Hi,
I'm a new user, so I'll apologize now for any faux pas or ignorance of any volvo lingo or customs.

I own a 1991 240 Wagon(no idea what trim level-i bought it double-used - at least). I love the car - it has 147,000 odd miles on it and has never given me major trouble. My family just sank $1,200 into it to replace the fuel pumpS when it died on the highway on the way back to school. So there's incentive to keep the car and not sell/scrap it.

Here's the deal:

I took it in to the shop recently for a checkup and fluids, and was told that I had a blown head gasket. I cleaned up the water pump region and block in that area and found that the VERY MINOR leak actually appears to be coming from the o-ring between the head and water pump - but I'm not 100% sure yet - I'll be checking every day for the rest of the week. I know this is a somewhat common failure point, but I'd like to get feedback from those of you who know better than I. I'm still trying to scrub nearly 20 years of crud off the block to see if there actually is any coolant coming from the head gasket, but I am 80% sure that there is no coolant leak in the head gasket, and 99% sure there is no oil leaking from the head gasket. Over a few days, there has been a leak of just enough coolant to be detectable and it is accumulating on the top of the water pump - which is sort of out of range of a head gasket leak - I think? Right?

The question is, what do I do now? Do I take it back to that shop that didn't bother to clean up my block or actually check it to have them re-evaluate it? Do I take it somewhere else and ask them for a second opinion? Do I just replace the O ring and see if it helps? Do I buy a new water pump?

How can I ensure that the system is operating normally to begin with? The temp gauge will fluctuate wildly when idling on a hot day, but hasn't yet overheated or hit the red. This really freaks me out. Is the thermostat the problem? Should I outright replace it since it's cheap?

Sooo many questions. Also, there's a lot of clicking going on under acceleration that sounds like either an exhaust leak or detonation. The tank is full of 87, so I'll have to wait to diagnose that...weird thing is that it's always been filled up with 87 - so I have no idea why it's been acting up lately. The mechanics never even heard it - so it sounds exactly like the story posted up here by someone else with an identical situation. Hope extra octanes will solve the problem...

So guys...tear it up. I love the car, and want to do everything I can to keep it running - seeing as how it's a low mileage example. I'm on a college budget, but not scared of getting my hands a little dirty. I'd call myself a spirited amateur...

Finally, this is somewhat time-sensitive. If I need to replace the head gasket - I have to do it before the long road trip back to school in September.

Thanks a ton in advance, and I love the information I've already found on this board.

 

oh, and one more thing...When I took off the timing belt cover for a better look at the water pump, and to clean up the area, I noticed that the water pump pulley had been scrubbing on the timing belt cover. It was bad enough that the cover was worn through and the lower left part of the front cover(upper section of cover assembly) broke off when I removed it.

1)Is there any reason to worry about this scrubbing problem? Why is it happening in the first place? Could the pump pulley have been installed improperly?

2)The cover still covers the timing belt all around except for the region next to the water pump.

3)How urgent is it to get the timing belt cover replaced? Do I have some time if I don't do anything risky or dumb in that area?

4)Why the heck is the cover interfering with the pulley? Everything looks like it should in my completely amateur opinion. I'm at a loss, and hoping it's just me being a concerned owner...

Thanks and sorry about the rambling.

 

A bad headgasket shows up as bubbles in the coolant reservoir, oil and coolant mixing together, low compression, white smoke, etc ....

You are correct that the pump to cylinder head gasket leaks quite often. Its not necessary to replace the pump, just the gasket ... but the pumps are fairly inexpensive. The key is getting both surfaces clean and the pump has to be "levered" upwards to get a good seal.
http://www.fcpgroton.com/product-exe...category_id/88

The pulley shouldn't be rubbing on the cover which makes me think it was not installed correctly perhaps after a timming belt change.

It might be good to change the thermostat and search for "temperature compensation board" regarding the eratic temp guage.

 

So many questions -- so little time. Just kidding.

The fluctuating temp gauge could be a faulty temperature compensating board in the instrument cluster. It is a problem area for '86+ 240s. I would (and have) eliminate the board. It's a small PC board about 1/2" x 2". Toss it in the dumpster. Short pins 1&3 together, where the compensating board plugged into.

There should be no rubbing of the water pump pulley or belts on the timing belt cover. Sounds like the pulley may be misaligned. Not urgent but oil, coolant, or debris could interfere with the timing belt and you would be looking at a timing belt job. I know some folks run without a timing belt cover but I wouldn't do it.

Sounds like the mushroom gasket at the top of the water pump is leaking. When the water pump is installed positive upward pressure must be maintained while tightening the mounting nuts/bolts in order to properly seat the gasket with the head.

You don't want to be paying the shop to do engine cleaning at $100 per hour. And they're not going to spend more than 10 minutes cleaning unless they're being paid.

 

Thanks so much for the prompt and insightful replies.

Bubba: I'm pretty much positive that the oil is fully contained and not mixing with the coolant. I think it's a coolant problem exclusively.

What steps go into cleaning the mating surfaces for the water pump? Simple Green and a rag? or sandpaper and cleaner? I'm a total newb.

Regarding the interference with the cover, how would I check to see if the pump was installed wrong? Either the cover is too far forward or the pump/pulley is too far back. No idea how to prove/disprove either though...I took the front cover off and noticed that the back side was degrading - it's probably the original part. It's brittle and weak, and some chunks are missing - hopefully not lying in wait to jump into the timing belt and surprise me. *GULP*

Would one or both of you explain the whole temperature compensation board concept to me? Will this mod allow my temp gauge to display accurately? Can a "spirited amateur" do this kind of work himself? Put simply, what the heck is a temperature compensation board, and what would be the advantage of having one? Or just point me to a thread if it's easier. ; )

Blue Goose: I guess you're right about the cleaning thing, but I would have appreciated someone looking in there and deciding if it was a $100 job or a $1000+ job. They told me the car was pretty much a total loss at that price, and my heart broke a little.

Do you all think the car is drivable for long distances given the (apparently) very minor leak?

Thanks a million.

austin

 

How'd you get that photo? Was the engine out? Either way, thanks. I'll check it after work today and report.

 

See:
http://cleanflametrap.com/tempFaker.html

 

wow! So why on earth would Volvo not want their owners to know the specific temperature of the coolant? Bizarre.

Instead of getting a "hot - but manageable" reading, I'm flapping back and forth between "hot" and "Holy &$*%" with no indication of actual temp. Thanks Volvo. Thanks a lot.

Bubba, Thanks a bunch for that link. I guess this is the sort of thing that is reversible if it doesn't fix the problem. I'll let you all know if this temp board elimination works - fingers crossed.

Should be able to do it this weekend.

I just realized - if this solves the temp fluctuation, I'll be able to diagnose actual overheating instead of pointlessly watching the gauge wave to me. That is confidence inspiring.

Thanks again. I'm getting excited about starting to dig into my own car!

 

The pic: I stuck the camera down there and took the shot just guessing at the aim.

The procedure shown on cleanflametrap for the temp comp board is excellent. But whenever I remove the instrument cluster I first remove the upper plastic panel on the steering column. Two screws. It just gives a little more clearance for the cluster to come out. And before you reconnect the electrical cables, spray a little electrical contact cleaner and dab a little dielectric grease on the contacts. I had a shaky speedo that was cured after I cleaned up the contacts on the "L" connector at the back of the speedo head.

Cleaning the mating surfaces: There's a gizmo called a gasket remover. It's basically a razor blade on a stick. If you haven't done so, get familiar with PB Blaster and Kroil. Either one helps with freeing up stuck parts and getting rid of gunk. I wouldn't use sandpaper, although some folks do. Careful with the razor blade so you don't scratch the mating surfaces. Take it slow.

I would either find a shop that knows Volvos or learn to do it myself.

A good water pump is Hepu.

 

Well, I just got home and checked a few things out.

The temperature stayed steady on the 15 minute drive home in +/-90F weather, not a particularly good test, but at least I've got that going for me.

I hand-tested the cooling fan - gave it a good push with my hand before starting the car and found it is engaged?(if I had to say, I'd say it was somewhere in between engaged and disengaged - but I don't have a benchmark) - it only spun about 1/4 - 3/4 turn. When I got home after the car had heated up, I did the same test warm and got identical results. Does this mean that the fan clutch is gone or do I need to get the car really hot to perform a test? I read about putting cardboard in front of the radiator and so on, but i got a bit confused. Might reread some hints and try this weekend...

I also had a good look at all my belts and pulleys. Here's where it gets funky...
The water pump pulley is in line with the alternator(I'm not sure if they're perfectly parallel, but the twin belts go straight from one to the other) but the belts between the crank pulley and the water pump pulley angle toward the front of the car maybe 1/8" to 1/4" (with the crank pulley being the one further forward). I will take a photo when I get a chance. This is right in line with the fact that the water pump is rubbing on the timing belt cover - it's apparently back 1/8" - 1/4"(your great photo looked like it had about that much clearance between the belt cover and the pump pulley). So why is the water pump pulley sitting too far back? The pump looks like it is the correct model. Any thoughts? The only thing I can think is that the pulley must have been taken off the front of the pump at some point and improperly reassembled, but I have no idea when, why, or how. Also, the belts looked a little worn - not sure if it's because of the non-linear path or just age.

Also, is it normal for a little oil to leak out from the port atop the valve cover? I just wiped down the engine and after today's drive I saw that a little oil had come out. The cap seems okay, but I'll gladly replace it if I have to. Could it be the gasket inside that cap?

I know, I know. Lots of questions, but I'm worried about / intrigued by this car.

Thanks in advance.

Austin

 

I've never been able to gain any useful information about the fan clutch by spinning the fan. I replaced a fan clutch when it was noisy. Problem solved.

There should be no oil leaking out of the oil filler cap. It could be an indication of excessive pressure. You don't want the rear cam seal to blow or you will get oil all over the place. Check your flame trap to be sure it's clear and the crankcase has ventilation. Also replace the rubber gasket under the oil filler cap.

 

Thanks. I was considering buying the cam seal retainer.

To be clear, is there a guide to cleaning out the entire flame trap system properly and thoroughly? Also - is that system conveniently located below the intake runner? Just want to know where to look. Also, would it be good to bleed a little engine oil out to drop the pressure? I really wish the 240 had an oil pressure gauge as standard. Oh well. Idiot lights only for Volvo owners.

I guess I should put a list together for one of the Volvo parts houses.

Water pump o-ring
Cam seal retainer
Oil filler cap gasket
flame trap
perhaps a flame trap relocation kit...
Timing belt cover(s)
new belts for water pump?

does this sound like a reasonable list? anything major missing? anything I really don't need?

Thanks a lot guys.

 

I don't think a '91 needs a relocation kit for the flame trap. Somewhere around '88 they moved it up for better access. I relocated mine and it now sits above the intake manifold. Servicing now takes 5 minutes instead of 30 minutes.

To service it, pull the hoses off and clean the little white plastic filter (the flame trap itself). Or it could be brass mesh. Either take a picture beforehand or mark hoses so you know where they go.

There's a write-up on the brickboard FAQ:

http://www.brickboard.com/FAQ/700-90...ion_A_Treatise

IPD has the rear cam seal retaining plate.

No, don't drain oil out. Some 240s, like mine, have a real oil pressure gauge. If there's a space available to the right of your instrument cluster you can install an oil pressure gauge. You would also need a dual function oil pressure switch/sender to screw into the engine block behind the alternator.

Where did your water pump come from? Or who installed it?

 

I have a '91 240 that had the same problem where the water pump pulley was rubbing on the timing belt cover. I measured the offset from the pulley to the crank pulley (using a straight edge and a ruler) and found I had about 1/16 of an inch. To solve the problem, I fabricated a shim that fits behind the pulley to bring it into alignment with the crank pulley.

However, in doing it, you need to make sure the shim is properly flat so you don't get any wobble.

I never checked the offset to my alternater. Maybe I just got lucky.

 

Blue goose, I think I found the flame trap - between the intake runners to cylinders 3&4. Is this right? I'll pull it and clean it this weekend. I'm a little confused because it looks like the smallest hose is routed around all kinds of stuff which means that someone may have worked on it, but the hose they installed seems like it's a little too wide on the interior diameter to fit the nipple on the intake. Really loose. I'll take some photos and ask for feedback here.

No idea where the water pump came from and I think it's been a while since it's been touched. Is there a way to find out the manufacturer easily? I'll try to figure out who did the work, but it's been such a long time now, that I don't think I'd get any free help. I think I'll try the shim idea proposed by act1292 if I can't make any headway. How did you make the shim act1292?

I'm really more confused than upset. How the heck is it in line with the alternator, and how do I remedy that offset? Just found this guy's chronicle of volvo 240 repairs. I think I'm in the same boat with the alternator. about halfway down the page. Here


To be clear - this is not the alternator from my car, but from someone with the same model.

who knows. I'll do the work I can do this weekend and brainstorm how to solve this belt alignment thing.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

I'm thinking that has to be some sort of aftermarket pump for it to be recessed like that???

Your shopping list looks fine but you might want to get some Mann oil filters while at it, they are the best.

The alternator uses rubber bushings that can distort over time so people will replace them with polyurethane. The power steering pump uses the same exact bushings. 3 for the alternator, 2 for the PS pump, I think.

 

Bubba, do you think the shim thing will work if it's less than 1/4"? how would you or act1292 go about fabricating one? I'm a college student with a nice assortment of hand and power tools, but no shop or plate steel, etc.

How can I identify the Mfr. of the pump?

I just had the oil filter replaced within the last month, so I'll grab that after I get all this annoying little crap done.

 

Is there a reason - other than crappy fuel - that my car would begin knocking horribly all of a sudden? I really hope it's low-qual fuel, but I'd also like to fix it if it's a bigger/common problem. Could it have to do with the timing?

 

And...sorry for the obnoxious newbie questions...is there a reason to choose one thermometer temp. rating over another? I live in Washington, D.C. and go to school in GA

 

Me personally ... I would use aluminum because its easy to work with. Maybe .150" or .200" thick because of the number of bolt threads you have to move things out. Start with a square, drill your holes, cut off and grind down the corners.

Remove and use the pulley as a template.