions soon, may not be for a week. My other instructions are here: http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...ips_repair.htm
Have fun.
Man, do it. I'm as clumsy as they get and I just did out S70 GLT. As for never doing one before, well, if you don't do one, you'll never do any. You have to start somewhere. My first T-BELT was done on my 960, that is still on the road, that has been over a year. And YES DO IT 1ST. I would be afraid to drive the car down the street, let alone across a state line with an old timing belt. I might push one up to 100,000 miles or 10 years but beyone that I would be truely afraid. If it has to be driven, inspect the belt 1st, drive it 50 miles, inspect it again, and by NO MEANS put your foot in it. I purchased my 850 with 78,000 miles on it and it never had a belt change. It was 15 years old and I was terrified all the way home, 1,500 miles.
I can get a shop to do the belt only for $350 to $400. But I would NOT do the belt only, you should do the tensioner roller, the idler roller and the tensioner. I would NOT do the water pump if it is NOT leaking. If you toss those things in the mix at a shop and you will be looking at $800 to $900 ($1,500 at the dealer). The hardest thing about the job to me was removing the tensioner roller bolt and not moving the cams. YES I did move the cams, they were all over the place, HOWEVER, I had a lot of marks and was able to get them lined up when I put the belt on and BEFORE I started the engine (Phew!!!).
Is the car worth the work? That depends on it's condition. If it's smoking, banged up and has other issues, NO. But if it looks good and doesn't have a bunch of stuff wrong with it, I said yes. That car is basically the 850 with over 700 improvements by Volvo (according to them). I have know people with those cars with over 500,000 miles on them. I say go for it, it may last your friend 4 years or more. I had a Volvo with over 400,000 miles on it and it looked almost new.
Here are the best instructions I have found on doing the timing belt.
http://www.happywrenching.com/volvo/...placement.html
I have posted instructions on doing a 960 here. Skip steps 3, 4 and 5:
http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...iming_belt.htm
I posted instructions on doing the front cam seals which shows my marks for making sure you can get things lined back up if the cams move on you. You can actually follow my instructions down to item 12. Be sure to view my note on line 15, it is actually a WARNING:
http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...als_s70glt.htm
I heard there is a different tensioner or something in the newer car, like you have. Not sure if it changes the instructions or not, I doubt it, but you can google it or go to Matthew's Volvo site, he has a ton of instructions.
I plan to post t-belt instructions soon, may not be for a week. My other instructions are here: http://www.atthetipwebs.com/technolo...ips_repair.htm
Have fun.
Last edited by rspi; 12-26-2010 at 09:14 PM. Reason: typo/addition
#5
12-26-2010, 08:28 PM
BTW, I don't think any car that has a timing belt over due by 30,000 has been maintained very well. It may look good because it's a well made car that is not falling apart but maintained well, I doubt that.
The other issue that should be checked out is the PCV system or flame trap. Neglect of that can cause major oil leaks.
The other issue that should be checked out is the PCV system or flame trap. Neglect of that can cause major oil leaks.
#6
12-27-2010, 01:58 AM
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Thanks for all the help:
I've saved some of the replies and links for future use :-)
A much better plan now: fly back to LA for this semester, leave the car with the parents in the back yard (no tags, not paying for insurance), and over the summer come back and do the timing belt, everything getting into the timing belt as advised, do the pcv (is that easy to get to, or is it under the intake manifold?) and maybe some other work.
Right now it's just too cold to work on it, and there's not enough time either before winter vacation ends. Probably we'll do it ourselves: what better car to do my first timing belt on, than one that we're seriously contemplating just junking anyway? If there's a serious crewup, scrap the car, return the unused parts to the store, chalk it up to practice.
Tomorrow we're picking up the car --don't worry, driving it just 20miles-- and as importantly, all the records from my friend's uncle. So there will be some months to see what other regular maintenance hasn't been done in 240,000 miles..... I wonder for example when the transmission filter and fluid were last done. Differential would be nice too, why not.
It very probably needs an alternator too, though that's quite easy.
Other particulars to watch out for? Additional maintenance items that can bite you in the *** on this model of volvo if not done?
AND, with the leisure of a few months before we go to town on this car, any internet suppliers that have good prices on volvo? Locally, we have advance, autozone, a napa (further afield), and salvo. Salvo is the most expensive, advance is 2nd, then autozone; but just like grocery stores they each have their loss leaders and their milk cows so it's always a guess who will have the best prices.
But since we're looking at ordering several hundreds of dollars in parts, methinks, by the time the maintenance wishlist is finished, might as well order online from a good source for volvo parts.
I've saved some of the replies and links for future use :-)
A much better plan now: fly back to LA for this semester, leave the car with the parents in the back yard (no tags, not paying for insurance), and over the summer come back and do the timing belt, everything getting into the timing belt as advised, do the pcv (is that easy to get to, or is it under the intake manifold?) and maybe some other work.
Right now it's just too cold to work on it, and there's not enough time either before winter vacation ends. Probably we'll do it ourselves: what better car to do my first timing belt on, than one that we're seriously contemplating just junking anyway? If there's a serious crewup, scrap the car, return the unused parts to the store, chalk it up to practice.
Tomorrow we're picking up the car --don't worry, driving it just 20miles-- and as importantly, all the records from my friend's uncle. So there will be some months to see what other regular maintenance hasn't been done in 240,000 miles..... I wonder for example when the transmission filter and fluid were last done. Differential would be nice too, why not.
It very probably needs an alternator too, though that's quite easy.
Other particulars to watch out for? Additional maintenance items that can bite you in the *** on this model of volvo if not done?
AND, with the leisure of a few months before we go to town on this car, any internet suppliers that have good prices on volvo? Locally, we have advance, autozone, a napa (further afield), and salvo. Salvo is the most expensive, advance is 2nd, then autozone; but just like grocery stores they each have their loss leaders and their milk cows so it's always a guess who will have the best prices.
But since we're looking at ordering several hundreds of dollars in parts, methinks, by the time the maintenance wishlist is finished, might as well order online from a good source for volvo parts.
#7
12-27-2010, 08:17 AM
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FWIW as a shop owner I will REFUSE to change a belt only. I insist on doing the tensioner rollers etc. I don't make ANY extra money on it that way, I just find it to be that important. Particularly on the 944's. I also insist on doing the water pump on those cars, however the n/a Volvo can get away without doing the pump. Just check it for leaks and spin it to make certain it turns freely and there isn't any scraping. FWIW when I did me belts last year I did the pump for the first time in that car. It had around 200,000 at that time and although the pump felt fine and performed fine, when I removed it I found one of the blades was bent. A mystery to me how that happend , but I assume it was done prior to it's install because the blades are pretty damn stout
#8
12-27-2010, 07:27 PM
Good deal Scotty B.
As for parking the car till summer, I would not recommend that. I would take the 4 hours to change the belt and get it done.
Yes the PCV is under the intake. If the car is turbo it has one, if the car is not turbo, it may just have the flame trap.
Why change an altanator? I am old school. Don't fix what aint broke. Timing belts excluded of course. LOL
Get all the parts you can from FCP. They have links all over this site. Awsome service and shipping. You can also get parts for www.ipdusa.com if you can't find what you need at FCP. If you don't see it on their site, call them.
As for parking the car till summer, I would not recommend that. I would take the 4 hours to change the belt and get it done.
Yes the PCV is under the intake. If the car is turbo it has one, if the car is not turbo, it may just have the flame trap.
Why change an altanator? I am old school. Don't fix what aint broke. Timing belts excluded of course. LOL
Get all the parts you can from FCP. They have links all over this site. Awsome service and shipping. You can also get parts for www.ipdusa.com if you can't find what you need at FCP. If you don't see it on their site, call them.
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