(If you just want to provide advice without the background story, jump down to the large Q.)

OK, a few of you have seen my recent repairs to my Eclipse (after years of punishment and neglect it's starting to catch up to me). So, here's the latest.

About four years ago, my clutch reservoir ran dry, the pedal had no resistance and I couldn't get into gear. I refilled it and was on my way (taking the advice of the auto parts clerk). I didn't think about bleeding air out or anything, but apparently it wasn't an issue because it's run fine since. Recently, it started acting up again, so I checked the reservoir and it was empty again. I drove down to Autozone (anyone else drive a manual with no clutch, interesting experience, getting go from a stoplight can be a bit hard to get used to). The guy at Autozone came out and looked at it, got the brake fluid to fill up the reservoir. At this point, concern set in. The reservoir was filthy, when we added the fluid, a murky gray/black substance swirled around. We took some rags and pulled some out, but it clearly needs a complete flush. The clutch didn't get any better the next day, still had no resistance and limited effectiveness. Then all of a sudden it started working. Then it stopped again. I assume there's something clogged in the lines.

Q: So here's my question: I'm thinking that while I'm at it, I'll just replace the master and slave cylinders, but I don't know if I should go with the rebuild kit or the brand-new complete package. The difference is about $90 total, so if I can get away with it, I'd like to save the money. (The Haynes manual says to do a replacement instead of a rebuild if there are scratches inside the master cylinder, but I don't have time to take it all apart until I do the complete job on New Year's weekend.)

Anyway, here are some pictures that I took later on to document the nastiness of my clutch fluid (the blue rag was dipped in the reservoir)...

 

Hi 99VV70,

If the clutch reservoir is shared with the brakes, I would go with a new unit, but if not (doesn't look like it in the pic), I would go with rebuilt or find parts & replace the seals.

Have to go to work (the temp is expected to drop down to 32F tonight) so I'll try to reply when I come home; which is about 10 hours from now.


JPN

 

There are two separate reservoirs. After posting last night, I read through the Haynes manual a bit and it said to replace the unit if there are scratches, score marks inside the cylinders (master/slave). What I think I'm going to do is get the local shop to have them on hand (order them if necessary) and then take it apart and figure out if I need the complete replacement or if the rebuild kits will work. I have a feeling though that there might be scratches since I ran it without fluid for some amount of time and now it's losing pressure. I think the scratches might be letting fluid leak past the "plunger" or whatever it's called (just a guess). Hopefully the parts shop will agree to that plan and not make me pay for it if I want to have them order it so it's on hand.

 

its definitely worth your time and money to get the new kit. Dont cheap out on it, as we've all learned in the past short cuts only last so long.

 

Unfortunately, yes if your system had been operated without the fluid for some time, inside the master cylinder might have been scored, in which case a new kit would be more cost-effective & headache-free.

If you plan to keep the 3-Lozenge for longer than 6 months, I would get away with a rebuilt/repair, but if you plan to keep it longer, yes go with a new kit. And make sure that the new kit is OEM.


JPN

 

I would just buy a rebuilt one.

 

All right! I'm up to step 2 in my latest project for the Eclipse.

Step 1: Come to terms that the car needs fixing.
Step 2: Buy parts.

So, I went ahead and bought all the parts today for a big job this weekend. I'm taking Monday off so that I'll have 4 days when I won't need my car. Here's my parts list and a picture.
Clutch Master Cylinder
Clutch Slave Cylinder
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Alternator Serpentine Belt
Power Steering / A/C Serpentine Belt
Oil Filter (one for the Eclipse and one for the Volvo - since it was free anyway with the oil)
Oil
Coolant
Shop Paper Towels

Last time I changed the timing belt it took 3 days, hopefully it will go faster this time (now that I've drilled a hole in the wheel well to access one of the bolts and figured out the combination off extender bolt and 3-jaw puller that will get the crankshaft pulley off). Anyway, here areall the parts.

 

I see some AutoZone brand parts (Duralast); I used to buy them for company trucks.

The shop towel was a bit pricey for my taste so half the time I used to used regular kitchen paper towels. Another nice addition is a box of nitrile gloves, to keep your hands oil/grease free (except they should be avoided in freezing weather; they'll freeze your hands[X(]).

Looks like you're going to have some fun. I hope you have enough clutch fluid. If you don't have one yet, I recommend that you invest in Motive Products' pressure-bleeder for clutch & brakes. It's $50 but is good quality and is made in CA, USA. Every market is flooded with made in Chin@, but I myself still try to buy made in USA whenever possible. Bottled water may be an exception, noone beats French[8D]. Andmy favourite is Vittel.


JPN

 

Yup, Autozone came out cheapest and they pricematched some things (timing belt was $51.99 at their price, but only $28.99 on www.innerauto.comand they matched it).

Yeah, the shop towels are a bit of a waste, but they are more durable than the kitchen paper towels and I like them a bit more. I totally agree with the nitrile gloves point too. I go through boxes of those pretty quickly, but I have a full box already. My friends like to make fun of me for using the gloves, but it makes clean up so much easier.

I hope I have enough fluid as well, but I'm pretty close to Autozone and can pick up some more if I need to (it's nice having 2 cars). I'll have to look into the pressure bleeder, that's the first time I've heard it mentioned.

Btw, I realize I'm also wasting a ton of money with the 50/50 coolant. It's more expensive per ounce and half of it is tap water! I just know that by the time I'm refilling the coolant I'm not going to feel like measuring coolant and water separately to make sure I have an even mix. This will save a bit of time and effort at the end of the job.

 

FCP Groton sells them too:
http://www.fcpgroton.com/volvo850brakes.htm

OR Motive's home:
http://www.motiveproducts.com/index.html

Price should be about the same at each shop.

Yes, the shop towel is definitely durable and I like them better, except I could not afford them all the time, so I kind of used them & generic paper towels.

Yes, that 50/50 coolant is such a bogus. I noticed it immediately after I bought the first bottle. Never bothered it afterward, though[8D].


JPN

 

I bought a bottle of 50/50 once when I had a leak at Walmart and needed to refill to get home. Now I just buy the full strength stuff and fill the 50/50 bottle with 50/50 so I don't have to mix every time I need some. I use the blue shop towels all the time. Any time I see them on sale somewhere I pick up a roll.

 

Yes as long as the shop towels are on sale I grab a whole bunch of 'em.


JPN

 

I've got this nervous anticipation since I get to start working on this later tonight or tomorrow morning. I'm remembering all the issuesthat came up last time I did the timing belt on this car... Three (long) bolts hold the cover on. I had to remove 2 engine mounts to lower and raise the engine to get two of them out and then drilled a hole in the wheel well to get the third out. And the crankshaft pulley took forever to get off (broke a 2-ton 3-jaw puller and upgraded to a 5-ton puller). I also broke a wrench on a bolt to swivel the alternator down and get that belt off. Argh... should be fun.

 

Hi 99VV70,

We can help you with the procedure, if you can take pics around the timing belt.

As to the crank pulley, I wonder if Mitsu uses similar set-up like Honda does. I believe Honda likes to use a small metal key on the crankshaft to keep the crank pulley in place. If so, the pulley could easily pulled out, if you wiggle & pull on it at the same time (+WD40). This was the case on my '88 Accord LX-i. First it seemed impossible but when I gave the 2nd shot, the pulley came off like nothing, even without a puller.

A good quality wrench wouldn't break just by applying torque (unless you had applied a giga ft-lbs of force[:@]). Was it a name brand's wrench (Snap-on, Craftsman Professional, etc...) or was it a generic wrench made in Chin@ or T@iw@n? A 1/2" drive breaker bar + 6-point socket would make the job easier, but if the clearance is tight, you could perhaps use a 3/8" drive breaker bar + 6-point socket combo. I have a Snap-on's soft-grip 3/8" drive bar, and there is no going back to Craftsman once you've used the Snap-on version. I used it all the time on the 850.

On a high-torque application, make sure to use the box-end wrench, as the open-end applies force to only 2 points on a bolt/nut, which is more likely to round-off the fastener as well as greater chance of ruining the wrench (I know there are situations where the only alternative is an open-end).

So, go over the service manual before taking anything off, take pics and let us help you and share the fun!


JPN

 

WARNING: MANY PICTURES BELOW...

All right JPN! Thanks for the offer - here is an update after a day of (interrupted) work. (Two of our friends had babies this week so we've been making meals for them and I had to take a few breaks to visit and pick up groceries.)

Anyway, here's what I've accomplished for the clutch.
1) Replaced the Clutch Master Cylinder.
2) Cleaned out the Clutch Reservoir.
3) Removed and cleaned out the Clutch Slave Cylinder.
I still need to bleed the system and set the clutch pedal height.
For the clutch slave cylinder, I encountered a problem because the replacement part has the clutch line attachment in the wrong place. I've checked all the local parts store and online and they are all different than what is on my car. I figured for now I'd leave it as is (after some cleaning) and see if replacing the nasty gunky fluid and the master cylinder will suffice.

Q. The plate that the slave cylinder pushes seems a bit wobbly (with the slave cylinder removed). Is that normal? With the cylinder back on, it's very firm.

Here's what I've accomplished for the timing belt job.
1) Set it to Top Dead Center (using an old compression gauge).
2) Removed both serpentine belts.
3) Removed the power steering pump, its mounting bracketand fluid reservoir.
4)Drained the coolant from the radiator andremoved the upperradiator hose togain better access to the belts, etc.
5) Removed the crankshaft pulley bolt! It came off no problem this time.
6) Unrelated, but I also removed the valve cover (again - I just recently replaced the valve cover gasket). I had to remove it because I realized I don't have an extension long enough to reach the spark plugs with the cover on. Since I was at that point late last night, I couldn't go buy an extension, so in the process I removed most of the intake, the ignition coil, the PCV valve and hose, valve cover, spark plugs and spark plug wires. (I went a little overboard at that point, because I wanted to free up access all over.) Sidenote: I think having the cover off will make it easier for setting it to TDC.

So, now I've encountered my problem (same as last time). I need to remove the crankshaft pulley. This time I started with the larger 3-jaw puller (3-ton) that got it off last time. That was doing well until the threads stripped (also the main bolt was starting to turn itself off the extension bolt that I'm using, but not to the point of falling off). Then I went back to the smaller puller (2-ton). I think the pictures below speak for themselves. The last picture is blurrybut I think it's worth it. Needless to say, I'll be picking up a larger puller tomorrow. By the way, I've sprayed a ton of WD40 on there and I'm leaving the puller on there as it is tonight because there is at least some tension on there. Hopefully, by tomorrow it'll be ready to pop off.

After that, I need to remove an engine mount so that I can remove the timing belt cover. Then I can finally access the timing belt and water pump.

Here are the pictures... Enjoy.

1. Clutch master cylinder and reservoir - before


2) Clutch Master Cylinder - After


3) Clutch Master Cylinder Comparison


4) Clutch pivot plate (I'm not sure what it's really called, but this is what feels wobbly with the slave cylinder removed)


5) Clutch fluid reservoir (a picture is worth a 1000 words, but nothing can describe the murky nastiness that was throughout the hydraulics)...


6) Power steering pump and other removed parts


7) Crankshaft Pulley


8) First puller (note the central bolt sliding off)


9) First puller's failure (stripped threads - despite 3-ton rating)


10) Second (smaller, 2-ton) puller can't handle the stress


11) And again - I couldn't get a clear photo from this angle, but I think this is worth it...


12) Finally, an overview of the garage, just for fun...

 

That arm will feel a little wobble because it has no tension on it.

 

 

Glad it's interesting for you... I've been trying to take a ton of pictures, so that if the car makes it to 200K miles, I'll have a reference for the timing belt.

Thanks Tech for the comment on the wobbly arm - that's what I figured but I wanted to be sure.

As to the brand of the pullers, I'm not sure. I bought the largeronefor the last job, but threw out the box when moving south. I think the one with the stripped threads got the pulley off last time, so it's already been under a lot of stress. The smaller (now bent) one I do have the box for, soI'll get the brand by the end of the day. I was taking a day of rest today but I'm going to go to Autozone again today and get a new puller and either a new extension piece or try to find a strong metal sleeve to put around the puller/extension joint so that it won't slip.

Anyway, hopefully I'll get that pulley off today or tomorrow morning. After that it should be pretty straightforward.

 

JPN, you were right (at least about the 2-ton one). Made in Taiwan. I bought a 5-ton puller last night. There was only two options a 2-ton or 5-ton and both were made in Taiwan and all the area stores were closing. Hopefully a 5-ton ($40) puller can handle the job.

 

OK, now the 5-ton puller is having no problem at all, but the (extension) bolt that I'm using bent completely. I went to Home Depot and bought two galvanized steel bolts, but they both bent too.

Anyone know what the strongest type (material) for a bolt would be? It needs to be 3/8" diameter to fit and about 4.5" long. Any ideas? I'm going to call around locally.

***EDIT: I thought I'd post some pictures of the ruined bolts. Also, after some reading, I've found an article that says to use the original bolt - I'm going to give a try, but I'm really nervous about stripping those threads.... We'll see what happens...