Hi Noobie here, what a great site!

I have a '94 Volvo 850 which has recently lostabout 5-10% of it's breaking performance. Last year I had front discs and pads replaced. Also, for the MOT it had to have a reconditioned ABS pump/modulator as the old unit was leaking slightly. Since then, it appears to have lost a very small amount of brake fluid, I have had the whole car checked over for fluid leaks and there are none. There is, however, a funny 'whooshing' sound that has developed recently - it appears to be coming from underneath, behind the engine bay when you depress the brake pedal - under normal and heavy breaking.

Any ideas...?

Thanks

 

Hi Jim, Greetings from Chicagoland.

Sorry about the brake problem.

"Whooshing" noise, is it?That sounds like a bit of leak from the brake booster. If you can have an assistant,you could perhaps have him/her step on the brake pedal with the engine running (Be sure to apply parking brake fully, keep the shifter in Park-for Automatic/Neutral-for Manual, or put wheel chocks if P-brake is not fully operational), while listeningfor the noise.Booster is the black round component where the brake fluidreservoiris connected toto, by the firewall. The booster itself may have a leak, or more likely, the hose thatconnects to the booster may have loose connection/leak on the hose.

Loss of brake fluid by a little amount, if there is no leak, is probably normal due to brake pads wear. When pads wear, the fluid level does drop and in this case it is not recommended to add fluid, as it will overflow when new pads are installed the next time (However, if the fluid level drops below MIN mark, then add enough fluid to bring the level back up above the MIN mark).

Wait until person by the name of "Moderator Tech" replies, M. Tech is the top-dog on this forum. Also, other experts may reply to you in the meantime with better ideas than mine.

Waiting for your further reply.


JPN

 

Hi JPN, thanks for your reply. I have done this and pretty sure the sound is coming from the booster, although difficult to tell with the engine noise on top of the sound etc. There are no visible leaksfrom the booster/master cylindernor hoses attached - very strange,the brake fluid level is about half-way between max and min. (I am positive it was nearer the max about 3 months ago-I know I should check it more often) I was more concerned by the fact I have to press the peddle alot harder than usual in an emergency!

Jim

 

Wait, for you, is it pretty unresponsive when you brake?

Like if you press 50% down, it's slowing you down but not stopping you alot? And before that, pretty much no braking at all? Even when you press all the way, it doesn't stop as hard as newer cars (I don't know if you have this experience)?

 

No, nowhere near that bad, had to brake from 70 mph (I live in the UK)to 30 mph in less than two seconds this morning (due to some foolpulling out in front of me on the carriageway) but I do not think (generally)itis as good as it used to be when I bought the car a year ago. I would estimate that it was about 90% as good as before. I have driven a new V70 recently which is much better.

 

Does the pedal feel really hard?
Or does it feel really soft?

 

Hello again Jim,

By following M. Tech's advice, I believe the problem would be solved. So, in this case I'll just provide you with my prejudice (M. Tech usually solves problems with only a couple of sentences, whereas I write a full-page essay and still don't seem to help people much).

Anyway, as to the brake fluid level drop, I'm still inclined to think that it's normal wear of the pads. OEM pads for Volvo (as well as other European cars) seem to wear out quickly, at about 30,000 miles though it depends on how the car is driven. Very often, I see Volvos and German cars with sooty front wheels, so that might be the reason for the fluid level drop, if there is no leak.

I am not sure about the overall durability of the booster on Volvos, but if you hear whoosh/hiss, it might be the cause of less stopping performance, as vacuummay beescaping somewhere. Also, make sure that the tyres still have enough treads and the pressure is correct.

The brakes on my 850 are worse than yours. The pedal sinks about 2 inches/5cm until the brakes kick in. I'm assuming it's the master cylinder that is needing maintenance/replacement, since I've replaced almost all brake parts last August and bled the system.

Cheers,


JPN

 

Carriage way.....Brits make me laugh. Hahaha.

If you could brake from 70 to 30, you're nowhere as bad as me. It would take me a pretty long distance to actually slow down. I have had multiple encounters where I have BARELY hit the person infront of me. I gotta put down full force and even then, my car does not come to a complete stop.

I have driven a 2005 Honda Pilot and those brakes are MUCH better. If you apply even a little pressure, the stopping power is amazing.

I went to the mechanic this weekend, and my pads were about 50% in front and 25% in back. So I don't think it's so much a pad problem as it is possibly a Volvo design problem??

Now that I'm looking over JPN's post, it looks like his brakes are almost as bad as mine...

 

>Now that I'm looking over JPN's post, it looks like his brakes are almost as bad as mine...
Thanks, Jimmy...[8D]

In my case, as well as yours, the only cause I can think of at this point is the master cylinder. If I were you, I would do something about it before hitting a person. My brakes are not too bad, as I did pads & rotors, both F & R. Bled the system to a perfection, so the master cylinder may have seals that are wearing out. Only M. Tech may be able to tell us something we don't know.....

I believe Honda Pilot is actually Isuzu something, as those guys seem to have some collaboration deals going onfor a while. I think most recent cars come with good brakes. Also, 850 might have had as good of a system as newer cars, but after years & miles of abuse, something gets tired.....

Good night to All,


JPN

 

^Master Cylinder eh? It might be just that the cars are newer...

My mom's 99' Camry isn't as bad (If I brake like I do on hers as I do mine, I will come to a halting stop). My dad has an '02 Corolla and those are good (obviously lol).

My dad went on a trip a couple months ago to New Orleans (if i remember right) and he had a Ford Taurus as a rental...He said the brakes were just as bad//pretty soft....

 

Hi Tech, the pedal travels for about 1.5 to 2inches before stiffening up and braking power is applied. I guess I am expecting too much from my 850! - as JPN & RedTurbo said, most new cars are bound tohave a better braking performance than a car designed 15 years ago.

I will however get someone else more technically mindedthan myself to test drive it and see what they think.

I recently drove a '99 Grand Cherokee and nearly got catapulted through the windshield when I applied the brakes for the first time - they were so fierce!

Thanks to all for your help and advice

Jim

 

I have not trouble at all braking in my 97 850 R or my 98 V70. I've alway thought Volvo's have one of the best braking systems of any car on the road. I use nothing except OEM parts on my brake repairs and do most of the work myself.

 

Have you tried putting in a new Volvo brake booster?

 

Exactly! Somehow I think Volvo's or maybe 850's have some type of fault with their brakes. No way that it's a drivers issue if 3 people are experiencing very very similar problems.

 

>Somehow I think Volvo's or maybe 850's have some type of fault with their brakes.
ABS is definitely one of them.

Jimmy may be right, the only way to tell is to install a new/rebuilt master cylinder, as far as my 850 goes. If that does not improve performance, then the design must have been poor. For a car like 850 Turbo, braking is critical.

Jim, I wish you the best. If you've replaced brake components and bled the system,the brakesmay be as good asthey get.

Cheers,


JPN

 

If it’s been long enough that your Volvo brake pads aren’t changed, it might probable have worn out. It’s crucial to have brake problems because it’s the most cause of accident. Changing some parts wouldn’t be a bad try.

 

^Yeah for sure. But like I said, I have about 50% on the front and 25% on the rear. It's not that good, but terrible either.

It's gotta be a Volvo design flaw.

 

Hello sandders08,

Greetings from Chicagoland.

Jimsmith73 has had brake jobs last year, and RedTurbo still has about half the pads life left as well. I replaced pads & rotors for both fronts & rears in summer, everything with OEM parts, as well as replacing the brake fluid with ATE Blue Racing. I bled the system to perfection,but the brake pedal still has about 2-3 inches of free play, and they do seem a bit soft, seeming to lack braking power. The only thing I can think of is the master cylinder. If I put a new/rebuilt master cylinder and thebrakes still feel weak, the design might have been poor. But JimKW says his Volvos always have had good brakes, so I am not sure what the problem could be.

Good night,


JPN

 

If I couldn't get my brakes to feel just right I would take it to a Volvo shop, or have my wife take it if the brakes were real bad.

 

Hi Folks, just thought I'd give you an update, I took the 850 to an independent Volvo specialist who thought the brakes were not good (in fact they thought it would fail an MOT miserably), we are going to try replacing the master cylinder and see if it cures the problem....will keep you updated.