Right before x-mas my car wouldn't start when going home for the start of x-mas. I was able to get it towed and get it inside heated garage and my mech. said you got bad gas as it started right up after 30 minutes inside and only charged the battery and the nightmare began.

I put in isopropyl gas treatment and foolishly thought i was good now as my car always ran great and it was about a week later and had to get it towed again resulting in putting in new gas filter at this point hoping it was over, bad thought. so now the car is running although poorly with issues of missing ,loss of power and hesitation when accelerating.

One day after work come out car wont hardly start looked under hood and noticed a hose was being sucked shut when I was manually reving up engine. after investigating this found a volvo dealer 100 miles away that has been extremely helpful thru phone contact and offering good advice and am unable to drive the car to the dealer cause once the engine reaches operating temp it starts missing terribly and it surely wont get up to safe speed to drive in the twin cities and I drive my car to work every day but still haven't gotten the car running good again.

So with the dealers suggestion I removed the inter cooler and all duct work that is connected to turbo and got all ice and water out of the system now. As I removed the duct work that runs between the air box and the turbo i disconnected the vacuum lines the mass air flow sensor on the bottom of the plastic duct work there is a 2 prong plug that goes into it and I am not able to find the wire that plugs into the piping anywhere and later found out that is for the PTC which stands for pre heat turbo control. I decide that isn't my problem cause for months it ran fine without it being hooked up.

Ok got it fixed now I'm thinking confidently. O no that helped but still not right by now am beginning to get sick of winter and cars in general. I developed a pattern that when the car is cold it runs fine and once it gets warm the missing and stall outs are a guarantee.

Next we checked the fuel pressure regulator and it was bad vacuum line had gas in it. Ooh by the way forgot to mention check engine light was on and off at will since I purchased the car. I wasn't aware that volvo's brains lol(computer) is involved with fuel mixture and other things are regulated by the 02 sensor and that had been known for the whole time by me to have been bad. Volvo dealer taught me about that.

Ok this is gonna be the cure . runs better but still not good and about now all my co workers are talking about selling my car and blah blah blah. ooh and forgot having very hard time starting car after it was able to get to normal operating temp and car woulds sit for 2- 3 hours and the starting problem is from excessive fuel being supplied to the point of it has the talent of making it backfire thru the throttle body sometimes and is very hard on my poor car. had replaced the plugs on it and were properly gaped . and finally my only code now is P1310 which on my code reader and message says for that code (definition not found) called every where and looked online cant find it let alone what it is meaning either. also am aware that volvo has there own set of codes and need to have a volvo specific code reader. I found a site yesterday selling volvo code reader or software for other brand code readers. I know there is many things I haven't menTioned yet but will as I remember them or in response to question from you good people.

Its in your knowledgeable minds in the group here to come up with ideas or what to do next or send comments and questions so this will be a resolved matter. THANK YOU ALL NOW IN ADVANCE for your efforts in helping me. Whenever anything was replaced or if there was any question the battery connection was unhooked and cleared the computer so that is not the issue either. FEEL FREE TO HELP AS i AM OUT OF IDEAS AND MONEY.

THANKS AGAIN AND GOD BLESS US ALL

 

Hey Rex, welcome to the forum.

You have a lot of info in your post, most of which is confusing to me. A lot of it is also fragmented and incomplete so you may have to clear up a few things.

#1, I seriously doubt that you had bad gas.

#2, There needs to be some complete trouble shooting done to figure out your problem, which may be a combination of things.

I believe that you initial problem may have started with a failing fuel pump or fuel pump relay. That is very common amoung these cars. You did not mention how long you have had the car, how many miles it has nor how well it has been maintained. Those things to matter.

When you have had parts replaced, what brand did you use. It matters a lot with these old Volvo's. There are a limited number of manufacturers that make parts that work well with these 850's. I have a number of questions that need to be answered for guys on here to help you without seeing the car themselves.

1) When you installed spark plugs, what brand and pn were they?
2) How old are the spark plug wires (they have a date stamp on them)?
3) What brand spark plug wires are installed?
4) When was the last time the rotor replaced (and what brand)?
5) When was the last time the distributor cap replaced (and what brand)?
6) When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?
7) What fuel pressure did you guys come up with when the car is running?
8) Has the MAF been cleaned?
9) When was the last time the PCV system been replaced?

It may be a good idea for you to find a good Volvo mechanic near you or see if somone on this forum is located close to you to help you out. Your location is to general.

You may also want to read the NEW 850 OWNER thread, it has good info to help you get the car to Stage 0 tuned up condition. A lot of time these cars run rough from the basic maintenance not being done or done correctly.

 

ok let me slow down and give you what i know and btw i live in albert lea .
I have owned the car since nov. of 2012 i am unaware of the vehicles maintenance past but the car ran good when i bought it and other than oil changes and checking fluid levels it hasn't needed anything other than a spindle bearing go out and i replaced various front end suspension parts as it was rattling and wandering when i would let my hands off the wheel.
when the suspension was all done i had front end aligned and bought new tires for it and it rides nicely now and goes straight when letting go of the wheel on flat road.
the car has 136k and the odometer does not work so that is up in the air on actual miles .
for the maintenance or lack of that i can asses by myself it hasn't received the proper regular servicing and preventative things being done or kept up as i would have liked or as the car deserves.
#1 for the bad gas issue i took off the hose in the front and center area of the car which would be the top center area of a normal cars radiator location( and that was the hose that i mentioned had been being sucked shut when the car first began acting up) when i looked inside it there was ice more towards the front of the car on its way to the inter cooler and that is when i called the volvo dealer and he informed me what to do and removing the duct work and the inter cooler and clean out the duct work as i did in my heated garage and there was a good amount of ice clear and clean looking that was removed.
#2 the fuel pump was looked at as i had a gas leak when tank would be totally full i could see gas leaking out under the car and found out it was a flat gasket or washer if you will then it took care of the leak. i have no idea when the fuel filter was replaced before i did it but would assume not for some time as it had very little air coming out when i blew thru it.
as for the spark plugs they were autolite iridium and i cant give you the plug number right now as i have only the reciept and it states 6418 or IX 1 E 15650090 but they did match the plugs that were replaced. as for the cap rotor and wires no clue again on how old or condition and there weren't wires in town at the time when i got plugs but i didnt have the extra cash at the time either but it did help with the plugs and i will go find out about the wires now for the date stamp the ones on the car are bosch opti premium 7mm opti wire but cant find anything else but under the cover could say more but its dark out and i don't want to start messing with that right now but all should be replaced in my book cap rotor and wires.
the 02 sensor was oem denso, the fuel pressure reg was a bosch.
The fuel pressure while running and after shut off 5 minutes held at 43 lbs as for the maf it was unplugged when car was missing bad and it at best stayed the sameand when unplugged at idle and car running badly it killed the engine when unplugged what cleaner do you use on the maf and what about cleaning the thin piece in the middle that looks like a circuit board will be waiting on your suggestions from this point. ooh i forgot too on the piece of duct work that connects from the air cleaner and goes down to the turbo there are spots for 2 vacuum lines i believe what is the upper spot used for and yet a 3rd spot that has what seems to be where a 2 prong plug goes in but i can't find either the upper vacuum hose or the 2 pronged wire anywhere possibly some knows what connects to those 2 spots and there importance

 

For starters, these 850 Volvo's like the old school spark plugs with the old tip on them. I usually only use the Volvo plugs, they look like the picture below. If the plugs you installed has multiple tips on them I would replace them. Some people have success with other plugs like NGK or Champion (that manual actually recommends a specific Champion plug).
1995 Volvo 850



On wires, cap and rotor... The most success comes with Volvo or Bongie wires, bosch cap and rotor. The Volvo wires have a date stamp on them, 10-97 (which means 10th week, 1997). You can pull your cap off and look inside of it to see what kind of shape it appears to be in. If all the brass contacts look new and clean it's likely ok. If they look scared or burnt, it likely needs to be changed.

What I don't understand is if the car is running now or not??? If you put alcohol in the tank and you think that is messing up the fuel mix and causing it not to fire properly you may need to drain the tank. I'm not sure what would be the best method of doing that but maybe you can disconnect the fuel filter and drain it into a pan or containers that way. If the gas is contaminated it needs to be disposed of properly. Once the tank is empty put at least 10 gallons of 91+ octane fuel in the tank and purge the system by opening the end of the fuel rain and let the car pump the fuel through the lines. Maybe a gallon will be enough to clear the bad stuff out of the lines, maybe two will be better. Once the fresh gas is up to the rail, try to start the car and see if it will run. You may have to dry out the chambers if it fails to start and replace the plugs. The plugs may be damaged from the other situation.

My guess is that all this started because you have a bad fuel pump relay which is very common with these cars. If a mechanic doesn't know that, they may think that warming the car up or something did the trick when in reality the relay is very intermittant.

As for the MAF, auto part store sell a spray cleaner that says MAF cleaner on the can. You simply spray the inside of the MAF including the small part in the center. Don't over do it. MAF's usually cause hard running situation, not really misfires. As you may know, the MAF controls the air.

Some of the air tubing that you discribed, especially the part that goes back to the turbo is part of the PCV system. The specific part that goes to the back of the motor with the 2 tubes and wire harness is the PTC. Knowing that the car has been neglected, the system likely needs to be REPLACED. There are instructions for the job in the 850 DIY Thread.

I'm still not sure why anything other than fuel treatment was ever added to the fuel tank. I'm not sure if that damaged fuel injectors or anything.

This is what I would do... A compression test. If for some reason that you have bad compression, nothing else will matter. These cars, when not properly maintained, have a history of burnt (chipped valves). This causes misfires, rough running, stalls and no-start conditions.
Compression Test - Volvo S70 GLT, 1998

 

Fix the vacuum leaks at the PTC.
Find, replace, make whatever it takes to get it functional. Not having it hooked up but saying it ran fine isn't an answer as having the system disconnected may have screwed something else up and it took that long for a problem to surface. I doubt it's your main problem also but it's important to have anything with vacuum that may be causing a leak corrected so you can rule it out.

If it starts OK cold but begins to miss once it's starting to warm up the other thing to check would be the temperature sender. If it's not sending a warmer temp to the computer as the engine is warming up the engines computer is going to be sending a rich signal to the injectors and killing the engine with too much gas.

As for the fuel additive, something like "Heet" ?? If it was a couple dollar isopropanol additive it shouldn't have been able to do anything but good if you did in fact have some water in your fuel.

 

ok thank you for the info and the diagrams well the vacuum side of this was hooked up but the wiring at the ptc wasn't but i found the plug and now that is the way it should be. i replaced one vacuum line that was the one color coded as the yellow running from the bottom end of the intake pipe that is nearest the ptc.
I see it is routed from the tcv at the yellow port and runs down to the vacuum device(i assume it is the bypass valve from the diagram) located directly above where i take off the intake pipe at the waste gate if that is calling things by the correct names and hopefully you understand what i am saying.
Inside the intake tube at the bottom there was brown looking stuff coating the inside of the pipe that obviously wasn't supposed to be there but i cleaned it out as best i could with rags before reinstalling it while i had the piping all out i took off the dist. cap and found the wettest inside of a cap i have ever seen in my life.
I cant believe the car even ran with that amount of liquid inside the cap so i dried that out and found alot of grease was also inside the cap as well black dried oil is what it looked like to me and the outside of the cap was having engine oil residue on it as well. needless to say i was able to get a cap and rotor from one parts store in town actually had them on hand but not my choice of brands but none had any good choices as far as brands so without any options i bought the duralast cap and rotor and will put them on here shortly.
Also i did unhook the connection area at the throttle body and cleaned it as best i could with starting fluid and used it to clean the m.a.f. sensor as well. even with the bad cap and rotor the car made a huge improvement close to the way it ran when i got it.
So i am confident that soon my car will be once again as reliable as it has been for me the whole time i owned it before this learning experience started cause i don't care what anyone thinks about my volvo but me she's a keeper. now if i can figure out how to post pics of her in my garage area and in the member gallery both would be awesome to give Ms.Houston her props. thanks again have a blessed day
P.S. Now to find out about the temp sending unit. as far as the fuel add. i had used heet brand way back when it was towed the frst time. Before that i put in a can of sea foam when the car started missing slightly before all this started.

 

Hurrah! The cap is getting oil in there. Replace the PCV and the seepage may stop.

 

rspi,
I see you are right on it, and thank you for all your help so far. the plugs i used are single tip, you have read all the other stuff i did so you are up to speed on that.
Now i believe when i reinstalled the cover over the plug wires and had to replace some of the studs because they stripped the heads trying to loosen them that is where the oil is coming from and that is my fault i didn't tighten them enough being too careful to not overtighten them for next time i have to take the cover off so that should end that situation for the new cap.
When i had everything stripped down last night there was tranny fluid rather small amount in areas where it could collect on top of the trannyt and spoecifically in the area say between the dist. cap and straight across to the air box.
The pcv is the one that is mounted on the end of the airbox is that correct and the tcv is the one with red,yellow,blue color coded vacuum lines well dots color coded to distinguish which are what color.
There also was engine oil in the form of possibly slightly coating vacuum lines and all on the tcv and the pcv and looks like was my fault again from not having the cover tight and the fan helping to splatter small amounts all in that area.
The car has multiple leaks as well and will be addressing them after the issue at hand is finalized

 

my model being a 850 T-5, doesn't have a pcv valve from my research it has a oil trap that catches the oil and now it makes sense about the brown stuff in the intake tube. i bet the oil catcher is full and needs to be drained. is that sound like what is going on? as for the oil inside the dist. cap could it be the cam seal leaking? ok i took it apart and got to the cam seal now and guess what the cam seal wasn't seated in where it should be basically just hangin out so is this a high pressure forcing it out or just a shot seal? and does the oil catcher being full causing the high pressure?

 

This is where you get "Volvo Speak". Flame trap, PCV, PTC (turbo) and Oil Drain Trap can get confusing but function together. The oil drain trap is the same as a PCV and most call it PCV as it's easier but now YOU are correcting US with the proper term.

See how that works ?? Feel a little better

It doesn't get drained or cleaned but you can try. Others have tried cleaning them out with mixed results according to their reports. It's a replacement part and usually it's a good idea to do the vacuum hoses at the same time as they can get restricted from the inside and you don't see it happening. You have to take off the intake manifold to get to it. It's not cheap but it's a good investment in the health of your engine.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...ic.php?t=28487

If that "PCV" black box is restricted or the vacuum hoses clogged you will have high inside engine pressure and that pressure will push oil past ever seal it can irregardless of their condition being good or bad. The bad one's just leak more
That pressure comes from blow by. Some gasses will get past the rings in any engine and they are sucked back into the intake with a "normal" PCV in a normal engine to burn them and put a slight vacuum to the engines crankcase. Vovlo engineers needed to do this too but chose this black box approach. If only they had put the pipe down sooner.

 

On the turbo controllers vacuum lines, DON'T go by color. You never know who was in there before you. Make sure they connect from one position to the other position as shown in the diagram. If the hose is so old it's still marked with it's "color" it should be replaced due to age and you never know if you haven't followed each line if the red, yellow or .... whatever really goes from the red dot on the ... to the red dot on the .... First time, physically follow each line and make sure you're hooked up correctly.

The cover that covers the ignition wires is mostly cosmetic. I've had mine off for a year. It protects the wires but doesn't seal anything. If you're getting oil up there it's likely coming from under the oil fill cap. You might have a weak gasket and you can get just the gasket but it might also be forced out by crankcase pressure.

Also i did unhook the connection area at the throttle body and cleaned it as best i could with starting fluid and used it to clean the m.a.f. sensor as well
Slap in back of YOUR head.
Did you clean the throttle plate and MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor with starting fluid ??
The throttle plate has a coating to keep it form corroding and is very sensitive to chemicals. You only use throttle body cleaner to clean a throttle body or plate. It's why they look a little yellow. That's the protective coating. Same with the MAF, it's fairly expensive and it's best to use the proper cleaner so you're not causing a worse problem than your trying to fix.

 

i guess i better stop listening to my old mech. i went to his place cause i figured he had the proper cleaner to use my bad .and yes i did on everything but the throttle plate was black and only sprayed some on a paper towel to clean it hope it wasn't too damaging on the coating.

I surely wasn't trying to correct anyone I am only able to do some stuff on cars nothing electrical for sure didn't mean to say anything out of line I apologize if anyone took it that way.

As for the lines yes I did follow the correct routes just mentioned the color to make sure people knew exactly where or what I was talking about.

So that pressure is what pushed my cam seal out then?

For some reason my engine is idling higher than normal any idea what my stupid a.. did to cause that?

So I need to get a new black box and go ahead and put new vacuum lines on for proper method of fixing the excess oil and pressure in the crankcase and keep the brown crap from circulating thru the system?

 

Rex, you are doing good. The Prince was complimenting you on using the proper terms.

As said, the plastic cover on top of the motor is mostly cosmetic.

Yes you are correct in thinking that the motor is building pressure because of the oil trap. However, the oil trap is part of a system which is the PCV system (Positive Crankcase Ventilation System). There is very little chance that the box it full, however, the tubes and lines that are a part of that system get old, hard, brittle, and do break and loose their vacuum seal. The ports that the oil box connect to the block to also get pretty clogged stopping the system from flowing air properly. Here is the best link I have found to change the system (to each his own).

PCV Replacement

https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-...ginners-18639/

Once you replace that system the pressure will be moving good in the system and any and all oil leaks will likely stop. If they don't, go ahead and replace the leaking seals. I'm a big believer in using the OEM Volvo seals on the cams. So the seal behind the rotor should be replaced with an OEM Volvo seal.

If I had to guess I would say that your car is idling high because you used the WRONG cleaner on the throttle body and MAF. Hopefully you didn't destroy the MAF. That is why I told you to go to the store and PURCHASE MAF CLEANER to clean it.

Sounds like you are doing better and getting the hang of this old car.

 

It is normal for some oil to get into the PCV system on the turbo cars. That is why the system needs to be replaced after several years.

 

As for correcting "us", feel free, anytime, anywhere as you'll notice sarcasm is a way of life here and there's nothing better than showing up Rspi

Well,,, at least I think so. I haven't caught him yet but when I do, whamo!

 

Have to entertain ourselves somehow.

 

Took the car out for a good drive tonite put on 60 miles and it was no longer showing signs of missing or any hesitation but am waiting on new cam seal; and will replace the pcv system and lines when they arrive.
Its been a drastic improvement hopefully things will stay at least this good for the car till I get everything straightened out with it and see how she is supposed to be functioning.
Thank you both and i am sure that I will be having much more to ask about and like where do I find and what is the best manual for the car do you think also about how much. have a blessed eve.
p.s. but for 800 you gotta expect to fix some things

 

These are great cars. You will likely not need a manual, the guys around here will help you more than a manual will.

 

parts stores dont have any or can get any for my 97 850 t-5 and the online ones dont have bits and pieces I live in albert lea, mn open for replys

 

OK YOU GUYS WROTE ALOT I DIDNT SEE AND ANSWERED MY STUFF BEFORE I ASKED IT COOL AND YES ITS MY GUESS TOO WHY ITS IDLING HIGHER oops rspi so im looking and catching up on my reading i missed glad i didnt find all the parts yet so time to get back to my homework thanks guys. ok should i replace the whole system what do you think ? the hoses where they attach at the ptc dont have clamps on either of them and fit loosely but would not be a good vacuum seal so i would say new and get clamps on all connection spots but not sure about the trap replace or not I know the right way is to replace it. I Definately have to replace which ever seals are still leaking after this will it affect whether or not the seals continue to leak if i wasnt to put a new oil trap on ? and is there actually a pcv valve on this car at the oil trap area is my guess if there is