UGGG.

Pulling the head on my 850R this afternoon, one of the 8 head bolts snapped! The bolt broke about 1.5 inches from the bottom, leaving the remaining 1.5" inside the block.

Sooooo.. the way i see it, i have two options and would love some wise counsel...

1) Tow the wagon to a shop, hopefully they are able to extract it.
........any one have any experience doing this?

2) Cut one of the new bolts to just shy the length of the broken bolt, torque the new shorter bolt down a bit less than spec, and call it ghetto, but done, and don't look back.

Thanks for any help!

- Grae

 

Dude, you can't be serious? If you don't get that bolt out of there you'll be pulling that head again. Did you feel the break? If it was coming out, you may be able to get it out yourself.

 

Try this.

Rent one of these:


and buy one of these:






Shouldn't be any problem at all. Switch it on, and the magnetic drill base will stick to the engine block HARD. Chuck up the bolt extractor as the directions say, and have at it. Success will follow momentarily. Done this many times on more than just broken engine bolts. I've used this setup over a hundred feet off the ground and 30 feet below ground on all kinds of equipment.

HTH,

Lynn B.

 

Grr. The second picture didn't stick. I'll try again.






If it doesn't work, go to Lowes.com and look for this:

IRWIN HANSON 5-Piece High Carbon Steel Screw Extractor Set

 

Cheaper than a tow.

 

That looks like it would work if there was part of the bolt still exposed. My bolt is about 1.5" deep into the block.

Looks like a cool rig tho...

 

Oh... To answer to above question... yes I felt it snap, it broke on my first hard pull, which leads me to believe that it is stuck in there to factory specs torque.

 

I dont want to sugar coat this. I recall reading about two people that have had this happen. Both ended up at a shops to have the rest of the bolt extracted. One of them said it cost 1.5 hours of labor to get his out. Some thought that was excessive so you will hopefully be looking at less.

 

Well, I was thinking that you may be able to get it out yourself if you felt it coming out before it broke. If it snapped as soon as you started, you'll likely need a shop.

 

...appreciate the honesty... And im not afraid to pay someone to do it, I just want it done right, no fuss.

Side question, it seems that once the bolt heads were broken loose the rest of the block came out very easily... Is it the head of the bolt that does the work of tightening it, or the threads ? ...... Im imagining a perfect world in which the bolt is now finger loose and if I had a strong enough magnet tool, it might back out easily .... But probably not...

 

I would say both, the threads pull the bolt head down on the head surface. I doubt it's all the way to the bottom of the block, that's why I think you may be able to e-z out it. Just be careful not to mess up the good threads.

 

Looks like it would be impossible to hurt the existing threads, and to use stoopid option #2 anyway, as the the hole in the block isn't threaded all the way through. The bolt snapped right where the threads started. If i go with the drill and tap idea, at least i wont be risking marring the threads.

This sucks


............One bright spot, even though the bolt broke off a bit crooked, leaving not a flat surface to be drilled, i came up with a good idea on starting a tap hole. I just happened to have spacer tube that fit perfectly in the bolt hole, effectively guarding the sides of the hole from drill bit marring, but also it acted as a guide to drill perfectly straight down with a large drill bit. The tapered "pyramid" shape of the large drill bit basically planed out the uneven bolt end, and then gave me a perfect inwards cone shape to center a smaller bit on. Now im ready to start drilling into the bolt at least, whereas before i was just staring at a crooked broken surface.

So, next step, drill.

After that, whats the verdict? Irwin left handed bits or an extractor set ? I understand the idea behind the irwin bits, but how does the extractor work?

Thanks!

 

It's not "torqued" at all. Torque is the clamping force that the bolt applies from the threads to the head when stretched. Without the bolts head there is no torque. In some cases a bolt will break and the remaining part can be unscrewed by hand.

In your case I'm guessing it's either a bit rusted in place and or someone used threadlocker on it.

 

Do i dare trust HF?

12 Piece Screw Extractor Set

 

SUCCESS

WOOOP WOOP!!!!!!!!!!!

Turns out it was absolutely ready to come out! ( maybe the two day soak in PB helped ) Once I got the tip of the extractor screw just barely into the bolt it turned freely "finger loose" and came right out! BUT, ill share the trick that really made it possible and gave me the confidence to proceed on my own. ( which i mentioned above already, but here's the details) ..... I mentioned a spacer tube and large drill bit previously. To shorten the story, the spacer slid into the bolt hole nearly perfectly, the large drill bit slid into the spacer tube perfectly, enabling me drill in straight line, in fact forced me to drill straight. This then created a perfectly centered inverted cone/pyramid shaped valley ( essentially a punch hole to start the pilot hole! ) I practiced this on some of the other bolt tips that will be tossed since I am of course using new head bolts.

The rest is just basically what you all know, drill drill drill, extractor, voila!... but getting that good punch hole started really made it easy. I drilled by hand, slow and steady using PB blaster as lubricant. Probably spent 10 minutes just to get 3/8" deep.. I didn't even have to get very large with the bit, I just decided to use the extractor just to "feel it out" and it started moving readily. Thank the maker it was just loose in there!

Another super helpful tip, I completely covered the engine block, cylinder holes and coolant ports ect, with white duct tape.. keeping the metal flakes ect out of there. That was a huge help too.

Heres my kit :







Feeling pretty victorious, shall i drill it all the way through and make a key chain!?

 

Glad to hear it's out and you still have a useable block

The spacer idea is great. I've drilled out plenty but never thought of it. Nice way to make sure you stay centered as I'm always fighting with the bit walking on the uneven surface. That and protecting the threads you have.

When you put it back together I'd suggest you get some ARP assembly lubricant. I used to use different products but found this to be the end all. Nothing else I know of comes close. This stuff is critical to engines that blow headgaskets because it allows you to reach the desired clamping force ie rotational torque each time, first try. My Thunderbird SC is know for blowing head gaskets with raised boost and that's how I found out about this. A lot of headgasket failures are from torquing to spec on the torque wrench but not actually reaching the proper clamping force that goes with that rotational torque value.
ARP 100-9909 - ARP Ultra Torque Assembly Lubricants - Overview - SummitRacing.com

This is ARPs sales pitch and I've seen the proof it works.

Because of frictional inconsistencies with oil, moly, and other lubricants it takes multiple cycles of torquing the bolt, loosening it, and tightening it again to obtain the required preload or stretch. Typically, when a fastener is first tightened, friction is at its highest point and the preload value or stretch is low. As the fastener is cycled numerous times the friction decreases and the preload increases. This phenomenon is called "preload scatter." With this ARP Ultra Torque assembly lubricant, a fastener need only be torqued once to get within 5 percent of ideal preload, and it remains consistent through all subsequent cycles (from race-prep machining through final assembly). Moreover, given the inconsistencies of ordinary lubes, it is quite possible for adjacent head bolts or studs to have vastly different preloads. This scatter causes bore distortion, hampers piston ring seal, and leads to poor head gasket sealing.

 

Thats great advice! Considering im already dreading the torque process and I havent even gotten the head back yet! ill see if I can find some of it locally!

Thanks again to everyone for the counsel !

 

Woop Woop!!! LOL, Awesome news. Glad you got it done and it wasn't a real pain. The few days of mental pain was likely enough.

Good job man.

I put motor oil on my bolts when I put them in. They were torqued twice but never backed out.

 

Oil is better than nothing but it's really lacking even if you are only doing a standard head gasket replacement. When it comes to a modified or high performance build you need to go with better products. Using ARPs stuff even on a normal gasket replacement just insures you get the specified clamping force. After all, a premature failure of the gasket isn't worth what you save by just using engine oil.

 

Never heard of the stuff to be honest with you. The autoparts store told me to use anti-seize.