Help Help!! 94 volvo 940
 

OK so I'm working on a friends car, when he brought it to my attention he said the fuel pump needs replacing (him not knowing there was two) he had someone who did not know what they were doing pull it out so I noticed the fuel pump mount was broken. I put the mount back together and re soldered the wires to the pins in the mount and added the new pump, car did not start so I replaced the relay and still nothing so I put in a new main fuel pump (under driver seat) and crossed my fingers and still nothing there is no fuel presser. Any ideas??

Was the car running before you worked on it?
Why did you change the pump? May be it's not the pump or fuel related problem?
You have to diagnose, and describe, more of what's going on if you expect to get help.

No the car was not running when I got to it, its been sitting for about six months my friend had someone I do not know pull the pump out because a mechanic said that was the problem but I kind of don't think it was that pump initially, but when I got to it, it was already pulled out and dismantled so I put it back together mounted the new fuel pump and put it back in the tank, it still would not start so next I replaced the fuel pump relay and still no start so next I replaced the main fuel pump and it still is not starting I checked the pressure and there is none, so I tested the power to the main fuel pump with a voltage meter and nothing so now I'm thinking radio suppression relay but I'm not sure where to go with it next. I also noted the gas gauge not working.

is this a turbo or non-turbo ?

is it generating spark when you crank it over? if its not, it could well be the crank position sensor (CPS), as the injection control unit (ECU) won't turn on the fuel pumps without timing pulses from the CPS.

if its a non-turbo 1994/1995, there's an alternate relay configuration, which uses a regular relay for the fuel pumps instead of the normal 240/740/940 dual relay used on all the others.... these cars use the 'radio suppression' relay under the hood as the main relay for the ECU power.

diagnose, diagnose, diagnose. get the wiring diagrams, track things down with a volt meter, work backwards from anything that seems wrong til you find out WHY its wrong.

Yes it is a turbo, and I have checked some of the wiring because I kind of came into the situation behind someone else I been thinking it was mainly the fuel pumps but after replacing them I see I need to do better diagnostics. I also noticed the dash was not lighting up when I went to start it only the SRS light so I hooked it up to my battery and got all the light on it for about 30 seconds and then just the SRS again.

The dash lights malfunction is likely the circuit board on the instrument panel and it won't affect the no start you are chasing.

Is it cranking over then? Ya, the CPS is what I'd look at next...

Lots of confusion here...!


No dash lights.....sounds like dead battery.

Uh no fuel pressure...? Ifdash lights confuse you, how are you checking fuel pressure?

Sorry I been meaning to update, yes it was not giving full power to the dash with a charged battery, but I have been testing power and fuses and came across the ICM took it to O'Riley's and it was bad so I replaced it and its still not starting but its more of a normal out of gas sound, rather than the slow lagging noise it was making before I sprayed starting fluid and finally got it started but it would not stay on so I checked and no fuel in the fuel rail I checked for pressure from the in tank pump to the inline pump and there was nothing at all but there is pressure at fuel line under hood to main pump. Both pumps are good and power I's good I am going to check lines again from tank to main but I really don't know where to go with it.

Hi! Thanks for responding again. I hate the feeling of talking to nobody. I asdume you got an email from subscribed thread! Anyways....


Idk what you did to determine bad ICU, and I assume you mean power stage/ ignition amplifier, but if car ran that means spark works!

Dash light prob: i can't really understand issue. but I know I had a 740 with bad wiring at alternator that caused issues there. 940 clusters also go bad, but again, am confused.

Your no start takes priority of course. Could be related, but need more info or clarification.

Fuel pump relays fail on these cars a lot.

Dry fuel rail!? Thats a prob!

Keep trying and posting and I will try to help ya.

OK so I have read the posts again....

You say you have no power to fuel pump. Are you sure? Do you know how to use a multimeter? Have to ask....

If you don't have power at pump you found the problem! Trace circuit and fix.

Also it won't cause the issues described, but make sure your tank pump is wired cortectly. Its easy to wire it backwards and some pumps come with terminals reversed I have heard!

So what you need to do is learn how to manually jumper the pumps to run. You can do this at relay or fuse box. I ain't gonna type it all out right now! Ok fine, you have to juice up the yellow red wire at relay. That's my clue for now!

On a 940 its not easy to get at relay wires like a 240. So I suggest juicing up the pumps at the fuse. Simply add 12v to fuel pump fuse from your favorite source and see if it comes out at the fuel pump plugs. Make sense?

Ok so spent 30 seconds and looked at a diagram in my haynes and Chilton manual. I suggest you do the same or online.

On 940 the relay powers up a pink wire that goes to fuse 2. Check for voltage at fuse! For fun juice it up like I said before and see if pumps go.

Google!
 

http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/volvo/940/1993/940-93-1.gif

OK thank you I'm actually about to get under the car now and yes my email is liked to my phone so I get the message right away, I was actually just doing research on my issue and read that along with the crank shaft sensor the ignition control module can be part of a no start. I am going to pull the lines from the tank to the main pump now and see if there is a blocked line I will let you know my outcome. Thank you by the way!��

You have some work to do.

Stop thinking ignition! If car started once you have spark. You can always double check though. Use your favorite method. For you, I suggest pulling the lead from coil to cap, set it close to stud for strut mount, crank, enjoy spark! ;)

Again, no fuel is your issue tho. Google the diagram and trace circuit and fix! If that's really the issue here...

Tank to pump line won't be issue. Why bother if you don't have 12v at main pump!?

That being said, I am not confident you know how to confirm voltage.

Ok, on the desktop now. Much easier to communicate! I can actually type well and dont have the page jumping around and loading from all the ****ing ads!

Please don't take offense. I am not trying to be rude, but it's pretty clear you don't know what you are doing. When you tell me you don't have power to the fuel pump and then your solution consists of pulling fuel lines.....that makes zero sense to me.


Honestly, do you know how to confirm when there is 12v? If you do, I mentioned you need to check for it at the main pump and if its not there you need to check for it at tank pump/heated o2 sensor fuse.

desktop win!
 

Understood. I'm on it

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Glad to help. Thanks for saying thanks!


Ok so look at the diagram above. See number 135? See the pink wire coming off it? It goes to the fusebox. Looks like fuse 11. The tank pump and HEATED O2 are fused. The main pump bypasses this fuse. Very confusing huh? jk.

Check for 12v at fuse. Or you could test for it at the pre pump, at the main pump, or even the O2 sensor plug.

The only thing I would do regarding the fuel line from tank-to-pump is: pull it off the pump make the tank pump run using your favorite method (joke), and make sure fuel is being pushed out of it NOT air being pulled in to confirm it works and isnt wired backwards.

Confirm presence/absence of 12v at fuse, then fuel pump. If no 12v, remove fuel pump relay, jump terminal 30 (12v+. Red wire) to terminal 87/2 (pink wire terminal for fuel pumps) and see what happens. Your fuel pumps should "fire".

So which one is it? You contradict yourself.

I have power to both pumps i tested wires and pumps but still no fuel coming from tank I tested with 12v wire to fuel pump relay and pumps fired up fine, its just not pulling fuel from the tank

how much gas is in the tank? if its above 1/2 tank, the in-tank pump is 'optional' (car will run fine without it). if its low, then the in tank pump becomes more and more important. there's a small piece of fuel hose in there, from the lid to the tank pump, if that hose rots out, then the main pump sucks air when the gas is low.

http://www.ipdusa.com/uploads/images...lsize_6596.jpg

thats the complete tank assembly with tank pump, 'sock', and fuel level sender.

Wonderful.

Pump might be wired backwards like I mentioned.

I got it running!!! I appreciate all of the help from you guys, you all are so knowledgeable and extremely helpful I more than appreciate all your help. Volvos are not so simple and I work at AutoZone so I'm dealing with a lot of cars and different situations and I was completly stumped but with your help I was able to get it running smooth again, I ended up filling a gas can and running fuel line directly from the main pump to the gas can and getting fuel to the fuel rail, I filled the gas tank more than half and it ran for a little while but if I pressed on the gas it would turn off so I changed out the fuel pressure regulator to in hopes for more stabilized presser but going back to the basics I decided to triple check the in tank pump and sure enough the fuel line (I got from autozone gets really soft) had slipped off of the sending unit so I reconnected and it started with no problems so total repairs were both pumps, ignition control module, fuel presser regulator and a few fuel lines that were cracked and it is still needing a bigger stronger battery and some brakes but its running fine.thank you all again

Glad you got it! Fuel line at sender was definitely a possibility when I heard you say no fuel from tank.

Still have probs with dash lights?

You might have fired a few too many shots with the parts cannon, but glad you got it. It has taken me over a decade of trial and error to have the knowledge I have now. I look back at where I was even in 2012 and see where I was confused. I know some professional mechanics that would school me when it comes to different cars and using oscilloscopes to check sensor outputs and advanced diagnostic tools. When you charge $80/hr and it's not your car, you cant just fire the parts cannon at it!

The car will usually run fine with a bad tank pump, but not if there is a torn/disconnected fuel line there.

I dont know how a guy sitting at oreilly possibly could have bench tested the ignition "powerstage" as bad. I would keep the old one around. I bet its fine. There are a couple of resistance tests, but I don't put much faith in those tests.

Same thing with pressure regulator. They go bad once in a while, but yours was "probably" good. I have never seen one go bad, but people have had their diaphragm tear and have fuel dump out the vacuum line and then you know its bad!

Cracked fuel lines need to be replaced. Which ones did you replace? I assume at fuel pressure regulator... american diameter fuel line works HERE. Close enough at least not to start a CAR-B-Q. However, the soft hose from tank-to-pump is some euro diameter I believe and hard to find in USA. The line from pump to fuel rail is Volvo specific hardline. I need to swap mine out to avoid car-b-q. At least the fuel pump mounting bracket is getting cleaned in the meantime by raw fuel! eeek.

Oh I just saw you used fuel line from autozone in the tank! I believe that is not fuel line mean to be SUBMERSED in fuel. It wont start a fire, but if its already getting soft after a few days that should be a giant red flag that it aint the right application! Euro diameters are slightly different than SAE fuel line. I have been standing in the back of auto parts stores more than once trying to find sections of fuel line or vacuuum line for my car and the USA stuff just doesnt work.

















Not "aimed" at anybody here:

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59320340.jpg

Lol "parts cannon" funny ������, I thought there was something to that fuel line thing because every place I go to has the same, and yes, honestly, I didn't feel confident about the O'Riley's test but Bosch has provided them with newer testing equipment than ours at AutoZone so I didn't have the proper connection to test myself but I kept the moduale just incase. The pressure regulator was just kind of a booster it was running without it, it just seemed to feel a little smoother and I'd already bought it so mid as well the car was sitting up for a long time.

I have heard that BMW dealers sell fuel line by the foot. It will be the proper diameter. I also strongly suggest using the correct stuff IN the tank too.

What ever happened with the dash light problem?

When the powerstage goes bad, your ignition is totally dead. Usually happens when HOT. The proper way to test it is in the car. It converts the 5v signal from the ignition computer into a 12v switching signal to the coil. If you ever have a car with dead ignition you look for 12v going back and forth to zero at the coil. If you don't have switching voltage you start working backwards from there.

Proper test for the fuel pressure regulator involves applying vacuum at watching pressure drop. With vacuum line disconnected fuel pressure will be at 2.5bar as stamped on regulator.

yeah, the BMW metric fuel line is good stuff. you can often find it at independent parts stores that deal with VW and other euro car parts as the Vanagon, and Golf/Jetta folks like to use it. my BMW motorcycle uses it, too. absolutely critical that you use fuel INJECTION hoses, as the fuel system is under high pressure (44PSI or so on LH cars, as much as 65-70PSI on K-jet), and its got to be metric, the american size stuff wont' fit right.

I also agree with above post to look around at VW shops for metric fuel line and vacuum lines. It is all almost exclusively EFI hose rated for 0-100psi. Carbureted fuel line is rated much lower, but I have yet to see any of that on the racks at parts stores.

I gave up a LONG time ago believing in auto parts store's bench tests telling me if a part is good or not. I can't tell you how many times I have had them tell me a battery tested bad, but after the free battery recharge they give me it works fine.

It is in the parts store's best interest to tell you it's bad so they make $$$.
I can't even remember the last time I even bothered asking questions to a parts store employee or had them test my stuff. I don't even buy new parts there anymore. Waste of money on crap aftermarket stuff. I just go to the junkyard and get my parts!

LH 2.4 uses 42-44 PSI which is about 3 BAR. Volvo 240 LH2.2 systems were 2.5 BAR which is about 36 PSI. these pressures are relative to manifold vacuum.

I think you could be right. I just know that at least on pre 90 stuff NON turbo was 2.5 bar. Turbo was 3 bar. That being said, I have seen 3 bar on non turbo later model cars so that would confirm your statement.

JuliaHorton,

Did a fully charged battery fix your dash lights?


Submersible fuel line: (240 length, but gives you the idea...)



Gates Premium Submersible Fuel Hose for Volvo In-tank Pre-pumps (3 Inch Length) 121652 27080

No, charged battery won't fix the dash lights!
Most likely the problem is the circuit board in the instrument panel--the soldering points need to be refloated with a low heat soldering iron, common problems with 940.

91/92 740/940 have a unique instrument panel thats not interchangable with other years. the speedometers are prone to capacitor failure, as well as needing resoldering. my 92, the speedo 'sticks' at 40MPH most of the time and won't read higher, yet the odometer counts off miles correctly (go figger). I re-capped it, and the original caps were definitely bad, swollen, leaky, crusty ooze on the circuit board. I cleaned off all the ooze, but I did *NOT* resolder the whole board as it 'looked' ok. I need to pull it and do the full resolder and try again but I've switched daily drivers so the 740 is being neglected.

Thanks Julia.