859T will not start-No ECU codes
#1
02-16-2008, 06:15 PM
859T will not start-No ECU codes
Hi All:
Our '95 Turbo will not start. Plenty of cranking. I can smell the gas delivery. I have hooked up a timing light and no flash indicating ignition coming from either the coil or lead to a spark plug. Therefor seems like the hunt is to find ignition.
We have a well running '98 V70, so using it as my parts car, here is what I have done to date:
Swapped the fuel pump relay, just to be sure, even though I could hear the pump and smell the gas delivery.
Swapped the cam position sensor.
Swapped the coil.
Replaced all ignition wires and distributer cap/rotor 3 months ago.
In checking the A diagnostic test box under the hood for codes, I get NO blinks, none at all, from the test LED display.
To be sure the testing probe/lead was OK, I did a test on other systems, getting a 1-1-1 reading.
If there are no ignition code responses from the test block, could that mean the ECU itself is bad? I pulled the ECU just to check for corrosion, physically looked fine.
I haven't taken the RPM sensor out yet, looks like it is buried (like the CPS was)
However it seems to me that I should be able to get a code of some sort, and I am reluctant to spend more time swapping parts if I can't even get a code.
Any suggestions to try? I would hate to have to give up and tow it to a shop, admitting defeat!
Thanks for any suggestions
Pete
Our '95 Turbo will not start. Plenty of cranking. I can smell the gas delivery. I have hooked up a timing light and no flash indicating ignition coming from either the coil or lead to a spark plug. Therefor seems like the hunt is to find ignition.
We have a well running '98 V70, so using it as my parts car, here is what I have done to date:
Swapped the fuel pump relay, just to be sure, even though I could hear the pump and smell the gas delivery.
Swapped the cam position sensor.
Swapped the coil.
Replaced all ignition wires and distributer cap/rotor 3 months ago.
In checking the A diagnostic test box under the hood for codes, I get NO blinks, none at all, from the test LED display.
To be sure the testing probe/lead was OK, I did a test on other systems, getting a 1-1-1 reading.
If there are no ignition code responses from the test block, could that mean the ECU itself is bad? I pulled the ECU just to check for corrosion, physically looked fine.
I haven't taken the RPM sensor out yet, looks like it is buried (like the CPS was)
However it seems to me that I should be able to get a code of some sort, and I am reluctant to spend more time swapping parts if I can't even get a code.
Any suggestions to try? I would hate to have to give up and tow it to a shop, admitting defeat!
Thanks for any suggestions
Pete
#3
02-16-2008, 07:06 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
Try yanking the ECU and spraying the edge connector on the ECU and the socket with contact cleaner. Seat and re-seat it a few times and give it another try. It sounds to me like an ECU problem or an ECU connector problem to me based on your lack of codes fromthe socket.
...Lee
...Lee
#4
02-16-2008, 07:26 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
Before removing the ECUs, make sure to disconnect the battery and wait 5 (10?) minutes until power supply is completely gone.
IAW the factory manual:
NO START
- CHECK FUEL PUMP CKT (this one seems ok)
- CHECK RPM SENSOR CKT
- CHECK CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CKT (if the part you swapped was the exact same, this one seems ok)
- CHECK POWER STAGE CKT (PART OF THE IGNITION COIL)
- CHECK MAF SENSOR CKT
- CHECK FUEL PRESSURE (this one seems ok)
As a last resort, you may want to pull codes via OBD-II. OBD-II was officially available from '96 but some Volvos came with it earlier (my '94 850 T5 had it but others with '94 models said they didn't have one); it is in front of the shifter under the coin holder.
JPN
[IMG]local://upfiles/6892/A3F18ED5B15B4D55B35DE4D62D696967.jpg[/IMG]
IAW the factory manual:
NO START
- CHECK FUEL PUMP CKT (this one seems ok)
- CHECK RPM SENSOR CKT
- CHECK CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CKT (if the part you swapped was the exact same, this one seems ok)
- CHECK POWER STAGE CKT (PART OF THE IGNITION COIL)
- CHECK MAF SENSOR CKT
- CHECK FUEL PRESSURE (this one seems ok)
As a last resort, you may want to pull codes via OBD-II. OBD-II was officially available from '96 but some Volvos came with it earlier (my '94 850 T5 had it but others with '94 models said they didn't have one); it is in front of the shifter under the coin holder.
JPN
[IMG]local://upfiles/6892/A3F18ED5B15B4D55B35DE4D62D696967.jpg[/IMG]
#5
02-17-2008, 07:55 AM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
Thanks for the responses. The CPS from our V70 is an exact match, I actually left the 850 unit in the V70, rather than removing again, and it runs fine.
I do have the OBDII connector in the cabin, though I got no ignition codes when I tryed in last week. Assumed the testing was maybe not for all systems? I will give it another try today. I'll also remove the ECU and clean as suggested.
Are the RPM sensor or Mass Air flow unit items likley culprets worth going after next if this mornings checks don't yeild results? No start conditions can be so frustrating because it feels like shots in the dark...
Thanks again for your help
Pete
I do have the OBDII connector in the cabin, though I got no ignition codes when I tryed in last week. Assumed the testing was maybe not for all systems? I will give it another try today. I'll also remove the ECU and clean as suggested.
Are the RPM sensor or Mass Air flow unit items likley culprets worth going after next if this mornings checks don't yeild results? No start conditions can be so frustrating because it feels like shots in the dark...
Thanks again for your help
Pete
#6
02-17-2008, 08:12 AM
#7
02-17-2008, 08:33 AM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
OK, I'll add the RPM sensor to the list. Haynes indicates it is on the bellhousing, adjacent to the distributer. Hard to see much in that area, really claustrophobic in that area, turbo likely doesnt help. Reasonable to get to? Is a VOM resistance test reliable to confirm if it is in OK shape?
Pete
Pete
#9
02-17-2008, 09:54 AM
#10
02-17-2008, 06:16 PM
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RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
ORIGINAL: pconfar
Hi All:
Our '95 Turbo will not start. Plenty of cranking. I can smell the gas delivery. I have hooked up a timing light and no flash indicating ignition coming from either the coil or lead to a spark plug. Therefor seems like the hunt is to find ignition.
We have a well running '98 V70, so using it as my parts car, here is what I have done to date:
Swapped the fuel pump relay, just to be sure, even though I could hear the pump and smell the gas delivery.
Swapped the cam position sensor.
Swapped the coil.
Replaced all ignition wires and distributer cap/rotor 3 months ago.
In checking the A diagnostic test box under the hood for codes, I get NO blinks, none at all, from the test LED display.
To be sure the testing probe/lead was OK, I did a test on other systems, getting a 1-1-1 reading.
If there are no ignition code responses from the test block, could that mean the ECU itself is bad? I pulled the ECU just to check for corrosion, physically looked fine.
I haven't taken the RPM sensor out yet, looks like it is buried (like the CPS was)
However it seems to me that I should be able to get a code of some sort, and I am reluctant to spend more time swapping parts if I can't even get a code.
Any suggestions to try? I would hate to have to give up and tow it to a shop, admitting defeat!
Thanks for any suggestions
Pete
Hi All:
Our '95 Turbo will not start. Plenty of cranking. I can smell the gas delivery. I have hooked up a timing light and no flash indicating ignition coming from either the coil or lead to a spark plug. Therefor seems like the hunt is to find ignition.
We have a well running '98 V70, so using it as my parts car, here is what I have done to date:
Swapped the fuel pump relay, just to be sure, even though I could hear the pump and smell the gas delivery.
Swapped the cam position sensor.
Swapped the coil.
Replaced all ignition wires and distributer cap/rotor 3 months ago.
In checking the A diagnostic test box under the hood for codes, I get NO blinks, none at all, from the test LED display.
To be sure the testing probe/lead was OK, I did a test on other systems, getting a 1-1-1 reading.
If there are no ignition code responses from the test block, could that mean the ECU itself is bad? I pulled the ECU just to check for corrosion, physically looked fine.
I haven't taken the RPM sensor out yet, looks like it is buried (like the CPS was)
However it seems to me that I should be able to get a code of some sort, and I am reluctant to spend more time swapping parts if I can't even get a code.
Any suggestions to try? I would hate to have to give up and tow it to a shop, admitting defeat!
Thanks for any suggestions
Pete
After inspecting, checking and cleaning upevery component I could think of thatmight be causing this problem, and still not being able to come up with a solution, in desperation I eventually decided to resort to the"crank her over till she starts" method.
I pushed the accelerator flat to the floor and started to crank the engine (be warned -you must persevere as thoughts of burning the starter motor out makes people give up too quickly).
Nothing happened for the first 30 seconds - then it sounded like she was trying to firefor about another 20 seconds before revertingtojust plain cranking over again.
Beingin for the long haul,I kept the ignition hard over, crank - crank - crank, etc.
At about 75 seconds definite signs of hertrying to fire againand, after about 5 seconds trying, burst into life, coughed as she cleared herself out, and then settled down to her usual sweet-sounding800 rpm idle.
There is a reason why Volvos doing this which I won't go into now but, if all else fails, it might be very worthwhile trying this"crank start" method.
Note: See my post on 12th February 2008, "'95 850 T5 finally started".
Good luck!
#11
02-18-2008, 10:24 AM
#12
02-18-2008, 06:38 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
What is the theory of the "crank start method"? Any logical reason the hard start happened originally?
I think making a go of this technique is interesting, though doesn't fit conventional wisdom...
I purchaced an ECU on ebay, just to cover all bases. But while I am waiting what the heck...
I think making a go of this technique is interesting, though doesn't fit conventional wisdom...
I purchaced an ECU on ebay, just to cover all bases. But while I am waiting what the heck...
#13
02-18-2008, 07:36 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
Just got in from cranking the starter. Sadly I'm not lucky enough for the cranking method to work and start the car. I cranked continuously for 1 min, 15 seconds, at which time the starter speed was diminishing in a big way (I used a jump start battery to augment the car's battery)
It did tease me a few times with increased revolution speed and what seemed like a monentary catch. But ultimatly nothing.
I could bring one of the other cars about to get a strong, continuous jump, but I am a bit fearful of damaging the starter or even worse the electrical harness damage.
If there is that "catch" does that mean anything? Like I said in an earlier post, I didn't see any output from the timing light, so I wouldn't think there was really any ignition. Phantom ignition?
Baffling!
It did tease me a few times with increased revolution speed and what seemed like a monentary catch. But ultimatly nothing.
I could bring one of the other cars about to get a strong, continuous jump, but I am a bit fearful of damaging the starter or even worse the electrical harness damage.
If there is that "catch" does that mean anything? Like I said in an earlier post, I didn't see any output from the timing light, so I wouldn't think there was really any ignition. Phantom ignition?
Baffling!
#14
02-18-2008, 08:59 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
You usually need to do that after the car sits for a while.
When the car sits for a while the lifters collapse. Then when you try to crank it there is little compression. By the time the lifters pump up the car is fludded with gas and won't start anyway.
Thats why you hold the gas pedal to the floor before turning the key on. When the key is turned on the computers sees the throttle is wide open and stops the fuel allowing you to crank and burn off some fuel in the cylinder and eventually starting the car.
When the car sits for a while the lifters collapse. Then when you try to crank it there is little compression. By the time the lifters pump up the car is fludded with gas and won't start anyway.
Thats why you hold the gas pedal to the floor before turning the key on. When the key is turned on the computers sees the throttle is wide open and stops the fuel allowing you to crank and burn off some fuel in the cylinder and eventually starting the car.
#15
02-19-2008, 07:02 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
Great information. Love continuing to learn about these cars! I bought a used ECU on ebay. I'll try it later this week, maybe combine with the crank method.
If no luck then. I'll put my head down in defeat and tow it to a shop...
If it goes, I'll be sure to check in
Pete
If no luck then. I'll put my head down in defeat and tow it to a shop...
If it goes, I'll be sure to check in
Pete
#16
02-20-2008, 03:55 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Ararat, Victoria, Australia
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RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
ORIGINAL: pconfar
Just got in from cranking the starter. Sadly I'm not lucky enough for the cranking method to work and start the car. I cranked continuously for 1 min, 15 seconds, at which time the starter speed was diminishing in a big way (I used a jump start battery to augment the car's battery)
It did tease me a few times with increased revolution speed and what seemed like a monentary catch. But ultimatly nothing.
I could bring one of the other cars about to get a strong, continuous jump, but I am a bit fearful of damaging the starter or even worse the electrical harness damage.
If there is that "catch" does that mean anything? Like I said in an earlier post, I didn't see any output from the timing light, so I wouldn't think there was really any ignition. Phantom ignition?
Baffling!
Just got in from cranking the starter. Sadly I'm not lucky enough for the cranking method to work and start the car. I cranked continuously for 1 min, 15 seconds, at which time the starter speed was diminishing in a big way (I used a jump start battery to augment the car's battery)
It did tease me a few times with increased revolution speed and what seemed like a monentary catch. But ultimatly nothing.
I could bring one of the other cars about to get a strong, continuous jump, but I am a bit fearful of damaging the starter or even worse the electrical harness damage.
If there is that "catch" does that mean anything? Like I said in an earlier post, I didn't see any output from the timing light, so I wouldn't think there was really any ignition. Phantom ignition?
Baffling!
I'm not saying by any means this is a certain cure -something else entirely may be causing the actual problem - all that I know is itworked on my wagon and I rather suspect you may have given up to quickly.
As Tech said, the accelerator must be pushed absolutely flat to the floor before theignition key is turned - then don'tlet-up until it fires (I was tempted to stop also - but gritted my teeth and kept going).
Your post indicates your carsounded like ittried to start while being crankedbeforerevertingto just cranking over again.
That's exactly what mine did.
Mine tried to fireat around 30 second mark for about 10 seconds (yipee - here we go) then just as quickly for no apparent reason stopped trying to fire (@!%%$##@^). But,as far as I was concerned, it was either Sydney or the bush (Aussie saying for "going for broke") - so the key was held over until, without warning, the wagonfinally burst into life (at aroundthe 85 second mark).
Good Luck!
#17
02-20-2008, 10:24 PM
RE: 859T will not start-No ECU codes
What a great post!
I will admit, I had visions of the car bursting into flames as the harness melts down...
I will wait till I get the new (used) ECU from ebay so I can rationalize I did something more than crank the starter. But when I get it, I like your going for broke idea!!!
Pete
I will admit, I had visions of the car bursting into flames as the harness melts down...
I will wait till I get the new (used) ECU from ebay so I can rationalize I did something more than crank the starter. But when I get it, I like your going for broke idea!!!
Pete
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