I'm waiting for some shims to complete a valve adjustment on my 940 and was all set to do a cold adjustment as described in the Brickboard repair articles:
https://www.brickboard.com/RWD/volvo...djustment.html


...then I ran across IPD's instruction and they say warm:
Valve Adjustment on B21/B23/B230 "Red Block" Motors


Who are you suppose to believe? My cold clearances range from .015 to .019 and I know if it was warm they would be very different. I don't want to do this twice. Does anyone know what the Volvo shop manual says? I don't trust Volvo dealers because I'm sure they do it when the cars are warm so they can get them in and out quickly. They're the ones who screwed this one up. Help?

 

why did you start a new thread. Bad etiquette. I am not the best at following internet law either, but cmon.

I will also say that you will need a GOOD micrometer and be able to do basic arithmetic. I use a $45 mic I got from NAPA.


This topic has been debated in the past. There are many different ways to skin a cat. Meaning, different tools and methods used. Also, hot vs cold. I say do it cold because engines don't stay HOT for long enough. I suspect that there is a HOT spec just because techs don't always have time to sit around and let an engine cool off.

hahaha I did a double reply. BAD ETIQUETTE! I even got a polite request from resident MOD here once asking that the multiple replies be kept to a minimum. Got thrown off by the 3 or 4 threads you have started on this topic. That is my "excuse".


This topic has been debated in the past. There are many different ways to skin a cat. Meaning, different tools and methods used. Also, hot vs cold. I say do it cold because engines don't stay HOT for long enough. I suspect that there is a HOT spec just because techs don't always have time to sit around and let an engine cool off.

 

.....

 

I started a new thread because 3 days ago Lev suggested I needed a valve adjustment. I asked hot or cold? He didn't respond nor did anyone else. So I felt I had to start a new one to get someone's attention who has an answer to this common question. To me bad etiquette is offering basic advice, without complete information, then abandoning the thread. Hence the need to start anew. And I do have a nice digital mic and have calculated all the shims and sizes I need, which, as it turns out is useless if I do it warm. If you say do it cold, then do you change the specs? I ran across a hotrod web page and they said take off .004 to .006 if you do it warm because all the metal will expand. And that is for a cast iron block and aluminum head. If there's any truth to that then Volvo's .016 recommendation becomes .010 to .012 when cold. Or, another way to look at it is set them for .020 when warm and they'll shrink down to .016 when cold. Now that seems logical yet I don't think I'd do it.

 

Yeah this forum pretty much sucks. Nothing but newly registered members and crappy threads with disappearing OP's and the resulting cynical responses from the seasoned members. I ask myself constantly why I even bother showing up here. I just happened to see an email from one of the threads and showed up.

Go over to tbricks. ; )

 

Valve Clearance Adjustment Procedure. Summary of valve lash check procedure on B230 engine appears
below. While Volvo says the procedure can be performed when the engine is hot, I am in agreement with the
late Jon Muir (How to Keep Your VW Alive...) who wrote that the only way to get a correct reading on valve lash
is to check the engine when it is stone cold.
1. Remove spark plugs. Remove valve cover.
2. Use LARGE pliers (e.g, Channel Lock makes a great set for this) to turn the engine clockwide. The grab
point for the pliers is the outside surface of the mount for the cooling fan on the end of the water pump.
3. Timing order is 1-3-4-2. Number 1 is at the front of the car, number 4 is back by the firewall.
4. Turn engine until TDC indicator on timing gauge (down near the crankshaft pulley) is around zero
degrees. Number 1 is at TDC when mark on crank pulley is at zero on timing gauge AND cam lobes for
number 1 point out and slightly upward in opposite directions. Think perky ;-) and you'll get the idea.
5. As you are checking clearances write them down on a large piece of cardoard on which you have made
eight circles, one for each valve.
6. With number 1 at TDC, use the feeler gauge to probe the gap between the cam lobe and the lifter. Volvo
says the valve lash should be between .3 and .4 mm when the engine is cold. If a feeler gauge setting
of .4 won't go, and one of .3 will go easily, the valve lash is within spec. If your feeler gauge doesn't
have .3 and .4 mm, use what you have, and interpolate accordingly.
7. Turn engine 180 degrees so that the cam lobes from number three are perky and pointing in opposite
directions. Repeat step 5 for Number 3.
8. Repeat steps 5 and 6 for cylinders 2 and 4, taking note of any readings that are out of spec. If they are
out of spec, use the feeler gauge to determine the actual gap.
9. Reseal valve cover, using new gasket.
10. If one or more of the valves is out of spec, you will need shims. Some dealers and independent shops
will sell individual shims. Find a shop a give them your readings, and they should be able to give you the
correct shim. You will need a shim removal tool. KD sells one for about $30. Or, you could have the shop
replace the shim. If you do not have the tools, see the FAQ Section.
11. You may wish to re-tighten the valve cover nuts after a few days. I find that doing so helps stop any
leaks. Torque on the valve cover nuts is not that high: 9 lb-ft should do it.

 

Reference this.

http://www.nuceng.ca/bill/volvo/Volv...gesmissing.pdf

 

Thanks for the info. I have seen these articles and it makes sense. But here's where the confusion sets in. Even IPD says that there's a long running disagreement about warm and cold adjustments, but no one has stepped out and said what the specs should be under each situation. The engine expands and shrinks. The numbers can't be the same. I finally(duh) found the sticker in my engine compartment that says it should be done warm and the "warm" numbers are .017 to .018, which is much more than what these diy articles are saying. This page I found seems to shed some light on the topic:


Engine Valve Adjustment Procedure - The Right Way


So, if I take Volvo's warm number of .018 and subtract .06 my cold adjustment number should be .012. And .012 converts to .3mm, which your article suggests. Finally, thank you.

 

Oh the sticker says WARM specs? ha

I would do it cold.


There are many more times you will be working on a cold engine than a warm one anyways. I hate working on hot engines. I sweat my *** off. And trying to do it warm will be working against a clock. Just do it cold dude. You are overthinking it.

 

That's what I plan on doing but I had to make sure I didn't use warm specs on a cold engine. I don't think that would work.

And, by the way, I have 3 cold valves that are at .019, when the engine warms they'll be at .024. No wonder I have valve chatter. Thanks to that Volvo Dealer. He's a real peach.

 

I don't agree with your expanded numbers and the only engine I every adjusted hot was my solid lifter 327 340HP Corvette. I set our volvo 740 cold and have checked it 3 times (every 100K miles). After the 1st 100K adjustment I have never needed to change shims on any valve. I always set the intakes in the middle of the range and the exhaust on the low end. Car now has 353,000 original miles and has never been opened up. I think you are over killing this . The difference between cold and warm is insignificant. Ask yourself what is warm. If it's 80* in the garage the engine is 80* so what is warm and how much is the expansion factor. Your .019 gap will not be .024 .

 

If i were you, I'd perform a simple experiment to find out what the differences in clearance are between a cold and hot/warm engine. once when hot and measure it again the next morning.
On the other hand some slight noise is better than a lash set too tight and burning valves. Have you replaced the valve "hushers" Volvo part #3514432?

 

That's exactly what I'm doing tomorrow morning when I get a new cover gasket. I've got the cold numbers and I'll get the hot and compare. Should be interesting.

 

We'll see tomorrow.


PS. I think Volvo meant a running engine that was just turned off- much more than ambient temp.

 

i just did a lookup of expansion rates of steel vs aluminum and AL has a coeff of 22 vs 14 for steel, oops i edited my previous statement, the gap should open up for a hot engine, never mind

 

Again, you guys are making it too complicated. Keep it simple. These old tractor engines are very forgiving. Just set it and forget it.

I like the thought process behind what you guys are saying and I totally understand, but just it is probably better to put your efforts elsewhere on the car. I am sure there is plenty of broken stuff that needs attention. My list is never ending!

 

Ok. Experiment completed. Here are the numbers: everything did expand. The range was .002 to .004. Not as much as they quoted in that article about iron blocks and aluminum heads but enough to be significant. One of my valves which was .019 cold expanded to .022, definitely enough to cause valve chatter. And by the way, I got my engine to the middle of the temp gauge and took my time measuring and then re-measured and the engine did not cool off enough during those 20 minutes to affect the numbers. So I agree that Volvo's hot number of .017 to .018 would translate to a cold number of .014 to .015 which converts to 3.5 mm and matches your article link. Thanks all!

 

Yeah, I know, you're right but noises drive me crazy.

 

I'll ask the question again, have you checked/replaced the valve hushers?
I think there is a fine line between acceptable running clearance vs silent operation. what runs good enough may not be the quietest operation hence the invention of the valve "husher". it might have cost too much and less reliable for volvo to engineer hydralic valve buckets, the old cost vs benefit analysis. There are plenty of things they could have done if they wanted too, V8's or lightweight/fuel economyfor example.
Volvo focused on safety and durability, the reason we love them 20+ years later.

 

I've got a few shims and all new hushers on order. The old hushers we're hard, cracked and brittle so I'm sure they had some influence on the "chatter". But it was quiet when cold, so if the hushers we're the main culprit I think I'd have it during cold, startup. As soon as the engine warms up it starts. And at operating temperature I have 3 valves that gap at .022, .04 out of specs. That's gotta make noise.