Greetings, Volvoland. Got something today which I can't quite square --

I'm really at my wits end with the ongoing clatter, resonance, and vibration from a car with a generally solid and sound engine/driveline.

By the tests, this is one of the best engines I've worked with in a long time; with both good performance and fuel economy. All cylinders are strong and even; and the low end is tight. There are NO vacuum leaks (tested and checked!), yet the car vibrates every day now like a nasty early 80s Ford Escort with uneven compression; and the situation's not getting any better.

Anyone out there suffered this vibrational plague and found a solution?

FWIW, I have a new set of Bilstein mounts on-hand which I can put in, but the old ones that are currently supporting the motor seem just fine; with no excessive torque swing and reasonable clearance between the pan and crossmember. If this isn't likely the fix, I'd reeelly rather not go through a hellish multi-day odyssey of dismantling and refitting the entire intake side, only to be rewarded by a largely unchanged situation.

So, for the sake of mechanical peace, does anyone know what typically causes this shake-and-clatter in the 960s if all seems OK by general standards?

Just want my smooth $30K car back in place of this queer, bug-eyed Chihuahua thing

Thanks again and Cheers!

 

is the rpms fluxing at all when it goes into this rough idle?

 

@jands:

Thanks for dropping in

No, idle is even and good; and the engine runs uniformly strong under all conditions.

Vibration varies primarily with engine speed; and is generally unaffected by load. Sometimes it's so bad passengers will complain of a butt massage at highway speeds. Periodically, there's also a weird clatter which sounds like a crappy smog pump or a couple of trashed rods to go along with things; adding a real beater dimension to the overall effect. This is most evident at idle.

Most of the time, all we need is smoke to complete the show...

 

Have you tested compression? Sometimes varying compression among the cylinders will cause an engine to shake.

Is it really necessary to take apart the intake to do the left side engine mount? I figured you could reach under it to remove the nut.

 

@VDonkey:

Thanks for dropping in!

Compression tests even and normal. No misfiring. Again, the engine is strong and tight; and the phenomena is not confined to any particular load parameters.

One day it's the idle vibes which buzz most through the car; the next, cruising is the issue. Tromping the gas sometimes picks up a moanful shake; other times it's smooth as glass. And then there's the periodic clatter. Totally capricious and without any discernible pattern whatsoever...

As for taking out the intake manifold, I just can't see any other way; as virtually everything seems to be in the way. The online manuals are no help whatsoever in this operation; adding more fun. Unless there's a trick to this which nobody's sharing, I literally don't see any other way of getting the silly thing switched out without breaking both car and hands

(sigh)

 

Have you checked the universal joints? If it's happening in gear and the engine is "strong".... I'd be checking the rear universal joints. As for idle when was last time the intake was cleaned? And if all that's good how are the transmission mounts? Or in this case mount. As for the smog bump the rubber feet snap off and then it bounces around. I have mine zip tied down for now

 

Hello jands.

Looks as though you have about the same car on your end.

All the elastomers in question don't seem to be problematic. The car's spent the vast majority of its service life in a place where it's damp and generally mild. Visual inspection of the mounts don't readily show anything noteworthy: The pan clears the crossmember pad adequately; and the engine doesn't show any signs of overtorquing when challenged (in gear, full brakes, throttle gunned). I have even gotten under the car on ramps while a VERY TRUSTED helper performed this operation; and all seemed passable: No excessive or unusual movement under load.

However, this doesn't rule out the possibility of some other type of issue involving the mounts; namely settling and/or hardening. Not having another specimen to compare, I really can't say what would be entirely normal looking in this layout at each point. Just nothing overtly goofy to be seen. Got the new Bilsteins because they were on sale for about 75% off (hip tip!); and, with all this going on right now, I know they'll be needed in the future at any rate.

Thanks for the tip on the smog motor. I'll have a look at that; but it just purrs like a big cat when it's running. AFAIK it's never in play when the other mischief is going on...

U-Joints seem OK. Again, the vibes come through in gear or not, loaded or not. The only thing in common is engine speed. Sometimes it's a Briggs & Stratton; sometimes (not commonly) it's a Volvo again. If the distemper was consistent, I'd almost suspect a loose flex plate or gammy harmonic balancer; but it daily comes-and-goes around without sane reason.

Has this ever been a problem for you with your '96, or is she smooth and normal without too many moods?

Thanks again

 

mine was having some major vibration issues at the beginning of the summer but it was a combination between the MAF sensor on its way out and the universal joints. the MAF i would say made the biggest improvement...with a 5 dollar junk yard MAF from another volvo my rough idle and sporadic vibrations now and again went mostly away....I still need to get under her and replace the U-joints that have seen better days. they sometimes are smooth as glass and other days act up. however, i want to replace with Volvo parts due to i have had issues with Autozone etc u-joints in the past. I can prob take some pics of my engine and trans mounts so you have an idea of what 210k original maine/nh/RI mounts looks like lol....salt has not been this cars friend.

 

@jands:

Thanks much for sharing. Great to hear someone else has hit this issue and come out the other side with a solution.

MAF sensor... just saw a donor the other day... Hmmm...

Do you know if you were throwing any codes? Also thought of the ignitors or whatever they're called (the big transistors which bolt to the intake). But never any codes. That's been another part of the stumper for me; as the codes for this type of stuff have always been clear, and vacuum is smooth & strong (no misfiring)...

Sorry to hear of your rust issues. We've simply got to band together and outlaw rust and the commies who cause it. America was never meant to be covered with road salt

But, again, I digress

 

i never got any codes either for the MAF but when i tested it with a voltmeter mine was fluxing all over the place. as for the rust...i am actually not that bad...the salt has killed my rubber seals and gaskets tho. the car itself has very little rust which makes me . lol.

 

OK. Now I'm somewhat hopeful.

I'll see what we can see. Maybe I can "throttle" this bug once and for all!

Glad to hear your steel is still mostly intact. That's a prime reason why I bother with all this to the extent I do: It's a quality car which has more than once saved my wife from serious injury amongst a veritable throng of genuinely stoned drivers. So, all considered, I'll keep the blessed thing rolling as long as it will continue to do so.

Probably'll be this weekend; but next stop, DMM...

Cheers

 

best of luck and let me know if you have any questions . always around to help!

 

@jands:

Well, this weekend was a full 33% nuttier than normal; but I was able to elucidate at least one thing: The previous MAF sensor cleaning attempts have represented incremental failure.

Took the sensor out, popped off the Holy Mother! clips which hold the safety screens in place, and, after thanking God for my intact eyeball, noticed the filter side of the Platinum sensor wire had a nice, baked-on finish. Indeed, the wire's all shiny and clean on the intake side...

A little more of the rubbing alcohol treatment seems to have improved things, but we still have a nice turd-brown layer to melt. So, it's off to the corner parts store for a can of MAF oven cleaner. Might not be the whole answer, but, apart from those nasty retaining clips, this'll be a can't miss effort no matter what

More to come --

 

Update:

The physics of cleaning a platinum wire which has been subjected to a routine 1000C bake-in at each shutdown seems to be beyond the scope of the so-called spray MAF cleaners. These products are apparently just plastic-safe degreasers; and the material which winds up setting in place on these repeatedly baked Platinum surfaces is crud of an entirely different kind.

This can be confirmed by sending inquiry to the relevant product manufacturer and asking about the cleanability of this residue using their spray. Good luck even getting an answer: My missive was totally ignored by technical support even after several attempts.

In reality, research here indicates a wire surface so contaminated may be rehabilitated only by a good soak in boiling aqua regia. Obviously, this is totally infeasible in the context of an automotive MAF sensor assembly...

So, it's off to find something with a clean, intact wire for a try. If it works, I'll probably look into pulling the plug on the regular "self clean" cycle for the new part; as I don't want to jump back on this gravy train anytime in the future...

 

just an FYI, i tried a few aftermarket MAF sensors brand new and i kept getting the code...in the end only a true volvo MAF cleared it

 

Why, jands, doesn't this surprise me

For my part, I'm getting two different sensor numbers called out for my '95. The Bosch unit which is presently installed seems to cross off to a discontinued stock item (of course); and, even if it wasn't NLA, it'd certainly never find its way to my doorstep with a quarter-grand pricetag!

OTOH, I have a possible advantage conferred by working under the old OBDI architecture. Being more primitive, maybe both part numbers are valid for the car, IDK. At any rate, I'll rummage about to find what can be had for a mere scalding, and see how the old brute takes to it.

Scamazon's guarantee can sometimes be helpful in these cases.

 

Update:

Just bagged the item --
1995 Volvo 960 Mass Air Flow Meter All Models - [With OEM 8602794 or 8251499] 49-00498 AN

1 year warranty from a BBB A+ supplier

It crosses off nicely to a couple of other sources. Turns out, the unit is not swappable with the more common (Volvo 9146483) version due to dissimilar connector plug layouts:

SPECTROMATIC LTD: SM 280 213 025 - air mass sensor 0280213025 7648065 1271861 8251499 VOLVO 960 LANCIA KAPPA

SPECTROMATIC LTD: SM 280 217 511 - air mass sensor VOLVO 9146483 BOSCH 0 280 217 511 0280217511

Well, at least this'll be better than a dubious spraycan dousing; and we'll just box it up and toss it back if there's any trouble.

All for now, but I'll tell of the findings in a few days' time.

Have a great weekend!

 

oh i forgot you have a 95....if it doesnt work i have a 95 MAF sensor in my garage from my parts car (it was a 95)....i had a blonde moment i am sorry... u located in the us?

 

Thanks, jands, for the offer...

We'll see how it all comes together later in the week (or, probably, this upcoming weekend; given Murphy and his proclivities). Ya never know with this stuff

BTW -- wish I had a "parts car" for the pickings! Must be great to have an onsite "store" for all your Volvo bits

Have a great week!

 

it was great, a lot of parts however dont go from a 95 to a 96....and then there were parts i should have taken before junking the shell that i didnt. hope to hear how it all turns out!