Buffing and Waxing
#1
02-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Buffing and Waxing
My son has finally decided to dress up the finish on his black 850. The original paint is in good shape, but suffers from inattention.
What kind of paint is it? What is the best product to clean and polish? What is the best wax to use for a car that gets washed sporadically and waxed only once a year?
Thanks,
JM
What kind of paint is it? What is the best product to clean and polish? What is the best wax to use for a car that gets washed sporadically and waxed only once a year?
Thanks,
JM
#2
02-01-2006, 12:41 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
http://www.starquestclub.com/forums/...ic.php?t=33131
I washed and waxed my '93 Accord on Saturday. I used the same brand of car wax that I've used for the past 20 years -- Rain Dance. Without much effort I was able to remove smashed bugs and road tar from the front and sides of the car. The whole job took about 2 1/2 hours.
For Kim's newly purchased '97 850T-5R, I decided that I better use the good stuff -- so I ran out and bought Mother's Clay Bar System and Mother's Carnuba Cleaner Wax. I had to make two rounds around the car -- Once for Clay Bar System and Twice for waxing. Not counting the time to do Clay Bar System, I spent 3 1/2 hours to wash and wax her car.
Rain Dance paste is much softer and I can apply it the car and my orbital buffer much faster. Mothers wax is much harder and I had a difficult time applying it to car and buffer.
Why does Mother's wax rated much higher than Rain Dance? Most auto parts stores have stopped stocking Rain Dance on their shelves. Rain Dance was pretty popular in the 80's. Why don't people use Rain Dance brand car wax anymore?
I washed and waxed my '93 Accord on Saturday. I used the same brand of car wax that I've used for the past 20 years -- Rain Dance. Without much effort I was able to remove smashed bugs and road tar from the front and sides of the car. The whole job took about 2 1/2 hours.
For Kim's newly purchased '97 850T-5R, I decided that I better use the good stuff -- so I ran out and bought Mother's Clay Bar System and Mother's Carnuba Cleaner Wax. I had to make two rounds around the car -- Once for Clay Bar System and Twice for waxing. Not counting the time to do Clay Bar System, I spent 3 1/2 hours to wash and wax her car.
Rain Dance paste is much softer and I can apply it the car and my orbital buffer much faster. Mothers wax is much harder and I had a difficult time applying it to car and buffer.
Why does Mother's wax rated much higher than Rain Dance? Most auto parts stores have stopped stocking Rain Dance on their shelves. Rain Dance was pretty popular in the 80's. Why don't people use Rain Dance brand car wax anymore?
#3
02-01-2006, 12:43 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
burton
PostPosted: September 22, 2005, 3:47 am
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A cleaner wax is not going to give you the shine and slickness of a true wax. Personaly I wasn't never much of a fan of the Rain Dance. IMO it wasn't any better than Turtle Wax and that stuff is junk.
First I started out with the Mother's California Gold wax that came in the tin. I'd put it on by hand and remove it with an orbital.
Then I got turned on to The Treatment and Zymol and used only that- they came out hella sooth like the Mother's, but had a bit deeper of a shine.
A few years later I tried the Meguiar's 3-step and was hooked. Since then I have used nothing but Meguiar's on any car I detail. I always use the clay bar after washing it then start in on the 3-step. Last year Meguiars came out with Tech Wax which is awesome. I now have replaced the regular wax step of the 3-step with the Tech Wax. If I do a car thats got a really bad finish I will do the normal 3-step then do the Tech Wax as a 4th step. Sure its time consuming compared to a single coat of wax, but its not too bad if you put it on and take it off with the orbital. And don't waste your time with doing 2 or 3 panels at a time unless you are doing it outside which I don't reccomend. I pull in the garage put on step one (body scrub) over the entire car with the orbital, smoke a cig, change the bonnet then remove in the exact same order you put it on. If some areas smudge a bit don't worry too much you have more steps to do. Using the same bonnet apply step two (cleaner wax). Smoke cig (optional), change bonnet and remove same as before. Again use the current bonnet to apply the final coat wether it be 3rd step, Tech Wax or 4 step (which I highly recomend Wink ). On the last coat I apply the wax to the entire car- lights (shines up dull plastic lenses), glass (works better than Rain X and is easier to apply), wheels and any black trim that isn't textured (trim like the black C-pillar pieces by the hatch on SQs). In the areas the buffer won't get I apply it by hand with that bonnet after I've done the rest of the car. Then I let it dry for at least a 1/2 hour- more if it is cold or real humid. After that I put on a fresh bonnet and take it off in the same order. Then I flip the bonnet over and go over the whole thing again. Finally, I go around with a nice soft towel and get all the nooks and crannies that the orbital missed and wipe the dust out of all the door jams and such.
I know this is a huge long rant and it sounds like a ton of work, but its not bad. 3 hours start to finish for a first-timer I bet (I can do it in less than 2), and half of that time is spent waiting on coats of wax to dry. Its worth it, I'm tellin ya' it will blow your freakin' mind Shocked
And once you do it all you have to do to keep it up is do the last step by itself every 3,000 miles or so. I like to do the multi step process every 10-12,000 miles or so, but its probably not necessary unless you are **** about it like me.
Once again sorry to rant or post hijack or whatever but you guys gotta do this. You will love yourself and your car more for it.
PostPosted: September 22, 2005, 3:47 am
Reply with quote
A cleaner wax is not going to give you the shine and slickness of a true wax. Personaly I wasn't never much of a fan of the Rain Dance. IMO it wasn't any better than Turtle Wax and that stuff is junk.
First I started out with the Mother's California Gold wax that came in the tin. I'd put it on by hand and remove it with an orbital.
Then I got turned on to The Treatment and Zymol and used only that- they came out hella sooth like the Mother's, but had a bit deeper of a shine.
A few years later I tried the Meguiar's 3-step and was hooked. Since then I have used nothing but Meguiar's on any car I detail. I always use the clay bar after washing it then start in on the 3-step. Last year Meguiars came out with Tech Wax which is awesome. I now have replaced the regular wax step of the 3-step with the Tech Wax. If I do a car thats got a really bad finish I will do the normal 3-step then do the Tech Wax as a 4th step. Sure its time consuming compared to a single coat of wax, but its not too bad if you put it on and take it off with the orbital. And don't waste your time with doing 2 or 3 panels at a time unless you are doing it outside which I don't reccomend. I pull in the garage put on step one (body scrub) over the entire car with the orbital, smoke a cig, change the bonnet then remove in the exact same order you put it on. If some areas smudge a bit don't worry too much you have more steps to do. Using the same bonnet apply step two (cleaner wax). Smoke cig (optional), change bonnet and remove same as before. Again use the current bonnet to apply the final coat wether it be 3rd step, Tech Wax or 4 step (which I highly recomend Wink ). On the last coat I apply the wax to the entire car- lights (shines up dull plastic lenses), glass (works better than Rain X and is easier to apply), wheels and any black trim that isn't textured (trim like the black C-pillar pieces by the hatch on SQs). In the areas the buffer won't get I apply it by hand with that bonnet after I've done the rest of the car. Then I let it dry for at least a 1/2 hour- more if it is cold or real humid. After that I put on a fresh bonnet and take it off in the same order. Then I flip the bonnet over and go over the whole thing again. Finally, I go around with a nice soft towel and get all the nooks and crannies that the orbital missed and wipe the dust out of all the door jams and such.
I know this is a huge long rant and it sounds like a ton of work, but its not bad. 3 hours start to finish for a first-timer I bet (I can do it in less than 2), and half of that time is spent waiting on coats of wax to dry. Its worth it, I'm tellin ya' it will blow your freakin' mind Shocked
And once you do it all you have to do to keep it up is do the last step by itself every 3,000 miles or so. I like to do the multi step process every 10-12,000 miles or so, but its probably not necessary unless you are **** about it like me.
Once again sorry to rant or post hijack or whatever but you guys gotta do this. You will love yourself and your car more for it.
#4
02-01-2006, 12:45 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
I do appreciate the research, study, and experience that both of you have put into your recommendations. I need send my cheap $25 orbital buffer off to Goodwill and buy a decent orbital buffer. What brand makes a nice orbital buffer?
On my to-do list, I have listed purchase a DeWalt DW849 Polisher for under $230 -- it has a rpm limiter to prevent burning thru the paint -- and use Meguiar's Cutting and Buffing Pad (Polisher Backing Plate W64DA, and pad WDAV99B). For step #1, I was planning to use 3M's Paint Cleanser using my new DeWalt polisher. Then, I would use my new orbital buffer for something like Mother's, Meguiar's, or Zaino cleanser wax and finish it all off with one of their final step products.
Maybe, someday soon, I should make the time to clean, polish, and wax my daily drivers -- '93 Accord and '84 Maxima -- the proper way. For now, I chose to use a one-step cleaner/wax, so I can have some sort of protection against rust to get both cars ready for Winter.
I like Rain Dance (in Paste Can, NOT Liquid Bottle). Both cars have dried bug guts on the paint around the grill. Both cars have some tree sap from being parked under maple trees. Both cars have old black Road tar along the sides. Rain Dance seems to cut thru and remove all of that bad stuff. It is very easy to put on. It doesn't leave much debris in my cotton t-shirts when coming off.
My guess is that Rain Dance may be one of those Silicon-based waxes. Silicon-based waxes were popular in the 80's and now shunned in the 90's -- replaced by Carnuba based waxes.
For chuckles, I took a look at my May 2000 issue of Consumer Reports -- thinking that they might have a good recommendation for a nice one-step wax. All of their top-20 recommendations were in liquid bottle, except for #3 Nu Finish Paste. They even ranked Turtle Wax Paste above Mothers and Meguiar's which were ranked at the bottom.
On my to-do list, I have listed purchase a DeWalt DW849 Polisher for under $230 -- it has a rpm limiter to prevent burning thru the paint -- and use Meguiar's Cutting and Buffing Pad (Polisher Backing Plate W64DA, and pad WDAV99B). For step #1, I was planning to use 3M's Paint Cleanser using my new DeWalt polisher. Then, I would use my new orbital buffer for something like Mother's, Meguiar's, or Zaino cleanser wax and finish it all off with one of their final step products.
Maybe, someday soon, I should make the time to clean, polish, and wax my daily drivers -- '93 Accord and '84 Maxima -- the proper way. For now, I chose to use a one-step cleaner/wax, so I can have some sort of protection against rust to get both cars ready for Winter.
I like Rain Dance (in Paste Can, NOT Liquid Bottle). Both cars have dried bug guts on the paint around the grill. Both cars have some tree sap from being parked under maple trees. Both cars have old black Road tar along the sides. Rain Dance seems to cut thru and remove all of that bad stuff. It is very easy to put on. It doesn't leave much debris in my cotton t-shirts when coming off.
My guess is that Rain Dance may be one of those Silicon-based waxes. Silicon-based waxes were popular in the 80's and now shunned in the 90's -- replaced by Carnuba based waxes.
For chuckles, I took a look at my May 2000 issue of Consumer Reports -- thinking that they might have a good recommendation for a nice one-step wax. All of their top-20 recommendations were in liquid bottle, except for #3 Nu Finish Paste. They even ranked Turtle Wax Paste above Mothers and Meguiar's which were ranked at the bottom.
#5
02-01-2006, 12:47 PM
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#6
02-01-2006, 12:50 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
More Info...
Auto Detailers Website and Forum
http://autopia.org/
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html
If I had to name a single product that has caused the most excitement and confusion among car appearance enthusiasts in the past ten years, it would have to be the Porter Cable 7424 Random-Orbit 6†Polisher. Its name alone is a huge source of confusion, as it goes by several different nomenclatures, including “PC†(Porter Cable), “DA polisher†(dual-action polisher), “ROB†(random orbit buffer), or any of its model variants, including 7334, 7335 or 7336.
Another response...
Here's my full-blown detailing regimen:
1) Wash car: 2 buckets (one for soap, one to rinse mitts), lambskin mitts,
either Meguair's Gold Class or NXT wash.
2) Clay bar the vehicle with Clay Magic.
3) Compound with Menzerna's Intensive Polish (as required)
4) Polish with Menzerna's Final Polish II.
5) Seal/polish with Klasse All-In-One.
6) Top with P21S carnuba.
Another response...
I've done a lot of research on this kind of crap and this is what I have
come up with.
1. Wash - however you do, hose soap and sponge for me.
2. Clay bar - either clay magic or mother's bar. Once out of detailing spray
you can just use soapy water, thats all it is.
3. Cleaner Wax - prepares the surface of the car for the following products.
I use Meguiar's cleaner wax out of their 3 step. It works well.
4. Polish - There are lots of polishes out there. Be sure to use the polish
before the glaze. I use the Meguiar's polish out of the 3 step right now and
then sometimes their show-room polish over that.
5. Wax - I am currently using Meguiar's NXT paste wax. Not sure if I am
totally happy with it or not yet.
6. S100 Carnuba/bees wax sealer. Exactly the same as P21s but cheaper. You
can get it at Harley dealerships.
Autopia is a great site for research. They have a program you can download
once you register that tells you how to do everything, its great!
also to add:
with teh NXT Wax - you have to leave it on for about half an hour before
taking it off to get the full effect. You should then wait in between 24-48
hours and then do a second coat, so it cures.
Then, 24 hours after that, you can put on your S100 or P21s. Boy, now that
stuff smells good!
The S100 is especially good on ligher color paints. It realyl did the trick
on my friends silver E30.
Auto Detailers Website and Forum
http://autopia.org/
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/inf-pc7424.html
If I had to name a single product that has caused the most excitement and confusion among car appearance enthusiasts in the past ten years, it would have to be the Porter Cable 7424 Random-Orbit 6†Polisher. Its name alone is a huge source of confusion, as it goes by several different nomenclatures, including “PC†(Porter Cable), “DA polisher†(dual-action polisher), “ROB†(random orbit buffer), or any of its model variants, including 7334, 7335 or 7336.
Another response...
Here's my full-blown detailing regimen:
1) Wash car: 2 buckets (one for soap, one to rinse mitts), lambskin mitts,
either Meguair's Gold Class or NXT wash.
2) Clay bar the vehicle with Clay Magic.
3) Compound with Menzerna's Intensive Polish (as required)
4) Polish with Menzerna's Final Polish II.
5) Seal/polish with Klasse All-In-One.
6) Top with P21S carnuba.
Another response...
I've done a lot of research on this kind of crap and this is what I have
come up with.
1. Wash - however you do, hose soap and sponge for me.
2. Clay bar - either clay magic or mother's bar. Once out of detailing spray
you can just use soapy water, thats all it is.
3. Cleaner Wax - prepares the surface of the car for the following products.
I use Meguiar's cleaner wax out of their 3 step. It works well.
4. Polish - There are lots of polishes out there. Be sure to use the polish
before the glaze. I use the Meguiar's polish out of the 3 step right now and
then sometimes their show-room polish over that.
5. Wax - I am currently using Meguiar's NXT paste wax. Not sure if I am
totally happy with it or not yet.
6. S100 Carnuba/bees wax sealer. Exactly the same as P21s but cheaper. You
can get it at Harley dealerships.
Autopia is a great site for research. They have a program you can download
once you register that tells you how to do everything, its great!
also to add:
with teh NXT Wax - you have to leave it on for about half an hour before
taking it off to get the full effect. You should then wait in between 24-48
hours and then do a second coat, so it cures.
Then, 24 hours after that, you can put on your S100 or P21s. Boy, now that
stuff smells good!
The S100 is especially good on ligher color paints. It realyl did the trick
on my friends silver E30.
#7
02-01-2006, 12:51 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
burton
PostPosted: September 23, 2005, 1:45 pm
Glazing is very fine polishing. It doesn't actually add protection, it strips off a slight amount of clear to get all the oxidization and other impurities off the car. The more times you glaze, the thinner your clear gets. here's what should happen ultimately...
When new the car should recieve a sealer for the new paint, but not until at least 60 days after it was painted. After that you could continue to seal the car (sealer works very similarly to wax- its a protectant) or wax it every few months. Optimumly you should get the car rubbed out or at least glazed once every year or two. This will remove all the layers of wax or sealer and also help to remove any flaws that have developed in the finish (minor scratches, oxidization, acid marks from sap or bird poo). I personally like to use the 3M Finesse-It for glazing or a stronger 3M glazing compound depending on how bad the car is. After the yearly glazing (every 6 months for an **** guy like me) you could either do the paint sealer or wax, they both are similar products.
As far as clearcoats not needing to be waxed- thats hooey. The whole reason they came up with that is because most waxes used to be silicone based and that was bad for the clear. Now most waxes have eliminated their silicone bases and are going with the carnuba or tech wax style of product. These products will work great on clears and help give it better shine. You don't have to wax clearcoat, but it will look shinier and the clearcoat will last longer with some protection on it. Otherwise if it sits in the sun alot it will fade and the clear will eventually fail and begin to flake off. For instance, look at the finish on the trunk of this car...
Non-working eBay link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ itemZ4577204919
If the original owner had been proactive on maintaining the finish by protecting it with a sealer or wax, this wouldn't look that bad.
I'm going to have to try this Zaino stuff. I've been reading up on it since you guys brought it up in this post and it seems to be pretty dang good. I'm sure it won't be good enough to replace my 3 step regimen, but it may become the replacement for the Tech Wax.
PostPosted: September 23, 2005, 1:45 pm
Glazing is very fine polishing. It doesn't actually add protection, it strips off a slight amount of clear to get all the oxidization and other impurities off the car. The more times you glaze, the thinner your clear gets. here's what should happen ultimately...
When new the car should recieve a sealer for the new paint, but not until at least 60 days after it was painted. After that you could continue to seal the car (sealer works very similarly to wax- its a protectant) or wax it every few months. Optimumly you should get the car rubbed out or at least glazed once every year or two. This will remove all the layers of wax or sealer and also help to remove any flaws that have developed in the finish (minor scratches, oxidization, acid marks from sap or bird poo). I personally like to use the 3M Finesse-It for glazing or a stronger 3M glazing compound depending on how bad the car is. After the yearly glazing (every 6 months for an **** guy like me) you could either do the paint sealer or wax, they both are similar products.
As far as clearcoats not needing to be waxed- thats hooey. The whole reason they came up with that is because most waxes used to be silicone based and that was bad for the clear. Now most waxes have eliminated their silicone bases and are going with the carnuba or tech wax style of product. These products will work great on clears and help give it better shine. You don't have to wax clearcoat, but it will look shinier and the clearcoat will last longer with some protection on it. Otherwise if it sits in the sun alot it will fade and the clear will eventually fail and begin to flake off. For instance, look at the finish on the trunk of this car...
Non-working eBay link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ itemZ4577204919
If the original owner had been proactive on maintaining the finish by protecting it with a sealer or wax, this wouldn't look that bad.
I'm going to have to try this Zaino stuff. I've been reading up on it since you guys brought it up in this post and it seems to be pretty dang good. I'm sure it won't be good enough to replace my 3 step regimen, but it may become the replacement for the Tech Wax.
#8
02-01-2006, 04:37 PM
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RE: Buffing and Waxing
about 1 or 2x a year, i'll do a couple washes w/ dish soap (to strip all the existing wax from it. After that i Clay the entire car... this does wonders at getting all the contaminants out of the paint, but it can take a while. Make sure you never drop the clay, if you do, throw it away and get a new one. After claying, i'll usually wash it w/ regular car wash soap, then i put on a couple coats of wax. I prefer Meguirs Yellow Paste Wax (#26 i believe). i Like the paste waxes more than liquid, but it's just a preference.
#9
02-01-2006, 05:21 PM
#10
02-01-2006, 09:58 PM
RE: Buffing and Waxing
I guess I'm on the other extreme. About once a year maybe even year and a half, I will wax my cars with Nu Finish or somehting like that. When I first bought the V70 I did a real job on it with a buffer and three coats because it just didn't shine when I just waxed it. I got it looking great and now I just wax it maybe once a year. I keep them garaged quite a bit though and that helps keep the finish in pretty good shape.
#11
02-01-2006, 10:10 PM
RE: Buffing and Waxing
Well I would at least have it waxed once a month in the Summer and Spring times. Washed like 2-4 times a month.
I use Turtle Wax and it works very well. I would stay away from the spray on wax that you spray on then dry the car.
A good old buffing mit would do just fine.
I use Turtle Wax and it works very well. I would stay away from the spray on wax that you spray on then dry the car.
A good old buffing mit would do just fine.
#12
02-02-2006, 10:52 AM
RE: Buffing and Waxing
Good day good people,
I don;t want to get into any debate over waxing techniques or products , most of us like to use what works for us!
What I would like to say is that it is a good idea to strip off old wax once a year and start over. This will remove road film, and contaminates that get trapped in the wax, (That's why it's there in the first place!) The best and quickest way I've ever known to remove old wax is a good strong solution of ammonia & water. Plain old ammonia or sudsy ammonia, lemon scent or plain. I use about 1 cup ammonia to 2 gal. warm water, Takes the wax right off.
.............$.02 from a...... Poorman
I don;t want to get into any debate over waxing techniques or products , most of us like to use what works for us!
What I would like to say is that it is a good idea to strip off old wax once a year and start over. This will remove road film, and contaminates that get trapped in the wax, (That's why it's there in the first place!) The best and quickest way I've ever known to remove old wax is a good strong solution of ammonia & water. Plain old ammonia or sudsy ammonia, lemon scent or plain. I use about 1 cup ammonia to 2 gal. warm water, Takes the wax right off.
.............$.02 from a...... Poorman
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