850 Poor gas mileage - Tips to improve mpg...
#101
06-17-2013, 09:20 PM
#102
06-18-2013, 04:11 PM
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I spoke with the son of the owner of Mesa Autoworks today (He is a Tech). I asked about changing over from standard oil to synthetic on Volvo with over 100,000 miles. He chuckled and said he was glad I learned something from working there. They do NOT recommend changing from standard to synthetic oils as discussed. I did not pursue his reasoning, these guys specialize in Volvo service and if you live in Mesa AZ area they are highly respected in the community. You can tell them Benford sent you.
#103
06-18-2013, 05:24 PM
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Benford, you also said this and never explained it.
"Synthetic oil pressure is higher and can cause your main seals to leak."
Which is wrong but I would have liked to see how you explained it. 50 psi of pressure is 50 psi no matter what weight or if it's synthetic or dino. Oil pressure is maintained by a spring on most cars and that's what limits oil pressure and again it doesn't matter the oil as the spring can't tell the difference.
Let Mesa say what they want since you have no idea why or under what conditions as you just took his word for it without any explanation.
Most of us here who drive them daily like our synthetic. My poor under loved, abused, neglected car that came with 250K something on it is running synthetic without any leaks or blown seals for around 50K now. That is with a PCV that needs to get changed out.
As far as I'm concerned if it's a turbo you should only run synthetic since the oil is used to lube it and cool it. It's that cooling part that can break down a regular and syn-blend faster.
And just so you don't think Mesa "techs" are the only trained guys out there here are my qualifications to promote my position.
Advanced Level Specialist 2012 Spring
Alternate Fuels Technician 2012 Spring
Master Automobile Technician 2012 Spring
Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician 2012 Spring
Master School Bus Technician 2012 Spring
Parts Specialist 2012 Spring
Service Consultant 2012 Spring
Undercar Specialist 2012 Spring
(My company paid for testing in 2012 so I took everything I had that was expired.)
"Synthetic oil pressure is higher and can cause your main seals to leak."
Which is wrong but I would have liked to see how you explained it. 50 psi of pressure is 50 psi no matter what weight or if it's synthetic or dino. Oil pressure is maintained by a spring on most cars and that's what limits oil pressure and again it doesn't matter the oil as the spring can't tell the difference.
Let Mesa say what they want since you have no idea why or under what conditions as you just took his word for it without any explanation.
Most of us here who drive them daily like our synthetic. My poor under loved, abused, neglected car that came with 250K something on it is running synthetic without any leaks or blown seals for around 50K now. That is with a PCV that needs to get changed out.
As far as I'm concerned if it's a turbo you should only run synthetic since the oil is used to lube it and cool it. It's that cooling part that can break down a regular and syn-blend faster.
And just so you don't think Mesa "techs" are the only trained guys out there here are my qualifications to promote my position.
Advanced Level Specialist 2012 Spring
Alternate Fuels Technician 2012 Spring
Master Automobile Technician 2012 Spring
Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician 2012 Spring
Master School Bus Technician 2012 Spring
Parts Specialist 2012 Spring
Service Consultant 2012 Spring
Undercar Specialist 2012 Spring
(My company paid for testing in 2012 so I took everything I had that was expired.)
Last edited by Kiss4aFrog; 06-25-2013 at 07:58 PM.
#104
06-19-2013, 12:13 AM
Well, I did it to every car I have owned in the past 5 years. The only one that had any leaks afterwards was my daughters, which happened about 5 months later. Likely were going to blow those cam seals anyway. The seals were after market.
My current car had 189,000 on it when I changed, it now has 233,000. No leaks at all.
My current car had 189,000 on it when I changed, it now has 233,000. No leaks at all.
#105
06-19-2013, 12:26 AM
As for oil leaks, from what I have learned about synthetics is that the molicules are all smaller and uniform. While conventional oil molicules are not as small and are not uniform. So, all of the molicules in synthetic oils may be the size of a dime, while other conventional oils the molicules will vary from dime size to quarter size. So, if you have a seam in a seal that is about to leak or is not so tight, synthetic oil might slip through the cracks. Hope that makes sense.
#106
06-25-2013, 07:51 PM
My SC (again, sorry for the OT post) is about all used up. It's at around 200k and leaks pretty much every fluid. It has rust starting around the back window and the lower edge of the drivers door. The hood has some rock chips and one of the bumper covers has some scrapes. The interior is starting to come apart at the top of the back seat, and the drivers seat is coming apart at the bolster as well.
When I priced getting it repainted, not even considering the fact that it needs mechanical and interior work, it would've been cheaper to buy a nicer 95 and get the 2 options I wanted, but couldn't find, when I bought it over 10 years ago: a 5 speed and a sunroof.
I'm on my 3rd radiator, 3rd battery, 3rd set of tires.. I love the car, but with 3 kids, it's not real practical. I will probably get whatever I can out of it, and put it into my car maintenance fund. Last year, I did plugs/wires/motor mounts/water pump/ps pump/idler pulleys/all 3 belts/hoses. Wish I could say I had the sense to do it all at once, as you know, that dang intercooler piping has to come off to do most anything to these cars.
I did score last week on eBay, a set of original factory service manuals for $4.99!
Back to the Volvo topic..
I drove my 850 to the pull a part yesterday. The only thing I changed was the air filter. It was about a 200 mile round trip. I can't give an accurate mileage diagnosis because I let the car idle for about an hour while I was in the pull a part, as my wife and kids were waiting in the car. It had the AC running the entire time. I got 17 MPG for the trip, but it sat and idled for an hour with the AC running, plus we got caught in bumper to bumper traffic on the interstate for 5 miles, crawling, because of construction. But, when I got there, I looked at the dash 'average' thingie, with the **** cranked all the way to the left on the info center, and it had been sitting at 22 for some time, and said 24 yesterday. Tough to know, I filled it back up and reset everything and see what I get going forward. I hope I see an improvement. Maybe can work the oil change in with the Mobil 1 this week, want to do the seafoam, first.
When I priced getting it repainted, not even considering the fact that it needs mechanical and interior work, it would've been cheaper to buy a nicer 95 and get the 2 options I wanted, but couldn't find, when I bought it over 10 years ago: a 5 speed and a sunroof.
I'm on my 3rd radiator, 3rd battery, 3rd set of tires.. I love the car, but with 3 kids, it's not real practical. I will probably get whatever I can out of it, and put it into my car maintenance fund. Last year, I did plugs/wires/motor mounts/water pump/ps pump/idler pulleys/all 3 belts/hoses. Wish I could say I had the sense to do it all at once, as you know, that dang intercooler piping has to come off to do most anything to these cars.
I did score last week on eBay, a set of original factory service manuals for $4.99!
Back to the Volvo topic..
I drove my 850 to the pull a part yesterday. The only thing I changed was the air filter. It was about a 200 mile round trip. I can't give an accurate mileage diagnosis because I let the car idle for about an hour while I was in the pull a part, as my wife and kids were waiting in the car. It had the AC running the entire time. I got 17 MPG for the trip, but it sat and idled for an hour with the AC running, plus we got caught in bumper to bumper traffic on the interstate for 5 miles, crawling, because of construction. But, when I got there, I looked at the dash 'average' thingie, with the **** cranked all the way to the left on the info center, and it had been sitting at 22 for some time, and said 24 yesterday. Tough to know, I filled it back up and reset everything and see what I get going forward. I hope I see an improvement. Maybe can work the oil change in with the Mobil 1 this week, want to do the seafoam, first.
#108
06-25-2013, 10:02 PM
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#109
06-26-2013, 02:57 PM
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Synthetic Oil changes
I worked for these guys in the late 90's. I had always thought the problem with synthetic conversions was related to oil pressure. That is what I took away from the conversation some 14 or 15 years ago. The idea that at a molecular level synthetic oil is consistently smaller makes sense. I did not pester my friends at the shop for a complete explanation. For me it is not needed. I call this shop whenever I have a problem with my 850's. I joined this community of enthusiasts to share good advice and personal experiences with my many Volvos over the last 15 years. If you have to have the last word as the ultimate Tech here, well you can have it. I am not here to be that person.
#110
06-27-2013, 08:42 AM
Man, I'm not trying to tell you what to do with your car, just what I have done with mine. Change the oil with whatever you find on the shelf as outlined in the owners manual and the motor will likely outlast your ownership. As you may have noticed, I haven't supplied you with any oil yet.
#111
11-11-2013, 09:17 AM
#113
03-25-2014, 12:46 PM
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I have a 96 Turbo Wagon and a 97 T5 Sedan. The wagon has been getting 29 with me and one passenger on the freeway which is factory spec. The T5 gets 26 mpg hwy which is factory spec. The wagon is in the shop as I type this for a factory recall on the EVAP system. It recently started smelling like gas inside the cabin randomly and the mileage dropped a bit too. I get my best city mileage in both cars by watching lights far in advance and adjusting my speed so that I can avoid coming to a full stop. This really seems to irk a lot of folks who hurry by me and sit at the light waiting. I have about 200,000 miles on both cars, fresh air filters, regular oil changes, and Timing belts every 70 K with plugs and wires at about the same time seem to keep my cars running good. Though the wagon did have a cam sensor go out and would not run. The T5 had the temp sensor in the thermostat housing go out, I got both parts at Pic a part and a couple of extras just in case. I think the 850 line is one of the best ever for Volvo. I also agree with using good gas, I always run premium in both cars always have.
#114
03-25-2014, 02:31 PM
#115
01-10-2015, 12:07 PM
regarding synth oil vs dino - Synthetic is "slippery" and can find its way through old seals. I tried converting my 95 850T (200K+ miles now) a few years back and it immediately started drip leaking out of the rear main seal. Reverted back to "high mileage" conventional oil and the leakage stopped. Older car parts were not designed to the same tolerances as newer cars and the seal material do benefit from the add ins from the high mileage type oils.
One other consideration for varying fuel mileage is actually the gas you use. If you live in a region with "winter blend" gasoline, you get a bit more ethanol and other add ins which are less energy dense per gallon (1.7% per the EPA in fact...) so right there you'd see about 1 MPG lower in the winter - add that to cold tires and power train parts and you should see a seasonal drop off of up to 2 MPGs just for living in the cold.
One other consideration for varying fuel mileage is actually the gas you use. If you live in a region with "winter blend" gasoline, you get a bit more ethanol and other add ins which are less energy dense per gallon (1.7% per the EPA in fact...) so right there you'd see about 1 MPG lower in the winter - add that to cold tires and power train parts and you should see a seasonal drop off of up to 2 MPGs just for living in the cold.
#116
01-12-2015, 07:25 AM
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There are now numerous high mileage synthetic oils available.
regarding synth oil vs dino - Synthetic is "slippery" and can find its way through old seals. I tried converting my 95 850T (200K+ miles now) a few years back and it immediately started drip leaking out of the rear main seal. Reverted back to "high mileage" conventional oil and the leakage stopped. Older car parts were not designed to the same tolerances as newer cars and the seal material do benefit from the add ins from the high mileage type oils.
One other consideration for varying fuel mileage is actually the gas you use. If you live in a region with "winter blend" gasoline, you get a bit more ethanol and other add ins which are less energy dense per gallon (1.7% per the EPA in fact...) so right there you'd see about 1 MPG lower in the winter - add that to cold tires and power train parts and you should see a seasonal drop off of up to 2 MPGs just for living in the cold.
One other consideration for varying fuel mileage is actually the gas you use. If you live in a region with "winter blend" gasoline, you get a bit more ethanol and other add ins which are less energy dense per gallon (1.7% per the EPA in fact...) so right there you'd see about 1 MPG lower in the winter - add that to cold tires and power train parts and you should see a seasonal drop off of up to 2 MPGs just for living in the cold.
#117
01-12-2015, 07:57 AM
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ARD Tuning to Boost Fuel Economy?
I recently called ARD Tuning and they claim that on my stock 1995 850 Turbo, if the car / engine is in good health, that their base level tuning will result in a 2-3mpg increase minimum. He estimated that after the tuning the car will get 30-31+ mpg highway.
In fairness, he did also say that most people do NOT realize this fuel economy boost because horsepower also jumps from 222 to 255 as a result of the tune and most can help but enjoy that power increase
Has anyone here had their ECU tuned by ARD Volvo 850 best performance parts, and been able to keep their foot out of it, AND seen the claimed 30+ mpg result?
In fairness, he did also say that most people do NOT realize this fuel economy boost because horsepower also jumps from 222 to 255 as a result of the tune and most can help but enjoy that power increase
Has anyone here had their ECU tuned by ARD Volvo 850 best performance parts, and been able to keep their foot out of it, AND seen the claimed 30+ mpg result?
Last edited by SUNRG; 01-12-2015 at 08:05 AM.
#118
01-13-2015, 09:21 AM
ECU upgrades and gas mileage
the ECU upgrade kits all work pretty much the same way - they reflash the ECU to modify the boost curve (ie turbo boost level vs RPM) and the spark advance vs RPM. The gain in HP comes from increasing the boost which overcomes the pumping losses in the engine allowing for more mixture to find its way into the cylinders per RPM (same end game as bigger exhausts, free intakes, even bigger displacements). If you advance the spark as well, you are giving the engine more time to burn the mixture- which also gives you more HP, and since this happens even during off boost/highway driving, you can expect some improvements to MPGs. So if you're wondering why cars simply don't ship with more spark advance, the reason is two fold - more advanced spark means a hotter burn, which while reducing HC emissions, it creates more NOx emissions (ie too much advance can fail a smog test). Secondly too hot a burn or too early a spark can lead to pinging (knock) and engine damage (ie valves) over time. That's why when you run upgraded ECUs you MUSt run premium gas (ie 92/93 octane) - otherwise the knock sensors will work overtime trying to retard the spark your new ECU just upped. Assuming your 850T is stock, you have the 15G turbo and this product advances the spark 1 degree and bumps the maximum boost 3.3 PSI which are fairly modest changes IMHO. If you are ok sticking to premium gas, I'd say add a K+N air filter and enjoy the new ride and at least a small bump in MPGs.
#119
05-12-2018, 08:57 AM
From what I recall having these cars when they were newer, they were not particularly good on gas. Before jumping around throwing parts at it, do some testing. If a car suddenly drops to 16 MPG from 20, that's a 20% increase in fuel for the same distance. If you have no check engine light, then recheck your math.
Start by running at least three tanks of fuel through the vehicle. If you are within 80% of the EPA estimates, then you are probably just fine. For every dollar that you spend trying to fix something that isn't broken, you simply waste money.
Start by running at least three tanks of fuel through the vehicle. If you are within 80% of the EPA estimates, then you are probably just fine. For every dollar that you spend trying to fix something that isn't broken, you simply waste money.
#120
10-15-2018, 12:25 AM
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My NA s70 gets around 28 or so slow highway, but since it does not have VVT cannot do better on highways like my 04 t5
bad CAT can cause bad MPG also.
dragging brakes
bad o2 sensor as mentioned above.
and Syth oil also helps.
too much water in coolant also make the temp run wrong or bad t stat
bad CAT can cause bad MPG also.
dragging brakes
bad o2 sensor as mentioned above.
and Syth oil also helps.
too much water in coolant also make the temp run wrong or bad t stat