Howdy, newb here.

Problem: Cooked Car.

Backstory: Bought a used Volvo from original owner. Original owner was a wife who drove it short distances. Eventually was given to daughter for college. Had a lot of issues; noted by original owner in Maintenance Schedule. No actual repair records. When in the process of discovery prior to purchase, mechanic noted some oil around engine block. His opinion was possible sludging but impossible to determine without dropping oil pan and putting in a bit of time. Since it was a Saturday and both our schedules were tight, he convinced me there was an outside chance there could be a problem but not enough to warrant passing on the car. We took a chance and bought it. 11 months later, the car is toast. Smokes like anything with sounds coming from Turbo. CAR NOT ROADWORTHY.

Synopsis:

Car: 2000 XC70 T5, 125k miles, 2nd owner. CarFax, nothing scary.

Purchased For: Teenage daughter. Safe learning vehicle. $4k.

Reason Purchased: Inspected by mechanic. Deemed safe.

Usage: Kid mostly drives it 10mi a day and were slated to give it its first oil change. A little over in miles by last month, but nothing crazy irresponsible.

Our Maintenance History: Car not serviced for anything due to light driving for 11 months. Scheduling a routine oil change.

Trouble: One afternoon, daughter says car's had trouble starting in school lot. Told me this at first sign of trouble. Driving home the engine light turns on. I go out and try to start car after having it sit a few hours. No go. I can tell it's not the battery.

1st Appointment: Get the car to start next day to drive 12 miles to garage. Car is worked on for three days and given bad news due to sludging, should we proceed? Yes, one and ONLY time to try and save "Sludger". Car seems fixed and return home, combustion pressure normal again, no problems at all for three-plus weeks. As instructed, we return at the 500mi mark to change oil one more time. Standard procedure.

2nd Appointment: Oil changed. Upon returning home, car makes ugly noise. Return to garage ASAP. Guy says problem is probably turbo. Nothing he can do.

2nd Opinion: Take car to another garage. This mechanic says, and he'd sign an affidavit, that the 1st garage overfilled the oil by some 3 quarts. Uh-oh. Not only is it making noise, it's now smoking like crazy. It burns through a quart every half-hour. Point, it's not burning off. We've tried. NONE OF THESE SYMPTOMS OCCURRED UNTIL THE SECOND OIL CHANGE.

Details ( Long as to reduce questions, so you may skip this ):

Fast Forward. Last month, kid informs us the Engine Light is on. Take it not to the current mechanic, but one I'd used once before on another vehicle. References, seems OK. And may still be. More ahead.

So, car doesn't always want to turn over, but luckily did to take it to the garage.

Garage does some tests and comes to the conclusion that car is so clogged with sludge that engine compression is down to 13%. It is unknown how long the engine had been this way; we assume it's very possible it's the main reason why the previous owner unloaded the car with such low mileage. Granted, our kid drove it for 11 months without an oil change. Again, not many miles put on the car. Maybe 5000. In hindsight it was probably our second mistake.

OK ... so garage, whom I trust at this points says they flushed out the old oil and found it was regular non-synthetic motor oil of a grade on par for use in our geographic zone. The mechanic then argues that the recommended oil for use in the car, regular, SHOULD NOT have been used in the first place, due to Volvo issues with sludging. So they replace it with synthetic and proceed with more tests on sensors and so on.

Still, they're not completely sure what's going on. They know there's sludge, but they put in new spark plugs to help the starting issue. Fine. Then they say the computer started throwing error codes "left and right". The codes were not noted on the final print out, but we did get a disclaimer saying that the issue could have cooked the engine, did we understand this? Yes ... we understood. Continue to flush all the crap out of there in the hopes the engine could be saved. They show me the filter on the table. The oil has the consistency of soft peanut butter. No wonder the engine couldn't breathe.

Now, the mechanic goes on to say that the likely cause of this is "lack of maintenance" by the original owner. But that owner kept meticulous records of every major thing done to the car. Frankly, one reason we bought it is because it seemed that half the car had already been replaced, even the Timing Belt! So ... good/bad reasons to buy/avoid. Many would take a look at their Maintenance Schedule and say, "Pffft ... this car's a lemon!" Sure wish I had a Time Machine.

Following this? So we go in thinking it's a blown sensor and it turns into cooked engine. Bill goes from $900 to $1200. Ouch. We know that all this work may yield a bad ending. Which it did. More ahead.

The Good News: The garage proclaimed that engine pressure is back up to 78%, within the numbers for an older car.

So, the initial work is done, they believe they caught the sludging in time before it cooked the engine though it's still possible that problems could lie ahead. We're told to return within 500 miles to do one more oil change. When that occurred, we made an appointment.

Since the first visit to the garage, for over three weeks, no problems with the car. Starts fine, no performance issues.

Car goes back to garage at around 550mi, oil is changed, pay bill, Goodbye, thanks.

On my way home, the car makes an awful noise. I tell the garage this, they say, "Come on back." I did.

The lead mechanic goes for a drive with me. It doesn't really do it as before, naturally, but then, the noise kicks in, and the car is smoking like crazy. NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. "Easy with her, let's just get it back to the garage."

He checks it out a bit and determines the noise is from the turbo. Sounds like grinding. Dunno if he looked down to check the oil level.

Did that second oil change do something? Did the engine get killed once it went from 13 to 78% pressure? Did a faulty sensor screw things up?

Verdict: The turbo seems compromised. "I'm not putting any more money into this, but for fun, how much for a new turbo?" "If it were me, I'd put a whole new engine in." "Nah, I'll pass." "But I think a new turbo is around $1200." "Nahhh ... too much money." "Shame, low miles." "Yes. And I know you hate to lose a patient."

So we head home with "Sludger" completely bummed. It was a risk, we tried, we lost.

Then wife say, how about a second opinion? "Let's take it to my guy and see what he says." Ugh ... more money, but what the Hell.

The second mechanic says, yeah, it's smoking like crazy. He also discovers by emptying the oil AGAIN that the last person who filled it at the other garage put in THREE QUARTS over spec! He saved the oil and says if we choose to pursue this in Small Claims Court he'd sign the affidavit that the first garage overfilled the oil chamber. On top of this, he also says the smoke is because the engine is burning oil. NEVER DID THIS BEFORE. White and gray smoke. In fact, he said that in a half-hour of running it, the car had drunk 1 quart of oil. NEVER DID THIS BEFORE EITHER. He also remarks that the bill seems very high.

SO ... bad things done all around. Perhaps we waited too long to change the oil after buying. Maybe synthetic oil was NOT used by the previous owner, the sludging suggests this. So if Volvo recommended using natural oil and shouldn't have – ? The fact the first garage that did the majority of the work overfilled the engine, it makes me wonder what else was going on.

Net: Do we have a case?

How long can a car be driven overfilled with oil, in this case three weeks between oil changes, before it cooks the engine? I'd suspect quite a while.

Case For: Evidence the first garage overfilled the engine. That in turn puts everything they did into question. Everything was fine until the final oil change just two days ago. What the heck?

Case Against: Unknowns. Impossible to know how long the sludging issues existed; indeed, initial inspection of the car revealed oil around the engine block which could indicate problems.

What we're looking for: At this point, it's only reasonable due to unknowns to ask for money spent on the work done back. Replace the car? Pffft ... too many unknowns. We can't prove they overfilled the car the first time, only the second.

Thanks for reading this Novella of Grief and any kind responses are much welcomed.

 

I doubt you have much case, but I'm not a lawyer.

If a shop can get sued because someone brought in a car that turned into a can of worms, there are a lot of cars out there that every shop would refuse to service.

I doubt it was overfilled by 3 quarts. He saved the oil and then poured it into measurable containers? And how did one mechanic determine the oil was not synthetic? Not that it matters because that car doesn't require synthetic anyway.

 

I would go back to shop 2nd shop and ask what your recourse is with 1st shop. Mainly what is industry standard in your state/area. Over filling oil can damage an engine and it sounds like yours wasn't great going in.

You may want to check laws in your area. I know in my state that talking to a mechanic is considered "an expert opinion" and therefore held to a higher standard. The kicker is you only have to believe you are talking to a mechanic by their appearance...

Then I would go (armed with knowledge) to the 1st shop and ask them to explain how they can fix your unhappiness. If they say something condensing or ask what you would like done. Shoot for the moon, new engine and turbo installed for free with a 5 year warranty.

Be willing to negotiate something fair (money back for stuff that didn't fix your problem or made it worse at a minimum.) Be calm and stick only to facts. Know what recourse you have legally. Let them know you know the laws but don't use them as a threat and see what you can work out.

If nothing works out, you know your legal recourse. I know my shop manager is more likely to make a compromise with someone that is unhappy but clam and nonthreatening. We have replaced engines and transmissions that failed after being the last to touch them. We will also refuse to work on cars with no or overfilled oil without explaining that the damage could already be done.

 

Oil dip stick... learn where it is, use it to check oil level.

 

ES6T: I know it's thin stuff particularly when they don't know the car. We all know it's best to use the same guy on the same car so they get to understand its quirks. Plus, these things happen when people need their hides pulled from the fire and there's a negative outcome, so the garage is the culprit. Not necessarily. On the other hand, there's a lot of folks out there with a "mechanic badge" who aren't even certified to work on certain cars. I avoided the dealership simply because of the expense. That doesn't mean they could fix it either.

Eric: Well as I said earlier, the 2nd mechanic said they did overfill it by some 3 quarts. That car requires 6.1 qts of regular oil. He found nearly ten when he drained it and saved it in a jug. He said he measured it coming out and what he put back in, saving the rest, and would sign an affidavit if need be.

Trying: We've been checking the level ever since we got it. That wasn't the issue. The 1st garage suggested the original owner wasn't maintaining the vehicle. We've got notes that suggest otherwise. Although, who knows what the daughter was doing with it? That's one of the big unknowns.

Update: So between driving it back the 12mi from the garage and the 2nd guy looking at it, there's now NO MEASURABLE OIL from the dipstick. It all burned off. Today, going to look at it again and see where it went. It's not on the road, I can tell you that. The radiator? Oh boy. I hope not.

 

That reminds me of a quote I heard once:

"If you think hiring a professional mechanic is expensive, try hiring a cheap one."

Not that I blame the shop though. They may have tried to help you out when they were brought a car that was poorly maintained and they were not fully familiar with.

 

ES6T: "If you think hiring a professional mechanic is expensive, try hiring a cheap one."
Ouch. I can relate. The 2nd guy was twice the rate, noted.

Update: Haven't checked the radiator 'cuz I found it ain't easy to access the cap. Interesting. No oil on the road, still. So it either burned up or is in Other Spaces.

Maintenance Schedule: Some indications there may have been prior worry but nothing overt. Noted it was garaged for at least one period. Bet they didn't empty the fluids. Seems the original owner changed the oil every 7,500 miles. Also, most of its use was done by 2007, nearly 90k. It took nearly 8 years to clock in another 35k. I'll bet it sat around alot doing short local trips.

Jackpot! I left the Maintenance Schedule in the 1st mechanic's care to use as reference, and whaddaya know, it expressly says to NOT USE OIL ADDITIVES. I wonder if they saw that?

 

Everybody goes through this, and really there's no solution. Old cars blow up all the time. Who is to blame? It would feel so good to blame somebody else, but you just can't make it stick. If you own a car you have to pay to fix it when it breaks.

 

Firebird: Well it's a first for us! We've bought used before and this took us by surprise.

What do you think happened?

My guess: The new compression level blew tired seals out. Dunno what to make of the turbo.

After this happened I read here it's probably not a good idea to switch oil types this late on an older car. The detergents also probably didn't help.

But WHY did this happen upon the second oil change and not after the first visit? The car was asymptomatic for over two weeks prior!

Lemon Laws won't help us.

 

Switching to synthetic isn't going to cause problems- that's a myth.

There is a lot of missing information here. What exactly did the first garage do? How did they "flush" the sludge out of the engine? What tests were done?

What exactly is meant by "13% pressure" and "78% pressure"? Those are not terms usually used. 13 psi and 78 psi on a compression test? Both are too low.

 

So Vrooom, where did you leave off with this car? My take is that if the car is able to start and run after the overfill incident, any permanent damage would be to seals due to overly high crankcase pressure. If you pop off the spark plug cover - do you see oil pooled on top of the engine (a sign crankcase pressure pushed oil out the filler cap and possibly you have a clogged up the PCV). If the first shop did a "desludge" using something like Seafoam in the oil, its quite possible that pushed the newly loosened sludge into the PCV system as well. Try placing a rubber glove (ie surgeons glove) over the filler cap. Does it inflate? The turbo does have seals which if they go can contribute to blue or white smoke - enough to risk the catalytic converter in short order. Is the car consuming oil or oil and coolant?
Finally the big risk item is the head gasket. if that goes, you may lose compression, get oil or HCs in the coolant or coolant in the oil. That's where the compression test ES6T noted becomes a key diagnostic along with a coolant HC test. The thing here in my mind is to determine if you need some moderate repairs (ie replace or rebuild the turbo, replace the PCV system, replace some cam seals etc). If you need to replace the head gasket then that is a much larger job and may get you thinking of an engine swap (there's a lot of XCs in junk yards due to failed transmissions so finding a replacement engine shouldn't be that difficult). First step is to get your trusted mechanic to explain what diagnostics have been done and then determine what's next in the process. If you know the test that were run, then you can research what the results mean. (to the point of "% pressure" in the engine is meaningless without context).

 

To answer your question about "what do I think happened", the problem is we don't know what's wrong with it now. If somebody competent fixes it, then that person could say "I removed this part and you can see here that this part failed". But until you reach that point, there just isn't a lot you can conclude.

 

I'm both late to this and haven't read everything 100%, but I'll offer my input anyway...
A new turbo is NOT $1,200. I could get a good used one from the junkyard for $60. And it could be something as simple as a leak on an oil seal.
The car is not a lemon. You shouldn't switch around between dino oil and synthetic. That's not good for the engine. Although Volvo recommends conventional, you should use full synthetic oil, not conventional, not a blend.
From the sounds of all this, the car was driven too lightly and maintained by the little mileage that was put on it rather than the time that goes by. Sure, there were only 5,000 miles on one of the oil changes you're referring to, but that's 11 months of using the car. You have to account for the time the car was running at all, not just the time it was driving. This car is turbocharged, there are a few simple things that can be done to properly care for the turbo and the engine in general. Read your owner's manual, it is a wealth of information.
Something tells me the previous owner didn't take as good care of the car as he claims.
The car is likely not beyond repair, it will just take some time to get it back to where it should be. I think mt6127 is spot on with everything. Again, compression numbers in PSI, not percentages...

 

ES6T: Here's the service record verbatim:

Replaced:

Oil Sump O Ring
Turbo Oil Line O Ring
Oil P/U Tube O Ring
Oil Thermo O Ring
Oil Pum O ring
OEM Oil Filter w/Gasket
OEM Oil Pressure Sender
Intake Manifold Gaskets
OEM Oil Trap
Semi-Syn Oil
Engine Oil Stabilizer
New Spark Plugs
New Serpentine Belt
Water Outlet Gasket
Thermostat
Coolant Temp Sensor

Labor, in addition to those installations:

Flushed Oil Trap Hoses under intake; Flushed Engine and Oil Pan.

"Oil Pressure was severely restricted, on manual gauge it was showing less than 12lbs under acceleration ... after repairs the manual gauge shows 78lbs of Oil Pressure. Customer advised to return upon 500mi for a fresh oil change."

Me: It was upon returning from that 500mi oil change the car exhibited symptoms. Things noted: The Tuneup, which it probably needed anyway, NO mention of the PCV, I had requested they look at it ( of course the invoice doesn't indicate it though it's probable they did and it may be part of those replacement kits in the Parts List above ), all they said was "a bunch of codes were thrown" but as you see not one code is referenced. Look, I took my own car there a couple of years back on a failed Yaw Sensor, and they gave me the codes for that. Same guys. So yeah, it is odd they're not listed here. The only real things I know now is that, 1) They shouldn't have changed oil types so late in the life of the vehicle, and, 2) They overfilled the Engine by some three quarts according to the second mechanic.

 

MT6: Thanks for the reply. Yep, I'm familiar with your glove test, I read it in another thread. I'll try all those things you listed.

The car is still parked on the curve awaiting my ultimate decision. We've been busy with Life so I've not done anything since early June. We have a car tax bill pending so that will figure as well. Plus, our little graduate has little use for a car right now as it turns out.

The oil simply burned up/disappeared below. Your assessment matches mine: between the stabilizer and newly goosed Oil Pressure, the seals got blown out. In fact, a kid who witnessed my wife starting it ( not happy about that since I discovered oil was down to nothing via the dipstick ) said that he thought it was time for the Engine Seals to be replaced anyway. Agreed on the PCV too.

Coolant is fine and not polluted with oil. There's a clue right there.

BTW, to those reading MY sludge, you will NOT find a radiator cap – these cars don't have one. So, if you're suspicious that you're leaching oil to the radiator, look at your coolant reservoir.

That smoke? I've read that often is attributed to Ring Failure. Uh-oh!

 

The PCV and the oil trap are the same thing... the oil trap and components are the PCV system.

 

Okay, that makes a little more sense. The pressure was PSI, not percent and it was oil pressure, not compression.

Changing oil types from conventional to synthetic won't cause problems and has nothing to do with this. I still think a lawsuit is a bit unfair, since the shop was brought a can of worms and they tried to fix it. If it was indeed overfilled, you might have something based on that, but I have my doubts about that too.

 

bmd: Thanks for the input. Yep, goosey with the terminology. Guilty. You caught my drift. True, we were suspect by not changing it earlier though in my defense, I didn't realize an idle car require more frequent oil changes. News to me. Yes, I realize there's a difference between time and use, whichever prevails, as this is an issue with my Highlander, therefore with that vehicle, time prevails as opposed to miles. I confess that there's a big difference between getting extended notation in the Maintenance Schedule as provided by the previous owner as opposed to getting the Service Invoices ... see, the devil was probably in those records, and we didn't get those. Big Mistake. Thanks for the verification on the PCV and Oil Trap, I figured as much.

ES6T: YEAH ... big blunder on Ford's part! What the heck? The first garage said as much ... verified by the second garage. To recap, the second garage discovered that the only thing we have, really, is the first garage overfilled with oil. Since that oil virtually disappeared in that short 8mi drive back home, it hardly matters, 'cuz, like, it's gone. I wonder though if somehow the rings are screwed now. Not sure about The Turbo.

So, I'll be outside when I can this week to perform MT6's tests. I'll report back.

Man! ain't this fun?

 

Not sure I follow how Ford plays into this

 

ES6T: Ford built all the alphabet Volvos. The Swedes the numbered ones. That's what I've read. Now The Chinese own Volvo.

Yeah, I wasn't clear. Volvo, aka Ford, advising us to fill our crankcases with traditional motor oil, not the synthetic. The traditional seems to cause sludging in more cases than not.