I have a question RE: engine replacement for a Volvo V70. (I've read a few engine replacement posts here.)

Background:
I've owned a 2000 Volvo V70 (base) since 2010. When I bought the car, it had ~50k on it (the owner lived in NYC so only drove it rarely) for a really good price. I ended up replacing the engine about a year later. I also changed my mechanic, since my original mechanic told me the car was fine several times despite multiple issues that -- now I know -- are all signs of a head gasket ready to die. My new mechanic is great with older Volvos like mine, and it's been running great ever since. (Currently, there's over 140k miles on it now.)

However, since September, there has been a mysterious coolant leak issue. There was a small leak revealed by keeping the system under pressure, a few minor parts replaced, but the mysterious coolant leak continued. My mechanic told me that -- given everything else was fine -- the coolant was likely being lost internally, and that I may be looking at the engine being at the end of its life. To give you an idea, I would top off the coolant, and after about 30 miles, the coolant light would come on again. I was very careful about making sure that the coolant was topped off whenever possible, though there were 2 instances where the engine temperature went into the red while driving (before I knew that the coolant was being lost). There were also a few times when the "Check Engine" light blinked (which indicates a misfire--there was also some weird shaking), but it only happened when the car was started after sitting parked (not driven in over a day) and only for a very short distance before the blinking/shaking stopped completely. Again, the car drove great afterwards.

I did try a head gasket sealer (Blue Devil) in the hopes of extending the engine's lifespan (I know, last ditch attempt, right?). Right after I did the sealer, my car not only drove great, but the engine temp was much cooler than it had ever been (usually the needle points solidly to the middle after about 5 miles on the road, but during a 400+ mile trip, it stayed several ticks below that normal marker for most of the trip). I don't actually know if this is a good/bad/neutral sign, but it seemed worth mentioning.

So I arrived at my sister's for Thanksgiving (she lives in another state, thus the 400+ mile drive), and the only issue I had during the trip was a bit of a long start when I tried to turn my car back on after filling up the gas tank. But the car did start, the engine wasn't overheating, and I drove the rest of the way, no issues.

I didn't drive Thanksgiving Day. But when I tried to start my car the next day, it wouldn't start. I had it towed to a repair shop the next day (nothing was opened Friday), where they told me that the engine was the culprit.

My Question:
Right now, they've priced the engine replacement at about $4,500-5,000 (though they also told me they need to get a price on the engine, which they can't do until Monday). This seems much higher than when I had the engine replaced the first time (especially because when I had the engine replaced the first time, I had a bunch of other repairs done along with it, which eventually totalled ~$6,000). Does this estimate seem right? I'm thinking of shopping around on Monday to see if I can get estimates from other places (given that I chose this one based mostly on it being open on Saturday), specifically places that have a good history working on older Volvos.

But my real question is: Would it be reasonable for me to expect that if I replace the engine, the car could run another 9+ years? I've kept up maintanence on it, and I usually had 1-2 'big' repairs each year (such as replacing the alternator, etc.), and the overall maitenance for the car has been ~3k annually (not counting the engine replacement, which was mostly due to inexperience owning a car and listening to a bad mechanic).

I ask because I really love my car, and I'd like to save it. But I am also stranded at my sister's, working remotely for at least part of next week (my boss is thrilled...) until I've dealt with the car (either fixing it or scrapping it). As much as I want my car repaired, this would be its second engine replacement, and I'm not sure if that's a good sign or not. That being said, I know this car (the sounds it makes when it drives, the issues I've already addressed/fixed, etc.), and I am not thrilled at the prospect of trying to find another older Volvo and trying to get its full repair history (if I even can).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
drago

 

You're a 10,000 mile per year driver.

Whatever you'd select as a replacement vehicle would cost you more than $5,000.
Whatever your down payment was plus the first 12 payments ALONE would likely be over $5,000.

Are you talkin' another junkyard engine or one from a rebuilder?

With your "9 year plan" you gotta consider:
Transmission maintenance..Your '99's 4 speed is hearty and rebuilds much more cheaply than the 5 speed unit in the 2001-2007.
Have you maintained the fluid in yours or did you believe the foolish lie about "lifetime fluid"?
While apart, it could be time to have the 4 speed rebuilt. Don't go the junkyard route for transmissions.

AC maintenance..Sooner or later the AC clutch will go. the evaporator and the condenser are both perennial "eventuals".Seals go hard.

Suspension maintenance..Not just shocks and struts, the bushings on which these parts pivot get hard and dry with time.

See what engine options you have.

To LussiRaw: Stupendous post....really helpful too!

 

Actually, I'm closer to a 15k/year drive now. I used to work from home (for about 5 years) so I didn't have to commute at all. With commuting, however, I'm driving much more.

I'm not sure. Is an engine from a rebuilder a better option (in terms of engine lifespan)?

By fluids, do you mean break fluid, oil, and such? If so, then, yes, I've maintained them. (I've honestly never heard of "lifetime fluid" before.)

I believe I already am dealing with this... the frion (or whatever it's called) is being lost over time. Is this what you mean? If so, I've put off the repair for now.

I don't have my full maintenance book with me, but I believe the bushings (not sure of the term) were replaced about 1-2 years ago.

So, you're not concerned about this being the second engine replacement? I do believe the first replacement engine was a junkyard engine. Would an engine from a rebuilder be a better option?

Thanks so much for your reply!
drago

 

going from car won't start to it needs a new engine replacement is a huge step. starting with a potential head gasket leak, there are tests to see if the head gasket is in fact leaking or if you have cracked head etc. The no start could be a long list of things not related to the engine. to run the car needs fuel, spark, the correct mix of air and compression. So your no-start could be fuel pressure, could be an air intake leak, weak spark etc. Replacing the entire engine for $4000 is not a practical investment as you can buy a V70 that's running for that amount. Did you ask about the cost for replacing the head gasket or installing a used cylinder head? (again that assumes the no start problem has been properly diagnosed). What I'd do is ask for a compression test - if the compression is adequate (150 PSI for turbos and 180 PSI for NA engines is normal but a car can start with lower numbers), then they should figure out if there's a fuel delivery/pressure issue, an air intake issue etc. A car with a leaking head gasket should be able to start unless its totally blown...(I once had a head gasket go on a BMW engine - blew a 1/2 inch segment between two cylinders - so those two had like 60 PSI - but the car would start and run....).

 

Hi
Couple of things on your thread cause me concern, ie your mechanics advise, if the car is losing coolant internally that should be seen when checking the oil, coolant and oil don't mix, you get that dreaded creamy foam on your oil filler cap, normal cause head casket has blown or cracked cylinder head, answer = replace cylinder head or skim if not cracked, or it is losing coolant through a hose, leaking radiator, or the heating matrix inside the car, ie wet carpets in the front of the car.
The other thing is, is it worth it, it is a twenty year old car, not sure how v70's are holding their price in the states but over here in Sweden you can pick up a 2000 V70 for 1000 dollars, high milage an all :-). I know there is an attachment to your car, I have a v70 on my land waiting for me to get around to replacing either the head or maybe the total engine refit but if it costs me more than 250 dollars it is off to the scrappies. Is it really worth spending 4-5000 dollars on such an old car?

 

like mt says

 

There was no creamy foam (or any other sign that the coolant was leaking there) in the oil. There were no wet carpets or other indicators inside the car. Nothing showed up when the system was put under pressure. Thus 'mysterious coolant leak' - since the car was clearly losing coolant, but we could not find where the coolant was being lost. If the source of the leak had been found, I would've had it fixed.

drago

 

My thinking is first figure out the no start cause then work on where the coolant may be going once that is sorted out. (you'd hate to replace an engine only to learn the injector relay is fried etc). I'd be checking fuel pressure at the rail, spark (easy with a distributor/single coil, a tool is required for cars with coil packs), are the plugs wet after trying to start? does the car have compression in all 5 cylinders? what happens if you spray some starter fluid in via a vacuum line?

 

Yes! I agree completely. Please take pity on us and tell us they actually found something wrong with it. It was running when you shut it off. My guess is it needs a $100 electronic doodad somewhere. The phantom coolant leaks are usually the heater core, but you be the judge.

If the engine really is bad, would I invest $5000 in it? No. They are pretty tough old cars, but I don't see taking that gamble due to the electronic complexity. For you to keep driving it, most of the onboard computers need to keep working. The interiors don't seem to be very durable either.

 

Re-reading your post it all point to a head casket that has gone, but it is strange that your not getting oil/coolant mix,( My mechanic told me that -- given everything else was fine -- the coolant was likely being lost internally, and that I may be looking at the engine being at the end of its life.) to lose coolant internally ie in the engine the coolant has to mix with the oil it is the only place it can go. This results in a scum seen on the oil filler cap or in the coolant reservoir ( if there is oil in the coolant) the only other place the coolant leaks where you can't see it is in the heater coil which results in wet carpets/ damp interior, window screen misting up more than normal. The fact that you lost so much coolant after 30 miles suggests quite a major leak and the fact that after putting in the head gasket sealer the car ran okay again suggests a head gasket failure. This would be easily diagnosed by doing a compression test on all cylinders a fifteen minute job for a competent mechanic and a first stage check on diagnosing what is wrong with the engine.

I appreciate that if you had been able to find the leak you would have had it fixed but these leaks can be real tricky devils to find, I had one on my v70 by the top hose just enough to occasionally leak by enough to cause the coolant level to drop over time, took me ages to find it. Tell tales signs are crud build up around the leak. But your leak sounds to be quite substantial.

The other thing that points to a head casket is that your car overheated twice before you knew that the coolant was leaking, a sure sign that your head casket has gone.

Not writing this to be condescending, just trying to share my knowledge of the possible reasons why this has happened, but then we get back to the rub of is it worth paying someone to fix it when a replacement vehicle would be the same costs. The devil you know or buying someones else's cast off :-(. Appreciate the fact that your not home and you love your car and would like to save it.
Hope you had a good thanksgiving at your sisters and that you find a good mechanic and get this sorted or find a sweet replacement,
Ps would really like to know the end result :-p

 

so start by getting the engine running. As other posters have noted, when it comes to coolant leaks, there's only a few places to look and those should be done before going to an iffy big ticket solution. 1) look closely at the radiator seams - any white deposits? 2) how do the hoses look - don't forget to look at the ones on the back of the block going to the heater core 3) anything wet under the overflow reservoir or any deposits? 4) how's the heater core look? Look for RobertDIY's vids on Youtube for replacing the heater core - to start you can remove the driver's side of the center console to get a look at the bottom of the heater core. usually the bottom of the core rusts or the o-rings for the hoses into the core start to weep. The telltale sign is if there is a sweet odor when you first start up and the heat comes on. 4) head gasket. possible cause but I'd suss out the other possibilities first. Look for any white smoke out the exhaust and any sweet odor out of the tailpipe. Then inspect the plugs, measure compression, consider an HC test for the coolant and look for any discoloration foaming in the coolant. If you can't find the source and are considering a new engine or a rebuild to solve a leak, I'd consider another shop familiar with Volvos. Personally I'd do the hoses/heater core stuff before dropping in an engine or even a stop-leak product.