New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

So I've written here for help in a recent purchase of a 1994 Volvo 850 with 168k on it. I've had it for two weeks (only getting to drive it for a week before the breakdown). Thing ran like a dream from the dealership. Coming home from a trip I started slipping gears and eventually had to pull over and get towed the last 45 minutes of the drive. Just got my car into a reputable repair shop and thinking I was going to have to get a rebuilt transmission or something and come to find out that I need a new engine. There is so much blow-by that it is squirting oil out of every nook and cranny it can find. I bought the car for $3100. I have no idea how much an engine is going to run. They are going to try and look for a used one, but who knows. He said he hasn't had to look for an 850 engine in 2 or 3 years. He didn't even get to the transmission issue that I had originally took it in for. What am I looking at for price on this thing and is it worth it? Do I take the hit, junk the car and try to find something else? This is the exact reason I never bought a used car before this. Anyone intersted in an immaculate 850 body?

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Turbo or Non Turbo?

Are there any lemon laws in your state? Because that's absolutely horrible, and the dealer should be 100% responsible. In MN, I believe the window is 7 or 30 days for a lemon.

Good thing for you though, is that these engines are pretty plentiful and pretty cheap.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

It's a non-turbo...sorry I didn't add that. I bought it in Neb. and there is a 3 day window on vehicles that aren't sold "as-is." When i first drove it and then drove it solid for a week...it drove REALLY well as-is. So basically, once I signed the "as-is" paper, I'm out of luck. It's longer on new cars. I guess I'll find out in the morning about the engine. But then there's still the tranny that needs dealt with and it's leakage of fluid. Good to hear that maybe I'll get an inexpensive engine.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

^Arg, that is absolute BS. What a bastard dealer. Sounds like a shady ass dealership.

A motor should run about 500 bucks for a decent one, w/ relatively low mileage (50-70k) maybe. It's a lot cheaper than other cars.

I know for a camry, a decent motor was around 1000.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

www.car-parts.com has good prices and junkyard search

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Greetings,

>Thing ran like a dream from the dealership. Coming home from a trip I started slipping gears and eventually had to pull over and get towed the last 45 minutes of the drive.

Judging from your description, I don't think you need another engine. If the engine was so bad, it wouldn't have run like a dream in the first place.

Before swapping the engine (an engine may be as low as $500, but consider the labour), I would check the following:

1. Check engine oil level.

2. Check exact locations of oil & transmission fluid leaks. You don't have to have expertise; simply locate the leaks by visually inspecting and tell us. Digital photos may be of great help. If the engine is leaking oil from everywhere, it may need new seals, in which case the engine has to be taken out and may justify the cost of another engine. However, if oil isn't drippingbadly, you can get by by keep adding oil.

3. Check transmission fluid level & its condition; it has to be clear red and must not have burnt smell or debris. Checking the transmission fluid level is much different from checking engine oil, let me know if you need to know the procedure.

4. Check the diagnostic codes by yourself and tell us what you get, follow the instructions below:

*Engine: http://volvospeed.com/Repair/a2.html
*Transmission: http://volvospeed.com/Repair/a1.html
*I'll attach a pic that shows you the location of the diagnostic terminal.

5. Have a compression test performed at a different shop, not the "reputable" one you've already went to (unless the car is not in drivable condition). I recommend that you do this at a shop that specialises in Swedish/European makes. If not, get an estimate for compression test at a dealer. Stand by the technician (ask the shop first), write down the readings on the compression gage/diagnostic equipment and tell us the numbers. If the shop uses an equipment that can print out the result, get the printout.

*6. If compression test turns out OK, you won't need another engine (unless crankshaft oil seals are shot and the engine has to be taken out, in which case another engine may justify the cost). Replace ALL components in the PCV system.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/volvo850oiltrap.htm(yours is '94)
*I'll attach a pic as to what you need ($161.50 +shipping).

As to the slipping problem, I'm suspecting low/deteriorated transmission fluid or codes in the transmission ECU. All of the above may cost you $300 or so (if the compression turns out OK and if you decide to buy the PCV kit), so it is a matter of personal choice. But at least check for engine oil level, transmission fluid level, codes in the engine & transmission ECUs and locate oil/fluid leaks, all of which can be done by yourself without any tools/testers. If the engine turns out OK and if you'd like to buy parts (PCV kits, seals, etc...) but unsure about the installation, check with a shop to see if they accept parts from customers.

Good luck,


JPN

1st pic: Diagnostic terminal location.
2nd pic: PCV kit.

[IMG]local://upfiles/6892/F5B8CE13A20A44BDAA39E9FE63117CD1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]local://upfiles/6892/90C33FD7A7D14E7181F25D44D4B97BBC.jpg[/IMG]

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

I know the law in Canada and I know you're not here, but sounds to me like a quick consultation with a lawyer might be useful. Most will give you a half-hour for nothing. Maybe you get charged a hundred bucks. Either way, it certainly sounds to me like you have cause for a small claims suit. Signing a contract for an "as-is" product doesn't necessarily mean you have absolutely no recourse. If the vehicle was represented as being in serviceable and reliable condition, then having a catastrophic engine failure within a week and a hundred or so miles is questionable to say the least. I can't tell you you will get money, but I can tell you again, to consult with a lawyer, if only to be told to go pound sand. He may be able to point you to a way to get some or most of the cost of an engine paid for. Maybe you might be able to return the car for your money. Most Provinces in Canada have come out with or are about to come out with legislation that benefits the buyer, especially where a dealership is concerned. I can't see the U.S. being too different there. You may already have such legislation in place. Another alternative is that the state must have some piece of legislation regarding the sale of used cars. I'd get a copy of that and have a look if nothing else. I know it sounds complicated, but it isn't that bad.

... don't give up yet.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

So I've filed complaints with about everyone I can think of (BBB, state attorney general, local tv station). The dealer called me 3 times today and is not very happy about the complaints. He started out saying that he wasn't going to pay for the repair, but after talking and explaining things we ended the call with him saying "we'll just see what the mechanics come up with" and he hung up. Nice guy. The thing is, we're waiting for the mechanic to locate an engine, and he hasn't found one in 3 days. I used the search engine above and found a whole list of engines. I'm sure he'll be really thrilled to hunt down parts not knowing if it will be me or the dealer paying for them. The dealer had called the repair shop to double check my story so who knows what's going to happen with all of this.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Good for you!... stay the course, be nice about it, maintain the high moral ground so to speak, and keep us posted on what happens. (Nothing like being a squeaky wheel, eh?...)

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Seems like you jumped the gun a bit by not talking to the dealer first. But I guess this is for the better, because now they'll actually listen, while in the beginning, they might've blown you off.

Let us know how your search goes.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

you should have bought an aftermarket warranty or had it inspected before you bought it.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just stay the course and let us know how things turn out.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

We did call them when it first broke down and all they told us was "that's what you get when you buy a car with 168k miles on it." I took that to mean they weren't interested in helping. The most helpful information I've received is "you should have had a mechanic look at it before you bought it." I realize that now....thank you.

So I have an engine going in it now with 84k miles on it. In talking with the mechanic, he remembers my exact car coming in the shop a few month earlier (then owned by a young girl). He has it on the computer and everything and told her at that time she needed the engine replaced. She obviously took it to the place I bought it from and traded it in. The dealership, not knowing any different from me, saw that it ran great and without having a mechanic look at it, took it in on a trade. Only to find out when I bought it that it had a bad engine. The mechanic very honestly told me that he is 98% sure that the dealer had no idea when they sold it what problems it had. My question is this to you guys and I really need an honest answer because I'm not a fighting man. Complaining to all these places really bothers me because, as a teacher, I try to find the best out of everything I do and everyone I teach. Do I beleive the mechanic in that the dealer knew nothing about the car's problems and leave them alone with this deal AND take the hit on getting the work done? OR do I keep fighting with them. In my mind, whether they knew or not, they still sold me a car. Yes I could have gotten a warranty or had it checked out by a mechanic, but I'm just a young pup that's only ever bought new cars and taken very good care of them.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

I guess you'll have to decide whether the cost of this repair is something that doesn't bother you enough to pursue. If the money is not a problem, and the stress of trying to obtain satisfaction of your claim is more than you want to deal with, you have an answer.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Imo, if you think it's worth your time to argue, I'd go for it.

Even though the car is "as is", the dealer can't just go selling off bad cars, and saying that they're great. It's bad business, and as a dealer, they have a reputation that they need to hold up. Especially when they're not willing to help at all, and are real jerks about it.

Leave the claims to the BBB, and maybe they'll start calling you and will help you and be willing to help you out. Otherwise, just let the claim sit and let their repuation go bad.

There's no doubt that you are partially at fault for not taking the car to a mechanic, but a car should not fail only a couple hundred miles after you bought it. Especially after you just spent 3100 buying the car. Obviously you can expect that you might have some minor problems that need to be fixed, but a tranny/engine going out within a couple hundred miles is unacceptable.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

OK here's my question: How can a car run fine if it needs a new engine? What exactly is wrong with the engine?

The girl takes it to a repair shop, they tell her it needs a new engine, she drives it to a dealership, trades it in, and it's running fine. The dealer takes it on on trade, still running fine, then you buy it and it brakes down and needs a new engine. I'm sorry, but I think the dealership is still mostly at blame here for taking a car that needs a new engine in on trade. I would not feel bad at all trying to get them to at least help with the expenses. Trust me they made money selling you the car so splitting the cost of the repair 50/50 sounds reasonable to me. Think of it as the cost of doing business, not fighting with somebody.

RE: New owner - Bad experience
 

Super20,

Tough luck for them if they made a mistake and sold you a car with a bad engine. IMO it's their mistake, not yours. There are risks involved in selling used cars, so sometimes they make great deals and sometimes they don't. Their mechanic apparently did not detect the problem, so they should train the mechanic or get newer inspection equipment, not have you pay for the repairs.

They should pay up and learn the lesson. I would be very glad to see a used car salesman drink some lemon juice for a change.

RE: New owner - Bad experience NEW UPDATE
 

So I got a call again from the dealership today (after I'd called and left messages all weekend). He swore and yelled at me and accused me of blackmail because I told them that I wanted to get this finished and over with so my wife and I could start saying positive things about their business. He swore and yelled and I basically told him I was no longer interested in them paying 100% but would do a 50/50 deal. He talked to someone in the background and offered $1000....but he'd have to talk with his state people to see if he could do that. He'll call me tomorrow with some update that I'm sure will be bogus. He said that they would make the check out to me and have us sign a "good faith waiver," which I assume means we'll leave them alone after they pay us. At this point, I'll take what I can get out of them just to have my car back and be done with it. But the guy was a real ignorant ass.

RE: New owner - Bad experience NEW UPDATE
 

^Wow, what a jerkass.

Did you manage to track down a motor?

RE: New owner - Bad experience NEW UPDATE
 

Super 20,

I'm sorry that there are people like that, those who make others' lives harder unnecessarily.

If they want to offer you some bogus deal and want you to leave them alone, they're afraid of their reputation going down even further. I hope they offer you at least an acceptable deal, but if not, you could pm all of us the dealer's name and eventually we all will spread it around. Hey, it'll be anonymous and you are not spreading rumors to the random public; it'll be limited to the forum members only, like your friends so it is within legal means:). But hopefully things will turn out on your favour as the guy lost his temper, means things are tougher for him than for you. Keep cool (seems like you do) until they pay what theyought topay. If, however, the guy tries to screw you, I wonder if youcould hire a private detective, find out the dealer'scomplaint history and try for collective bargaining.

As for technical problems, we can help you with what we can to keep the cost down. If you're willing to do some work on your own, it'll even keep the cost lower. Either way, in the end you'll have learned a great deal of lessons (the dealer will have learned more, too bad for them[8D]) aboutthe importance of automotive maintenance& buying a car wisely.

A business like that, a businessthat doesn't take good care of customers or theirown reputation, will sooner or later godown and will end up paying much more later, which is for sure.

Let us know your progress.


JPN

RE: New owner - Bad experience NEW UPDATE
 

Do you have a lawyer in your family/friend that can give the guy a call? Maybe that might put some more pressure on him.Before spending money on his own lawyer he might just go ahead and pay up.

RE: New owner - Bad experience NEW UPDATE
 

The mechanic did a find a new used motor with 84k on it and the tranny only needs a new front seal. In fact, the motor should arrive today sometime and they'll probably install tomorrow.
I don't have a lawyer friend in the family....I have lots of people in the family that THINK they are lawyers and will offer up all sorts of advice. The dealer is supposed to call back today (which i doubt) and I'll post what goes on then.
I appreciate everyone's help here. You guys have been lifesavers! And yes, after this, I'm going to start playing mechanic when something goes wrong. These $1000 bills don't come easy.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Finally got the car back today from the shop. 73k mile engine, new gaskets and seals all around and it drives like a champ. Going to the dealer tomorrow to pick up a check for $1000 and to sign a "good faith" paper saying that they still alledge that they didn't know anything about the engine but are going to help me out anyway. Bascially, a way for me to get off their back. Thanks for all the help and advice. Look foward to posting some more help situations VERY soon. Have some projects to do on the car now.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Glad everything worked out for you. I think the dealer was reasonable.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Congratulations on having solved this conflict very well, IMHO. Now enjoy the car!!!

What did they do the replacement engine before installing it? Timing belt is due every 70K and tensioners every two timing belt changes. Check the timing belt cover to see if there is a sticker there with date and mileage written on it.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

He did replace the timing belt. The place I took it to was amazing. Very slow in getting the car back, but very meticulous and great attention to details. He gave me a list of everything he did to the car and told me that he wanted to see me back in 500 miles to do a check up on the car and see how things were going. The mechanic shop gave me a warranty on the engine and the labor and I also have a warranty from the salvage yard that the engine came from. The mechanic was very impressed with the engine saying that usually he has to reject engine the first shot from the salvage yard because of something, but this engine was very well taken care of.
I'll post this in the repair shops area, but I want to put it here as well. The name of the mehanic is Cordel Foreign Motors in Omaha, NE. Located just off of 84th and L street.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Glad to hear that this appears to have worked out... You'll enjoy the car a lot.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Picked up the check today from the dealer. Was very pleasant...but then...they were only paying for $1000 of the $2800 repair. Went to deposit the check as soon as I left. This deal is over!
On a slightly different note, my check engine light is on...is this normal for having a new engine put in? The mechanic didn't have the device to clear the codes and told me to just go to the dealer. Won't they charge me to clear the code? OR should I call the mechanic and tell him that that light is on?

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

You can got to AutoZone and get them to pull the code for you. They don't charge for it. Sometimes they will reset them and sometimes they won't.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

^He's got a non-turbo, so if I'm correct, he doesn't have the OBD-II port.

This is what you're looking for.
http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/Dtc-I...on-t47502.html
Hope that helps..

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

My 96 NA 850 has an OBD-II port under the coin holder thingy;)

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

And I'm pretty sure you don't have the OBD-I port...

If i'm correct....93-94 NA only had the OBD-I.
95 has both.
96-97 only has OBD-II.

The Turbo's and Rs have the OBD-I and OBD-II through '95.
I don't know about 96-97.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

'94 has both as well.

Hi Jimmy, hope you're well. Writing this from the airport where they charge $1/10 min.

Bye for now.


JPN

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

This is dedication right here lol.

So are you saying '94 N/A had this? Because now I dont know which years had what at all lol.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

I really don't think my 94 850 Turbo had the ODB-II port. I know I never used it if it did. My 95 definitely does have both.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

Arg...This is really frustrating...Because i've said that only '95s had both, but then I get people w/ '93//'94 Turbos telling me they have both.

RE: New owner - Bad experience UPDATE
 

My '94 does. - AB