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this first post i copied from a thread i made in the new members area, but i will continue this actual thread with pics/info as i go
bought my first Volvo ever today. it's an 87 240GL, dash shows 68k but isn't rolling, and carfax/title is exempt, however last registered mileage shown was 65k in 1997, so who knows really. it starts up and runs, but it's far from perfect, but i only paid $550 and wasn't expecting a perfect car, nor did i believe it is original mileage even if the odometer was working. clean title, and from what i can see just a little rust on the drivers floor board. all the rockers, around doors trunk lid etc is 100% perfect, no rust as it should be here in Florida.
anyways, haven't done anything to it yet other than take it home, but so far i like it. i bought it for really 1 specific reason; just to be a daily-ish point A to B car, of which i can register with classic auto insurance like my Jeep. So since it's 30 years old, it's only ~$100 a year, which is virtually nothing to insure a car for the whole year. I currently daily drive my 04 f350 dually most of the time, jeep in between, but i wanted a smaller car to drive when i don't feel like (or can't even fit) driving my dually. My 87 wrangler checks that box for me, but it's still a jeep, and i wanted an actual car. Even if i put a/c in my jeep, and even with my hardtop and full hard doors with glass, it still feels like a jeep, and i wanted the "feel" of a normal car/suv/truck, if that makes any sense lol.
there are a few wiring issues under the hood i need to figure out, someone on here will likely know quicker than me researching and tracing wires, so i took a few quick pics of that. it seems to not start with those 2 smaller red wires not hooked to the battery, it just keeps trying to start like you were out of gas, but when i put those 2 wires back to the + on the batt, it will start. like i said, maybe someone knows what they may be connected to from the pics and seeing roughly what stock harness they are going into. i can get more detailed pics/info later on as well.
To start though, I'm going to just do things to it that won't cost me any money, like cleaning it inside and out, and cleaning up the engine bay really good. Then I'll move onto checking/changing the fluids, make sure it's running good, then register it (and get new tires, the tires on it now are completely dry rotted and not safe at all to drive on). The 4th stock wheel is in the trunk so I do have that, which i will be keeping, i like the stock wheels.
overall i like the car so far, i love how they look without a doubt. i always liked these, i used to ride in one every single day when i carpooled to school back in 6th-8th grade, and i always liked them for some reason.
This was a screenshot of the listing
exterior. body like i said is pretty good, said it was wrecked in the front but fenders and hood don't appear to be dented.
interior is pretty clean. i will be taking the carpet out and pressure washing it like i've done on pretty much all my cars when i buy them, just to get it as clean as possible outside the car. i have a pet peeve with nasty/dirty carpet, so this is a must lol. pressure washing carpet usually makes it a night and day difference once it's done and dry. the seats are pretty clean, ill just use my little hot water extractor on them to give them a quick clean.
Here are the 3 pics of the wiring i was talking about. like i said, i can get more/better pics if anyone may possibly know what the issue is.
so there's these 2, one lighter red and one darker.
the lighter red one goes back towards the passenger side firewall, and into a piece of wire loom/taped up wires. you can see in the full engine pic a couple pics up where it runs.
then the darker one goes into another loom/taped up wires, but it's closer to right behind the battery, just under where my finer is pointing.
Hi, 217 and welcome to the forum. It looks like you've got yourself a project to work on. I can see several items to correct ASAP if you want to make it register-able for the street. You are missing the windshield wiper motor (Goes into that hole on the passenger side firewall) and maybe some of the linkage; the headlights, front position and turnsignals, and several of the bulbs and covers in the rear taillight section.
You should be aware that the year '87 was during the "biodegradable" wiring harness period. You have some issues there as shown by the bypasses made in newer red wiring by someone in an attempt to get the car roadworthy. Any "cleaning" that you do under the hood increases the chances of more of that friable insulation breaking apart and exposing potential shorts, or of having water intrusion, again causing a short.
And speaking of water intrusion, is that mold and mildew spots on the headliner? I don't know if those can be cleaned. And the real taillights can be affected by water intrusion, also. That may account for the surgical intervention on the clusters. And did you take out the radio, or is that another unfinished project by the PO? There is a little red wire that goes to the instrument cluster that could be disturbed and part of your no-start/run problem.
the red wire with the fuse holder, thats the fuel injection system power. I would replace that fuse holder with a waterproof one bought from a marine supply store, as the tiewrap around yours suggests its flakey.
there should be a red wire going from battery + to the 'positive terminal' on the left fender, near the relays. this is where lots of other + stuff is connected.
that other red wire that goes over to the right side of the firewall, no idea. guessing its a bodge to solve some other problem.
Hi, 217 and welcome to the forum. It looks like you've got yourself a project to work on. I can see several items to correct ASAP if you want to make it register-able for the street. You are missing the windshield wiper motor (Goes into that hole on the passenger side firewall) and maybe some of the linkage; the headlights, front position and turnsignals, and several of the bulbs and covers in the rear taillight section.
You should be aware that the year '87 was during the "biodegradable" wiring harness period. You have some issues there as shown by the bypasses made in newer red wiring by someone in an attempt to get the car roadworthy. Any "cleaning" that you do under the hood increases the chances of more of that friable insulation breaking apart and exposing potential shorts, or of having water intrusion, again causing a short.
And speaking of water intrusion, is that mold and mildew spots on the headliner? I don't know if those can be cleaned. And the real taillights can be affected by water intrusion, also. That may account for the surgical intervention on the clusters. And did you take out the radio, or is that another unfinished project by the PO? There is a little red wire that goes to the instrument cluster that could be disturbed and part of your no-start/run problem.
thanks, i look forward to learning a lot here, i picked this over other forums as this appeared to be the most active. i def have a project that's for sure! as far as all the things to fix to make it road worthy, i will little by little fix those, but i'm not in a rush to register it and start driving it, so I have time.
on the wiring, i can't believe i forgot about that. i had read about that like a year ago, and it didn't even cross my mind when buying this car...kind of upset, but it's already done. what do most people do when they have a car with said wiring? do most just wait until something breaks, or do they fix it all before anything shorts out? i was looking last night on some site, forgot which, but i saw that they make new harnesses you can buy i think, unless i read it wrong. In your opinion, do you normally tell people to not even bother with looking at years with the BD wiring, or are they still worth it for the right price?
the headliner i believe is mold, probably from the windows being down, but i'm going to wipe it down and see what it looks like after. the seats and carpet surprisingly don't indicate a ton of water constantly coming in, so hopefully that wasn't the case. like i said in my first post, i will be pulling the seats and carpet out to clean the carpet out completely clean the carpet, so ill be able to inspect everything underneath it for rust/water/wiring issues.
One thing i'd like to do ASAP before anything else is get the windows up since it's outside. i currently have a tarp over it as none of the windows work, doesn't even appear to have power (no sounds or anything). i was just reading that it's not too hard to swap to manual windows, which eventually i think i'd do, just to i never have to worry about them breaking. but for now i need to figure out a way to get them up. could the bio wiring be a reason why they may not work also?
oh, on the front end, does it look like i'm missing anything to put the headlights/grille back in, or do those things bolt/attach right to the car? is there some sort of header panel or anything that goes on before the headlights and grille do? there's a lot of random parts in the trunk that i'm going to go through later.
Originally Posted by pierce
the red wire with the fuse holder, thats the fuel injection system power. I would replace that fuse holder with a waterproof one bought from a marine supply store, as the tiewrap around yours suggests its flakey.
there should be a red wire going from battery + to the 'positive terminal' on the left fender, near the relays. this is where lots of other + stuff is connected.
that other red wire that goes over to the right side of the firewall, no idea. guessing its a bodge to solve some other problem.
yea i will replace that and i want to route it a little better so its not just dangling there. thanks for the heads up. i got my work cut out for me that's for sure!
87 was the last year of 'biodegradable' wiring, and they switched mid year, so late production 87's are OK.
if the car is worth it, you find a new harness, maybe from an 88 (87/88 are identical electrically). or you cobble it and fix problems as they occur, but every time something disturbs the harness likely more erratic random problems will show up.
87 was the last year of 'biodegradable' wiring, and they switched mid year, so late production 87's are OK.
if the car is worth it, you find a new harness, maybe from an 88 (87/88 are identical electrically). or you cobble it and fix problems as they occur, but every time something disturbs the harness likely more erratic random problems will show up.
darn. well i guess i will play it by ear. is changing out the harness with one from an 88 incredible hard? let me go look what month my car was made, although it appears to not be a late 87 if those red wires are there already from a PO.
basically, disconnect the battery, then lay out the new harness next to the old one, swap plugs one at a time, being sure not to tie knots around the old one so you can extract it once you've swapped everything. I'd suggest putting a little squirt of DeOxIT on each connector before assembling. note the harness goes through the firewall to connect to the ECU thats mounted in the passenger footwell, also the fuel pump relay there.
nice. i will look into that for sure. probably won't be something i do right away, but i think i will eventually consider doing it once i get the bare minimum stuff fixed, get new tires, and get it registered and on the road. then i could park it and swap harnesses and drive my f350 while i'm working on it.
on the power windows, where would be the best place for me to start in an attempt to get all 4 of them up? i want to do that as soon as i possibly can so i can take the tarp off of the top, it's hard to work on it right now since i have to put the tarp back on every time i'm finished lol. don't have my garage yet, hopefully soon i can finally build it, but that's another story haha.
edit- is the sunroof manual? i would assume it is looking at the little crank handle, but it won't open or pop up when turned in either direction. the handle doesn't even turn and i don't want to force it because it definitely feels like i am going to break it if i continue to force it.
Be sure to check the fuse box, find the fuse that controls the windows(BTW, it also protects the A/C system). Ensure that it isn't blown, and while you are there clean the contacts of all the other fuses there also; just rotating them between their contacts may be enough. If you have the cover to the fuse box , it will tell you which one. Get one from a JY on one of your many trips coming up for parts if it is missing. Get yourself a manual, too. the Bently is a good one. If you pull the door panels, you should be able to manually wrestle the windows up. I'd bet my next paycheck that you also have a sunroof leak; that would explain the mold on the headliner. Check inventory of your local Pick and Pulls and import JY's for parts. BTW, I hope you have at least double what you spent on this car to get it into shape; 'cause that's what it will take.
Re: the BD wiring- See Dave Barton's Harness site for your options. Realize that the original purchasers of these cars for the most part have given up on trying to live with intermittent electrical issues that leave them stranded and have trouble passing smog/safety tests and sold/donated to charity these cars that end up at JY's and then the crusher. There remains a few of us that try to keep these desirable cars on the road. We're on this forum and Turbobricks and prowling the JY's and craigslist for parts.
The ceramic 'euro' fuses sold in American car parts stores by Bussman etc are *JUNK*. soft plastic insulators, cheap tin elements
I strongly recommend replacing ALL the fuses with Flosser brand brass/copper fuses. You can find these on ebay, amazon, and at various places like IPDusa. The originals are 100 to the box (see the 8A below) but there's lots of resellers who rebag these in saner quantities. Just avoid the guys who put them all in a wrapper made of clear packing tape, as that makes them sticky.
Clean the fuse holder contacts with a soft pink pencil eraser, thats less abrasive on the metal plating than most things you can use.
reason is, the original tin plated fuses react with the contacts and corrode. and the tin just rots and crumbles with age. brass and copper are more compatible with the contact metals.
put just a dab of silicone electric grease on the tips of the fuses, that will keep the blues away longer.
My early 90s Mercedes use the same fuses as do older VW's.... Part of the recommended maintenance on any 80s/90s Mercedes is replacing all the ceramic fuses with copper.
Be sure to check the fuse box, find the fuse that controls the windows(BTW, it also protects the A/C system). Ensure that it isn't blown, and while you are there clean the contacts of all the other fuses there also; just rotating them between their contacts may be enough. If you have the cover to the fuse box , it will tell you which one. Get one from a JY on one of your many trips coming up for parts if it is missing. Get yourself a manual, too. the Bently is a good one. If you pull the door panels, you should be able to manually wrestle the windows up. I'd bet my next paycheck that you also have a sunroof leak; that would explain the mold on the headliner. Check inventory of your local Pick and Pulls and import JY's for parts. BTW, I hope you have at least double what you spent on this car to get it into shape; 'cause that's what it will take.
Re: the BD wiring- See Dave Barton's Harness site for your options. Realize that the original purchasers of these cars for the most part have given up on trying to live with intermittent electrical issues that leave them stranded and have trouble passing smog/safety tests and sold/donated to charity these cars that end up at JY's and then the crusher. There remains a few of us that try to keep these desirable cars on the road. We're on this forum and Turbobricks and prowling the JY's and craigslist for parts.
sorry for not responding quick like I was previously, got a little busy the last few days. yea i plan to put some time and money into it, although not so much money to make it perfect, just so it's pretty reliable as well as fixing the obvious things like the headlights, tires and things like that. there's a manual in the trunk, i forgot what brand/model it was, i will look next time i go out there, but I'm 99% sure it's the one you mentioned. i just googled a pic of "Bentley repair manual" and it looks familiar as to the one i saw last time i was looking in the Volvo.
Originally Posted by pierce
The ceramic 'euro' fuses sold in American car parts stores by Bussman etc are *JUNK*. soft plastic insulators, cheap tin elements
I strongly recommend replacing ALL the fuses with Flosser brand brass/copper fuses. You can find these on ebay, amazon, and at various places like IPDusa. The originals are 100 to the box (see the 8A below) but there's lots of resellers who rebag these in saner quantities. Just avoid the guys who put them all in a wrapper made of clear packing tape, as that makes them sticky.
Clean the fuse holder contacts with a soft pink pencil eraser, thats less abrasive on the metal plating than most things you can use.
reason is, the original tin plated fuses react with the contacts and corrode. and the tin just rots and crumbles with age. brass and copper are more compatible with the contact metals.
put just a dab of silicone electric grease on the tips of the fuses, that will keep the blues away longer.
My early 90s Mercedes use the same fuses as do older VW's.... Part of the recommended maintenance on any 80s/90s Mercedes is replacing all the ceramic fuses with copper.
thanks for the tips, I will go ahead and order some of those fuses and get them all swapped out as well as clean the contacts. i think the cover is in the glove box or trunk, it's not installed but i believe i saw it the other day. if not, i can look for one online or at a junkyard (next week i plan to go to a junkyard near me and see what they have), as well as i can look up the fuse diagram online and make sure everything is the correct amp fuses so i don't reinstall new fuses with the wrong ratings.
does anyone know a quick way i can temporarily put 12v to the window switch to see if i can get the windows up? i'm thinking if i manually put power directly to the switch it may work. that's my biggest concern right now, i need to get them up so i can remove the tarp from it.
next i think i'm going to order tires since they're fairly cheap being 14" tires. should i stick with the stock size, or go a little bigger (as big as possible without rubbing anywhere)? i see mixed comments on that, some like the stock size, others go with a larger tire. any suggestions on that would be appreciated. but the windows are more important lol.
i did check the fuse(s), replaced with different ones, cleaned the contacts, and tried 2 different drivers door window switches. the power door locks all work like a charm, just nothing on any window
ok, lets start with the drivers door, lift the switch panel up enough that you can get to the switch connections. each switch has 2 pins on one side, labeled pin 1 and 2, these go to the window motor, and three pins on the other side labeled 3,4,5, 4 is +12 in, 3&5 are ground in. when you press the window switch one way, pins 3 is connected to 1 & 4 is connected to 2, when you press it the other way, pins 4 & 5 are connected to 1 & 2... because 3,4,5 are -,+,-, this reverses the voltage to the motor.
start with the drivers own window switch, the red wire to pin 4 should be 'hot' when the ignition is on, and the black wire to pin 5 and 3 should ground. if you don't have any power there, then the problem is upstream, probably the headlight power relay which is supposed to come on with the ignition and provides power to the windows... this relay is behind the center console, I believe. if you can locate the relay and remove it from its socket, and at the socket jumper pin 30 (brown) to pin 87 (red), this should power the windows, and the drivers door buttons should work. if they do, odds are pretty good the relay is bad.
if you just want to put the windows up and there's no power there at all, I would use a 12V battery (I have a motorcycle sized battery I use for stuff like this), and a couple jumper wires. hook battery + to the pin 4 the red wire goes to on that drivers door switch, and battery - to the black wire that goes to pins 3 and 5, and all the buttons should work up/down.
or, if you have to unplug the switches to access the wires, each switch has 3 pins on one side, and 2 pins on the other side. the 2 pins, which should be pins 1 & 2, those go to the motor. connect + to one of these, - to the other, if the motor goes the wrong way, reverse + and -.
i figured stock tires were the best option, that's what i was leaning towards myself. I will check out those tires, thanks for the suggestion!
and a major thanks for the post regarding the wiring for the windows. tomorrow when i'm done working that will be the first thing i try, and i hope that i'm able to get them rolled up. i have an extra 12v car battery laying around that i can use. once they're up and i can stop worrying about water leaking in (not to mention i want to lock the car so no one can get in, it's currently in my backyard though), but once they're up, i can then continue to diagnose why they're not working in the first place. tomorrow i think i'm going to have a friend put a water hose on the sunroof so I can check that for leaks as well as around all the glass on the car (once the windows are up). if there are any leaks, i will try and track those down as well.
i started messing with the headlights up front, but it looks like the one's that were in the trunk from the PO have some of the tabs/threaded rods or whatever is on the back of them, broken/missing so i will likely just order a new/used pair online, they're probably cheap enough.
by the way, there's an 89 i believe 240 just like mine on Craigslist about 20 minutes from me, for parts, asking $500. she said it is wrecked, but motor and all that is good as it was running when it was recently wrecked. i'm waiting for pics, she said she thinks it has manual windows (i think it's her husbands that's why she wasn't sure over the phone about the windows), but i'm considering making an offer less than her $500 asking price to get parts from it. i could get the wiring harness from that right?! if it indeed does have manual windows, i could swap those into mine and not worry about power windows ever again. but yea, still waiting for pics from her before i decide. even at $500, i'm sure i could get the parts i need from it, and probably part out the rest either locally or on here and make most if not all my money back. then just scrap the body panels that are no good/not repairable. i'm hoping it's a decent car and i can make an offer on it and bring it home. i really want to get my volvo in decent shape, and eventually do a really good restoration on it to make it look REALLY good. i will probably keep this car for the long run, i've always loved these things and i'm happy that i finally got one lol.
I was JUST looking at those exact ones right before I read your post LOL!
I have had a few sets of DEPO lights in the past, and currently have them on my f350, and they are the best aftermarket lights i've ever used. they really do stay clear better than OEM. i'll be ordering a set of those for sure, as well as some all clear side markers/blinkers.
10-21-2017, 05:43 PM
my $550 budget 1987 240
