This is interesting about the redblock. Before I bought a second motorcycle I was thinking of selling the Flying Vee in favour of a 3.5 litre Renault Skyline. Placed an ad on Buy online and sell with NZ's #1 auction & classifieds site | Trade Me showing a few pics of my gorgeous American g/f posing with it while on holiday to show what it meant to me. Eventually I took onboard one very clear message from a respondent.. "Don't sell that car."

The guy seemed to know something I didn't referring to it as the last of the RWDs. Now you put the non-interference aspect into context I am beginning to think there are probably even more reasons for keeping it. Also it was a gift from my brother who bought it off his neighbour. Ivan is a fastidious Volvo crazy Air New Zealand pilot and it is still tip-top.

Googled the redblock and yes I am aware that mine has a red block. Running those 2 words together gives the impression of cult status for some reason. A friend tells me the engines can be tuned to perform to a significantly higher level.. not sure if that is about the block however.

Yes it would be nice to have that facility and skill to take advantage of all those vehicles with lower book values than the cost of replacing battered valves and pistons. As that is not me I have to rely on very diligent maintenance. Next step is to switch from Fuchs semi synthetic to an American oil for Eurocars. Price List ($NZ inc GST) - 01 Motor Oil - 5W40 European Synthetic Oil

My research shows that their motorcycle oil is the best there is and that is a big deal. It is not easy to make a good motorcycle oil. First up it needs to survive mashing from the gear box and then you have to avoid molybdenum as it wrecks wet clutches.

 

re: oils, I would use any major brand 10W30 in a B230F. if its a turbo, you want to use a full synthetic like Mobil One, also 10W30. I would only use a heavier 40 wt oil if you are in an area where the temperatures are consistently very hot and never get cold (or you change back to a 10W30 for winter).

 

I am in a very temperate part of the world, Gisborne, first city of the sun on the east coast of New Zealand. Winters are mild and summer temps are mostly mid to late 20s so certainly not consistently hot. Yes it is a turbo so fully synthetic is also the way to go. Thanks for those thoughts.

 

ah, I'm on the left coast of north america, at 37 north latitude, we also have very mild weather all year around... lows of 10-15c and highs of 20-25c are typical year around. it occasionally hits 30c on during a "heat wave". but a dozen km inland, summer highs can hit 40c, ouch.

oh, and if you can get them, use Mann oil filters (or, of course, Volvo brand). Mann makes the Volvo ones, I get them mail order, 3 at a time. because I drive rather hard, I like to change my oil and filter every 5000 miles / 8000 km even using synth.

 

Thinks?? the left.. now that would be the Californ-aye-yay coast (that almost came out as Californ-aye-cate). I drove through some of that part of the country in 1991. Los Angeles to San Fran in fact, staying in the Penthouse suite of the Ritz Carlton http://aerialarchives.photoshelter.c...000lT6OvH5OPDM. My NZ mate's American girlfriend was an employee and got us a concessionary rate. Curiously enough we did the trip in her Volvo.. lights flash.. so that is where it started.

I have been using Fram filters.. because I can get them. Bought an Aussie Ryco on trademe once but got the model wrong and so stuck with what the supplier up the road was selling ever mindful of an internet review where they were rated very poorly. Will look into the Manns thanks. Maybe include some in my next US order from Pelican.. hoping to add a radiator reservoir to the cart at some point.

 

I tried doing a quick answer, my post got appended to a wrong place, here is my 5cents to the speaker thread:
I installed Polk MM521s 5.25 inch speakers in the back and db651 6.5 inch speakers in the front. They both fit with the original speaker cover over top of it, so there is no visible /obvious mod to the car door.
Going with the larger 6.5 inch makes a huge improvement to the low end. If enyone is intrerested, let me know I will add instructions/pictures for the front door installation. ---End Quote--- Hey IC53.. I for one am certainly interested in an alternative approach. (The reason I own 2 motorbikes.. they both teach me different things). Bearing in mind that these speakers are past their use by date I am sure their will be a lot of other Volvo owners who appreciate your contribution in times to come.. maybe even resident expert Pierce will take something from it :-)

 

I have the dxi650 in the front doors. [ not db650].. a 6.5 inch speaker.

Here are the basic verbal instructions, I will se how I can upload pictures later, I see that there is a size limit, so my current pictures do not upload.

The original Volvo speaker in the front door is custom 6 inch speaker. The back door is 5.25 inch.

I wanted more bass, without getting a subwooffer. After carefull measurements, I figured that I can fit a 5x7 or a 6.5 inch speaker in the door, the 6.5 inch has a larger woofer area then 5x7 so I decided to go with 6.5 inch.

Here is the basic concept:
1/ The speaker is istalled on the back of the door panel, so the tweeter does not intrefere with the original speaker cover.
2/ I cut out a template from a cardboard representing the face of the speaker: opening and mounting holes.
3/ I got a sheet metal [@ Lowe's ~ 0.7 mm thick] that I cut to fit on the inside of the door where the old speaker was. Once it fit in, I used the speaker template to scribe in the necesary opening and mounting holes [ keeping teh center of teh new speaker in teh same place as the original speaker] - then I drilled the mounting holes an cut out the opening in the sheet metal. [ I made 2 of these at the same time].
4/ When all looked good, I put some silicone on the plate and riveted it to the inside of the door panel.
5/ I cut out speaker hole in the door panel to match the hole on the sheet metal.
6/ Now I put the door panel back on the door, and with a felt marker marked up the inside door metal through the speaker hole opening, so the speaker magnet fits in. Removed the door panel and cut ~ 1/2 inc strips into the inside door metal and bent the metal fingers into the door to open up the space for the speaker magnet.
7. Assembled and istalled everything, please note that one of the 4 screws that holds the speaker needs to be just long enough to hold, otherwise it will keep the panel out about 3/8 of an inch.
8/ Remove the foam from the original Volvo speaker cover, slide it on the door and enjoy the original door look and feel!

Done and now I can actualy hear a real base sound and hear the drums much better. It is not a subwooffer thumping, just a nice bass sound that did not exist before.

I chose the Polk speakes for the following reason:
a/ I like the sound and a tight undistorted low end and good low end frequence respoce specification.
b/ The efficiency is above 92db, allowing me to keep the original Volvo radio! This keeps the cost of sound system upgrade down and saves a lot of work and I do get more then adequate volume.
[ For each 3db drop in efficiecy of a speaker, we have to double the output of the power amp, so if one gets as 86db speakers, you have to have 4 times the power output for the amp and that is the RMS rating, The peak rating is a pure BS and means nothing... ] So a 10watt RMS amp will drive 92dB speakers same as 40 watt RMS amp driving 86dB speakers.]

Picture to follow...The final product looks much like what Piece has ..

 

the 6" speakers I installed in my fronts didn't require anywheres near that level of door or panel modifications, in fact, none other than mounting holes. And, the JL Audio C2-600 I used driven by a $120 Alpine deck have way enough volume to make your ears ring while being completely clean sounding for acoustic and vocal music where tonality is critical.

I did have to remove about 1/8" (2-3mm) of metal from the magnet hole in the rear door to mount the c2-525X, but I did this with a dremel grinder stone so you can't really even tell I did anything as the edges are smooth. for installing 5.25" speakers, I highly recommend those adapters i previously linked, they made the job trivial. screw adapters to original speaker holes (I used stainless screws, washers, and nuts, with blue lock-tite), and screw speakers to adapter (self taping screws, with some locktite to bond the screws to the plastic adapter so the sound vibration wont rattle them loose.

another point for the beginning speaker installer.... make SURE you get all the speakers wired 'in phase'. it doesn't really matter which phase (polarity), as long as they are all the same. the volvo factory wiring has somewhat larger slip-on connectors but they fit over my speakers just fine, small to small and large to large. at the stereo side, I wired solid color to '-' and striped color to '+' for all 4 speakers. my local stereo store had an adapter that had a plug you plugged the factory amplifier harness into (removing the amp), and another plug that you plugged the factory deck harness into, then wires fo connecting to the aftermarket stereo. this made stereo installation quite easy.

 

Thanks IC53 for this comprehensive rundown. The main thing I take from it is that you made up your own sheet metal speaker adapters whereas Pierce used bought ones :-) That tech stuff sounds interesting but a very strange tongue to me.. I am going to have to sit with it for a while. It sounds like one should specify their speakers by way of the decibel rating however cf that strange and irrelevant number that Aiwa introduced with their pimped up ghetto blasters..

 

FlyingVee,
You are correct, I made my own adapters, as the ones that came with the speakers were meand to go on the back of the speaker. I wanted to keep the existing look of the door, so the speaker had to be installed from behind so the tweeter will not obstruct teh original Volvo speaker cover. I could have likely bought one to fit, however it did not take long to make one. Adaptor is definitely needed, as the fibreglass panel of the door does not look strong enough to hold the heavier speakers.

I ownd my Volvo 740 since new and did pretty much all maintenance and repairs myself. I am also an electronics technologist, so I do know a little bit about electronics.

I would say that both Pierce and I have a very good sounding system, while we both chose slightly different approach to solve the same problem without going to the subwoofer solution and keeping the Volvo interior intact. Also after the 23 years, my Volvo speakers had it, they were starting to sound distorted, especialy at the low end of the sound frequencies. I just wish that I did the speaker upgrade sooner, as I do not know how long I get to keep teh car, as parts are getting harder to get.

I may state a lot of what you do know, so filter through to what may be of help:

Crutchfield has a lot of good information, just in case you were not aware:
Polk Audio: Speakers, Car, Surroundbar, Surround Sound, Subwoofers


Here are better definitions of the tech terms:

RMS Power, this is the continuous power that the speaker can take.

The idea behind peak power is that a speaker can take a transient power that is much higher then RMS power, however this is measured in miliseconds and is of no use, as you wil not turn up the volume fo 5 miliseconds... It is a marketing number designed to appeal to the masses. Every device can take a peak power spike that is bigger then the RMS specification.

Frequency Response: eg. 30Hz - 25KHz , for home speakers the low number is meangfull, unfortunately for car speakers this may be meaningful only when comparing speakers made by the same manufacturer, as ther are NO standards on how to arrive at this number. The low end response determines how well a bass, drums and other instruments that produce these frequencies will sound. Also for drums you do need a good flat response across the whole spectrum. Also the door cavity where the speaker is installed will have a large play in your low end response.

To make thing more confusing, every speaker will produce sound all the way down to 20Hz, unfortunately the volume may be so low [ -30db as an example] that you will neve hear it. This is where a specification like 30Hz to 25KHz +/- 3dB is very meningfull, as it states that all frequencies will be reproduced withing a 6dB volume range. This specification would give you a natural sound, and you have a choice to tweak the ***** on your radio/amp to suit you listening preferences or the muic that you are listening to at the time.

The best way to choose your speakers is to go to a place that has the speakers set up so you can hear them. Make sure that you are listening at a volume that would be normal o you and all tonal setting set to flat - this is the only way to compare speakers one to another. The salesman will have a tendency crank the volume way up and boost the base. Also remember that they have the speakers hooked up to 100+ Watt amplifiers, so they can drive any speaker. Even better, bring a CD of a music that you are very familiar with. Another thing to remember is that we have VERY poor memory for sounds, so you need to do A/B comparisons to filter out the poorer speakers. The salesman will also ask you what kind of music you listen to, just tell him that you want natural sounding speakers with a good low end response.

The sensitivity specification, like 92dB defines the volume that a speaker creates. There is no fudging this spec. 2dB difference in volume is just on verge of what one can hear, 3dB difference is what one can definitely hear.
Also 3dB difference = double the power to the speaker, this is all due to our hearing being logarythmic.

Also, pretty much any speaker can produce a reasonably good sound from midrange to high end, the low end is where the good and the average get separated, this is where you get into better speakers, which will also have better midrange and high end sound.

I could go on and on... Let me know if you have any specific question/s...

 

I could go on and on... Let me know if you have any specific question/s...

Many thanks for this IC53. Tardiness with my own response not intended as rudeness but deference to your obviously superior knowledge. I will reply more fully when my thoughts assemble themselves.

 

If you are handy at all, go with 6" [ like Pierce] or 6.5 inch speakers. You will greatly improve the low end response. Just measure everything out first. I managed to "stuff" 6.5 inch speakers into my 1989 740T.. and yes, just like Pierce I had to tie down and silicone "things" in the door that did not resonate with the original speakers, as the original speakes did not reproduce lows as well.

 

Thanks IC53. Hearing all the things I could do only serve to make me more aware of my OEM obsession. You guys tell me that the standard speakers are rubbish but I thought they were pretty good. At least they serve to shut out the noise of the various squeaks and rattles. :-)

I am now a bit better onto myself and realise that I don't want to use silicone, I don't want to cut anything, to remove the door or add templates. Now if someone was tenacious enough in their hunting to have found a speaker which just bolts straight in I would be interested.

Am I repeating myself when I say that here in NZ an off the shelf speaker retails for around $NZ350? ($US300)

 

Hello Flying Vee,
Volvo instals speakers that are beter then the average auto speakers. However I believe that any good aftermarket speaker that is $60 or more will be better that the OEM spaker. It sounds like your speakers are broken.
Crutchfiled has a good reference of what fits in cars: Volvo S60 Audio They recomed 4".. this would be a real step down in low end response.

There is no need to purchase overpriced speakes from a dealer, for that price you can install a real high end speakers.
The best way to ensure a proper fit, is to measure the current speakers. Most manufactures do have the measurement specifications on teh box or on their web sites. My 740 is 1989 model year, the rivet/scew holes are not evenly spaced. It is likely that you have the same set up, so you will have to drill some holes.

I have Polk MM521 in back door, these speaker require some sheel metal work, in ether from or in the back door. I have the OEM speake cover on them - you can not see the mods on the door. These speakers are very wide in the back.


On the front door I have Polk DXI650, 6.5" speaker, again, I had to do some cutting to fith the back of teh speaker into the door. Again I have the OEM speaker cover on, the door looks original. These speakers narrow down fairly quickly.

Measuring my origonal front door speaker, it looksl like a modified 6" speaker measuring 5 7/8" x 5 7/16 in across.
The magnet is 2 3/4 in across - if you can find a speaker that has the magnet 2 3/4 inches across or very close to this, you will elliminate the sheet metal mods on the door frame.

I believe that no matter what you do you will have to install an adapter or do a bit of work to install an after market speaker. I do not believe that ther is a true aftermarket drop in replacement - I have not seen one.

The radio in the car has a power amp, so you do not need to replace the radio, unless it is broken. However you are best to choose a speaker that can deliver sensitivity close to 90 dB or better , as each 3dB requires 2x the power from the radio for the same volume.

I hope this helps.

 

the stock amp in those cars has less power and fidelity than any decent modern deck with the integral 50x4 that seems standard these days.

those adapter rings I linked on post 2 of this thread make putting standard 5.25" speakers in the 740 doors trivial. the stock speakers were about 5" but with an oversized mounting flange and nonstandard mounting tabs, nothing will fit directly without /some/ hackage. the silicone adhesive I used is optional, although I recommend it, as any air leaks around the speaker will degrade the sound quality...

the original speakers in my 92 were pretty much history, the cones were all crunchy and cracked. I'd expect any 20+ year old speakers to be about the same

 

Thanks for more good thoughts IC53. My problem however is that besides the Flying Vee I have 2 other "children." "The Black" and "Sister Goldenhair" are a couple of high velocity motorcycles which sit in my shed and make demands of me. Hence I try to keep within very simple formulae.

I also had a formative experience in the form of a "miracle" which has an even stronger claim on my sensibilities now than it did in the early 90s when it happened. I had removed a chimney in my house but when I went to replace the "Decramastic" roofing tiles I found that the grey tile with blue and white flecks was no longer in production. They had a charcoal but I couldn't bring myself to buy it.

One day I was just walking along beside one of our local building recyclers and for some reason I glanced down and to my left. Right beside the fence was a small stack of brand new tiles in exactly the colour I was looking for.
Carnarvon Street, Gisborne - Google Maps (Here once but gone now).

I am kinda hoping that with a bit of patience someone will happen along and say, "Aah that was precisely my situation too and XYZ manufacturer does a perfect substitute for the OEM speakers." Forgive me for being a painful perfectionist but being a biker 30 plus years after the fact my Bible is still somewhat Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” Robert Pirsig

For me tranquility means not having to date a bunch of toads for practise, but to just wait and trust and believe. It also means keeping the car original for the next owner. You might be happy with your mods but they will always gnaw at you when you go to sell it.