after all these years... outside my dads old 242DL`s

Just bought a 2005 XC90 V8 or my wife did... Sweet engine, flawless interior and exterior.. first owner was the wife of a BMWCCA car nut, he took great care of it. I thought I walked into"the" preowned XC90...

The rest of the story......tranny shudders at around 1500 rpm... light throttle accelleration only, pick a gear, seems like the torque converter cannot decide wether to lock up or not. Add a little more throttle and it downshifts no shudder..
Discouraged already... just a tic over 55,000 miles. Took it to the dealer today.. ECM software updated, TCM was up to date...no change.. getting a fluid flush next week...
Second owner, all services were by the selling dealer (group) and up to date and on time.
Can I expect Volvo to cover costs of the transmission given the lousy history of the GM based trannys in the T-6 and a growing list of V8 transmission problems?
I am a rep for a premium German car company.. I would cover in the intrest of customer loyalty and first time brand owner. We have about 7K in equity in it, thinking about blowing it off already.. discusted...Oh our software updates are free.

 

sorry about the rant I should have more tolerance... Dealer is going to bat for us... will let u know how it goes.

 

FWIW... Mine has done that once.. on one occasion, two times about 5 mins apart. But I was towing 3000lb in stop/go traffic, and it was very hot (high 90s). Low gear shudder, trans could not decide whether to shift or not. I was worried, had my trans fluid checked, its fine. Talked to other guys who tow, and heard thats normal- recommended to be more decisive with throttle inputs. Also helps to put gear selector in manumatic, then YOU choose when to shift. This happened in late July; has not happened again. Owned just over a year, 2005 V8, 85k miles, also a printinely maintained single-owner car. (I know you werent towing; just contributing my narrow experience).

 

thanks for the input, i can duplicate the shudder in manual mode as well always araound 1200 to 1800 rpm any gear.. with slight pedal input it drops a gear and its gone... hope to have full diagnosis and a decision about who pays and what tommorrow...

 

Okay here is where we are.. Volvo said no assistance whatsoever,, nothing, nada. So after a quote of over $700.00 to flush it at the dealer to attempt to stop the shudder and after paying for a ECM update I decided to do it myself. I am an ASE master tech of over 30 years in the biz..
I flushed the trans using a modified car battery powered electric motor driven pump kit designed for flushing power steering systems... no dipstick on this transmission.
Removed both cooler lines from the radiator and let the fluid run out, then flushed the cooler cavity with an evaporative type solvent to wash out any sludge or debris by spraying into the upper hole of the radiator cooler line hole. Let it dry out or assist with low volume low pressure air.
The lower cooling line on the radiator is the delivery line to the cooler and the upper line is return to the transmission.
The pump delivery side of the tool went on the upper line and the lower line of the cooler went into a five gallon bucket.
The fresh fluid line from the new transmission fluid went onto the upper line at the radiator.
Primed the pump and started the new fluid delivery process for about 3 minutes or 2 quarts at the delivery rate I had.
Started the already "warm" engine, let it idle, and ran the pump pushing new fluid in until the fluid from the transmission was clean.
I ran 15 quarts of fluid just be sure. The fluid coming out was dark brown, not burned smelling..there is hope ahhhh...
Here is the critical part.. proper level at the right temperature. After filling let the engine warm a bit running in park. As the transmission fluid warms up it will expand and the level will rise..

There is a drain plug and level check plug (40mm torx) in the middle of the drain plug on the case on the bottom of the transmission. This is the one you want to remove to have the transmission fluid seek its own level. Not the large one.

With a scan tool that has the capability to measure and monitor transmission fluid temperature remove the center plug when the transmission temperature reaches the prescribed temperature the fuid will only dribble out at the correct level. If it is overfilled the transmission fluid will run out of the hole, if under filled nothing will come out and more fluid is needed. When it is just dribbling out reinstall the plug and you are done. If nothing comes out add fluid while it is running until it comes out of the drain plug hole, let it slow to a dribble and you are done. You also may want to have the engine running and move the shifter with your foot on the brake pedal from park to drive to reverse and back to park a couple of times to expel any air bubbles through the valve body... Keep in mind that timing can be critical here... don’t wander off or answer the phone, stay attentive and don’t let the fluid get too hot or you will end up under filling the transmission.. too cool and you will end up over filling it.. Just as bad. If you don’t have a scan tool I think it may be okay to use an infrared digital temperature gun to shoot the fluid and case around the drain hole to get it close then get to a service facility close by who can measure the true temp as the TCM sees it to do a final level adjustment. I do not know where the fluid temperature sensor is actually located in this particular transmission. If you go to your technician to have the proper level checked be prepaired to wait a long time or drop the car overnight as the the process needs to be started when the transmission fluid is cold.

In my case after the flush I had no fluid coming out so I used the pump to add two more quarts, let it cool awhile and did the procedure over again. After it self leveled I was only low about one quart. You results may vary... If you do not have access to an electric driven pump to add fluid you could do it the gravity way by using a large container for fluid and a hose to the upper cooling line from the bottom of your new fluid contaner with a means to shut off the flow but it would need to be suspended somehow above the level of the upper line.

The results... My shudder is gone. Shifts are now positive without the double up shift feeling it had during up shifts. It shifts cleanly and positively, much smoother and quicker. I also noticed at steady state cruise at 40mph on a flat level road when the transmission has "chosen" 5th gear the tach is now showing about 1200 rpm instead of 1500 to 1800 rpm before "slippage" reduced, with the torque converter in or out of lock up mode. Sixth gear gear is now selected by the TCM sooner as indicated on the speedometer.

My wife says she can feel something at around 20mph.. I can’t yet but she is so tuned into this that she may be only feeling road bumps.. Time will tell.

The fluid. When I was draining the fluid it was definitely NOT full synthetic type fluid. I used Toyota brand Type IV fluid which also is not a full synthetic but is a J3309 spec fluid used in their Asian Warner transmissions. A whopping $5.49 a quart. If the fluid comes out looking a like a brown/reddish colored milkshake test it for glycol contamination.. or test it anyway.. a good idea. If glycol positive there was or is most likely a problem with the radiator..you have only bought yourself some time as water/glycol will end up ruining the clutchpacks, bands, or whatever in the transmission.
I may do this again in about a thousand miles and use a J3309 exceeding spec full synthetic type fluid... Maybe the same type fluid, have not decided yet, professional experiences please.

Why was my fuid level low? Who knows, factory fill was low, the last servicing technicain during checking left it running too long.. someone checked the level too hot, technician wanders off to have lunch, smoke a cigarette, or texting.. with the engine still running, lack of training, qualifications... etc..and drained too much off, transmission eating algee? LOL.. No external leaks.. but I definately think my problem was due to the transmission cavitating because the fluid was too low and the age and condition of the fluid itself.

Final thoughts... Lifetime factory fluid... ? B.S. Lifetime to them or any such manufacture claims in my opinion means the duration of you original warranty and that’s all. I don`t know why this trend has started with so many car makers or tranmission manufactors..yes synthetic fuids last longer and perform better in some applications and are required by some but no fluid is lifetime and this transmission has no replacable transmission filter at the service level.The official Volvo owners warranty and service records information book states for 2005 on page 62 under Maintenance Service Operations, Automatic transmission fluid level, check/adjust.... NEVER!..unless... **footnote** states... **Check automatic transmission level only if an external leak is identified. Volvo recommends change automatic transmission fluid every 52,500 miles/84,000 kilometers, only on vehicles used for towing, or when a message displays in the instrument panel text window.
In my humble opinion do it even if you do not tow. Definately if you are not the origianl owner and the car has a tow hitch installed..Lets think about external leak for a moment...
An external leak could have also been caused by fluid loss if your radiator was ever replaced due to failure, removal for any reason, body work, repairs, etc... And the fluid level was never rechecked correctly...

The whole process after I figured out how to use my adapted flush kit and connecting the lines including proper level adjustment only took about 20 minutes moving 15 quarts "through" the system.

I hope this helps someone out there... I may have only put a band aid on a bullet wound and the damage is done, time will tell. In the mean time we are going to budget for a new transmission just in case as we plan to drive the wheels off this one and hopefully display a high mileage badge on the front grill someday like the Volvo`s of old, but it take strict and disciplined adherence to proper and timely care. This a really nice car, we love it.

If I do end up needing a new transmission I think I will install it myself.

 

Hi there,
Have the same issue for an XC90 V8 2005. Was wondering if you have had any shudder recently? Want to follow your advice.
Thanks

 

Thanks for the elaborate description of the procedure. I decided it is too complex for me.
My problem is that when hot my tranny misses the shift from 3rd to 4th gear.
It ends up with no gear selected and my engine revving up to the red-line. The revs go down to 1500 the next gear kicks in.
This does not makes you feel very comfy and safe. My mileage is very high 355.000 KM's. And I think the transmission oil has never been changed. So after reading this story I think I will get it changed soon. I noticed that there are no filters to change, is that the reason to flush the system with 15 quarts? I wonder how the car is doing now since the post is already from 2011.
I bought this one from the first owner at 342.000 KM's in June 2012. So it has been to Italy (hot!) and to France (less hot) from the Netherlands. Apart from this flaw the rest of the cars works pretty well. Engine runs great. Uses no oil whatsoever.
Thanks for any input on this subject.
Rgds Mark

 

It's the Torque Converter Lockup Clutch. I have an 2005 XC90 V8 with > 120K miles. I have now burned out 2 torque converters towing with the vehicle so I am intimately familiar with this issue. The 'failure' always manifests as a shudder that starts 1500-1900 RPM 2nd-->3rd shift, then expands to other shifts. The shudder is also observable in 'manual' shift mode in the same RPM range under light to moderate load. The issue is the friction coupling in the torque converter, which burns out, because it's the weakest link in the system. As it fails, the friction coupling goes from normal to slipping AND also 'engaging too early' and slipping, and this is where the shudder is felt. While I have exacerbated this issue and caused early fails with heavy towing, this vehicle is suspect to this issue regardless of load, as evidenced in forums where this issue is seen in non-towing vehicles. The ONLY fix is replacing the torque converter with a rebuilt one (or a full tranny pkg from volvo with a torque converter). The Tranny is still fine however and a full job is not necessary, and a good tranny shop can swap out the converter for under $2K, but if your tranny has >120K miles, spend the extra $2k and have them 'rebuild' it as well.

That said, and knowing full well despite Volvo's claims, this car just can't tow because of the weak torque converter clutch, I am going 'all in' on this car (cuz I love it and it tows amazingly) and I am having my tranny shop rewire the transmission to give me a switch in the dash to circumvent the torque converter clutch apply solenoid. Essentially, this will give me a 'tow-haul' mode where there is never any lockup clutch apply, so nothing burns out, and I also get the added benefit of increased torque thru the converter's liquid coupling at all RPMs (theoretically..) Yes, this will EAT GAS. but Gas is cheaper than yet another torque converter...or a new tow vehicle I don't want as much as this luxury beast.

So, car goes in this weekend for the service next week and I hope to have some good news to report back in a couple weeks regarding the vehicle's performance with this 'tow/haul' mode engaged.

 

Hi Yeeehaa, Thanks for the post. So far looks like the most sensible response to this issue that I`ve heard. What is essential to rebuilt the tranny? Is there any kit that you recommend? Thanks

 

OK job is done. As noted, my Xmission Shop (Marsh Transmission, Tualatin OR) installed a switch and a dummy solenoid as a bypass to the in-transmission torque converter clutch apply solenoid. In the 'on' state the switch routes the computer signal directly to the transmission and the car drives normally. In the 'off' state the switch routes the computer signal to the dummy solenoid, the computer thinks the clutch is being applied, but in fact it is not. The purpose of the dummy solenoid is to prevent a code for 'converter open' - if we just cut the signal to the solenoid the computer would throw a converter open code immediately, it does not.

Positive Driving Behavior: I have put about 500 miles on the car, not towing, in the 'off' state where there is no physical clutch apply. I prefer driving the car this way, there is a nicer throttle response, and apparent torque through higher RPMs, since the converter spins up when it is not clutch locked from engine to transmission. If you are familiar with how this car drives, for example, normally in 5th gear on the highway at ~ 2000 RPM, if you apply more gas, the engine gets louder but feels sluggish in response and you gain acceleration slowly due to lockup, OR given enough gas the car shifts to 4th for power at higher RPM. With the switch off, throttle response in 5th gear is appreciable - you do not need to shift for an RPM increase and resulting accelleration: you have power at that gear in reserve. In daily driving I have not noticed an appreciable loss in MPG, so I figure it is less than 1MPG on this vehicle which already eats gas.

Complications:
The 'converter open' code is not the only code. Apparently the computer looks for lockup or at least some synchronization of engine and tranny RPMs in 3rd thru 5th gear. IF i drive >3000 RPMs in 3rd gear for more than a minute OR > 2000 RPMs in 5th gear for more than a minute, the car throws a 'converter stuck open or poor lockup function'. In other words, even though it sees a working solenoid, it sees the solenoid is NOT doing its job and throws a different engine code. Nominally this is just an annoyance, it is telling me something I already know. HOWEVER, this code overrides and locks out the torque converter clutch COMPLETELY so that the switch no longer works in the 'on' state. The vehicle must be turned off and restarted with the switch 'on' for it to work 'normally' again. Generally this is not an issue, I don't need to switch between driving modes, but it is something the xmission shop is looking into, and I have ordered a bluetooth OBD2 dongle to see whether my 'shotgun' rider can clear this code via smartphone when I drive.

The RPMs do a little 'unlocked dance' when you pull off the throttle. Normally with lockup if you are at 2000-3000 RPMs on the hwy and you take your foot off the gas, the RPMs stay right where they are. With the torque converter clutch unlocked, the RPMs dip quickly to ~ 1000 or lower and the computer recognizes this and applies some fuel to keep from stalling. This means however that you may be at 1500 RPMS at a time when lockup would be >2000, so reapplying throttle means you need to rev the engine back up and it does so really quickly AND you have the additional torque from higher RPMs as if you were in a lower gear. Takes a little getting used to.

That's all for now, I'll past again when I get any new info about the codes, and after I try towing the big trailer again.

 

Hi,
Thanks for the update. My tranny is still not shifting to its full potential. Just had it flushed, and that gave some improvement but did not fix it completely.

I never knew that my revs did not go down when I lift off the throttle because of the lock-up. Learned something new!!

I still have the impression that the autobox sometimes runs hot. When the temperature rises it results in missing the 4th gear on the upshift. Which results in revving the engine to 6500 rpm. Not good. When hot, I just use the manual mode of the gear box. And when shifting from 3rd to 4th I lift off the throttle to ease the gear in. When in gear I can apply throttle again.

My guess is that some gaskets have worn and I need a rebuild of the box. Again my Volvo XC90 truck has done over 420.000 Km's. So it is entitled so some wear and tear.

Rgds Mark

 

I had a similar experience about 18 months ago. Did a tranny flush as instructed in this and other forums. This helped as the shudder was minimized but it did reappear --just not as bad.


I bought the Autel MaxiDiag Elite to troubleshoot some other problems and found what seemed like 100 of intermittent failures. I cleared all these codes and now the transmission does not slip at all and the car runs great. I did this about 6 months ago and the car still runs great