Just thought you might want to see the difference.


N/A on the left, Turbo on the right.

 

You going to go with the N/A mani too?
Interesting....

 

I am using the manifold on the left, its a turbo manifold that has been line bored (ported) to fit the N/A throttle body.

 

So have you done dyno testing? What's the delta in HP? Would think it would move the pwr curve up on higher rpm but lose some low end torque..

 

I have never dyno'ed my car. Just dunno.

 

I do see the difference, but won't your low end suffer for a little bit of top end which essentially means you are no faster? Off the line you have no tq, but the hp up top pulls you back to where you "would've" been when you had the stock parts. (If you can visualize that)

Don't know why ppl think that "upgrading" parts on their high performance european turbo car is better than that of factory R&D..

My car has all stock parts (airbox,intercooler,DP,exhaust) but an ARD Remap. That alone makes it hang/walk cars that "should" be faster..

All these "mods" really do is lighten your wallet, and slow you down.

Just upgrade the obvious performance impediments.

 

Have to disagree. Everything helps.

 

No disrespect but......
I have to dis-agree also...

Just because of my experience..
I did the full cat-less exhaust, 93' N/A cams, and 16T wheels on the 15G. All before I got my tune. There was a BIG difference not only in pep and fuel economy but, in power..Although I was running rich at idle and lean mid range, and back-firing at 3K I was happy.

Once Lucky did my tune to my exact specs and enriched fuel at 3K The difference is highly noticeable.

Not only am I going thru my tires twice as fast but when I just take it easy im looking at about 37mpg highway.

Think about it this way.. the factory fresh air line to the turbo disrupts smooth air flow, but sconeman's (snabb) fresh air pipe is smooth... smooth air flow and with the reducer to the turbo it almost acts as a velocity stack..

then again im no engineer or scientist so It could be all in my head.

 

@Vmax

adding to mattyXXL, what your saying is that what you have on your car is all you can do to make it faster...and thats it. Everything else you do slows you down. Think about that for a few.....

 

You can always make your car faster, but adding bigger parts to a factory performance car doesn't necessarily mean better..

For instance, I took my car to FixxFest last weekend, and to my surprise, beat an 850 Turbo (will not name names out of respect for the owners) that has FMIC,intake,snabb fresh air pipe,DP,OBX full exhaust,MBC set @ 18?psi(don't ask me how he didn't hit fuel cut) but no remap. Got him by a few cars.

Another 850R that had DP,OBX full exhaust,ipd intake, MBC set @ 14psi. To my surprise was a close race til my ignition coil went out...(To my 850 brethren which I raced, i'm not talking ****, i'm just stating..lol)

Alot of ppl just change parts just for the sake of it and not really giving it much thought. My affiliate had an E39 M5, got an AEM intake, unknown to me name exhaust, car was slower than stock E39 M5s.

But my argument is really about modding turbo cars not NA. Adding NA throttle body, NA cams I think will hurt low end, FMIC will hurt low end,bigger exhaust will hurt low end (no backpressure). Modding your motor on the stock ECU is a waste of money, tune your ECU to your highest and best psi first(16 pounds for me), then mod if you want to spend more money for little to no gain.

This is all my opinion since I got my remap and hang/walk on cars that should be faster time and time again.. From last weekend's debacle, I am sticking with my stock parts until I see otherwise.

Granted I have changed the obvious impediments (rubber hoses to silicone, brand new OEM sensors,plugs,wires,BCS,EVAP purge valve, synthetic oil)

It may seem like i'm in la-la land, but I have been seriously surprised by how much this little remap really woke up this car..the only thing I will say about stock exhaust is my turbo overheats after full throttle for more than 30 seconds to get to 156mph, doing bigger exhaust will help in that scenario.

All I personally care about is my low end to midrange, by the time your cams get onto Lift,throttle body and short ram intake bring in enough hot air to your "fresh" air pipe, i'm ahead and you're playing catch-up..
Now if you add a bigger turbo,injectors then duh you will be faster than just a tuned ECU on stock high performance parts.

 

@Vmax: Can you post a track time slip. I have one that I had when I took my fully stock T-5R sedan to the track, would like to see what yours is doing. Also, does your car shut down (governed) at 156 mph?

I haven't done a thing to my car. Mainly because I don't have a spare DD and think I would purchase an iPd kit if I decided to do so. Like get a stage I or II kit. I don't think I'd get a stage III kit with a fwd car, to much power at 2 wheels.

I have a friend that had a '98 Eclispe and he said after a few trips to the track he started to get sponsors and they started moding his car for him. He claims that he had a awd Eclispe that would not break tires because of the traction control on it and he could do 60 in about 4.8 seconds, 1/4 in just under 10 secs, and that he lost a helicopter at about 195 mph. Stopped after he crossed a state line but that didn't do him much good. Lost that car.

 

Here's the timeslip on the right cut in half by the timing booth guy (minimize cost I suppose)

The one on the left was when I was bone stock:



Hot and humid day, hoping to go again to another track when it's 70 degrees out like it was when I ran it bone stock)

Here' my 156mph vid if you think i'm talking out my a s s:
http://youtu.be/J5whDa6nMc4(skip to 1:00)
ECU Remapped so no governor, just stopped accelerating.

Oh rspi:

 

Not sure what's up with the bra, going to wrap your steering wheel with it or something?

Thanks for the time slip. Looks like you picked up 1/2 second with the ecu. That talks.

I'm trying to find the slip I posted. Got it:

This is the best time I had at Zmax in Econo setting. I was so excited and busy running my web cam and music, I totally forgot to switch the car into Sport mode. I ran about 6 times in E and kept wondering why the car wasn't pulling strong. I figured it out about 3 hours after I left the track. It was very hot and humid. I ran it in my yellow T-5R that was totally stock and had a bad motor mount. I think S mode would have gained at least .8 seconds. I posted a few youtube video's of the day. The guy in the Honda was pissed. He had done a few things to try to make his V-Tech faster but I still got him. Wish I would have been in S mode.

I never pushed it to try to get close to max speed. I have heard that they pull all the way up pass 140 pretty strong. Looks like yours did. I think it would be hard for a fwd car to do any more than 13 due to traction problems. BoxPin has a good strong car but I think one would do better in a AWD car, having 4 wheels pulling.

I don't know much about mods so I'm by no means no expert. If I get my hands on a nice V70R or another 850 R I think I'll try to take one to stage 2 or 3 just to have a better sleeper. They are great and don't stand out.

 

I also ran my volvo when it was bone stock. Here is a picture of that day two years ago.




After that I purchased my IPD Stage 1 ECU then headed to the track again. That night my best was a 15.01. After that I changed the exhaust, turbo, intake but running the same ECU. I ran a 14.1. So 'Stuff' makes a difference.

 

That's simple. Stock handling, performance and fuel economy are all engineered with tradeoffs. That is what that "factory R&D" did. They made a vehicle that will do the most for the most people.

I'm positive with my sport springs and stiffer struts/shocks I can corner better than that factory engineered suspension with the same tires. But I'm willing to give up some seat of the pants comfort to be able to take an on or off ramp at 60+ and feel safe doing it. And since I'm sitting an inch and a half lower than stock I will bottom out easier on a speed bump or pot hole. That might be why R&D didn't install them at the factory.

There are 2.3 engines out there pushing over 500 horsepower. They must be doing something right as the factory designed engine is only about half of that.

The big trick is to make it better without compromising reliability but it's all a matter of what you're after. If you want to run a 1/4 mile in 6 seconds you have to settle on taking your engine apart after each run. It's all just a matter of what you are looking for in your vehicle.

The reason "we" are here is to find a fix, trade info and or see if we can tweak something to get more out of the old girl! Hope you get the itch.

 

I'm not going to turn you in this time but I don't want to hear that kind of talk again !!


volvo 850 burnout - YouTube

 

That's my point. Burning out makes you loose time and cost money (tires). I already cherp tires at 35 and 57. I don't want it getting much worse than it is.

 

The bra is a pun regarding your story about your eclipse friend.."Cool story bro" is what you'd sarcastically tell someone over the interwebz. "Cool starry bra is a pun on that.

In my experience, using E or S mode does not matter if you're full throttle (kickdown). Sport mode only makes the gearbox downshift happy 1/4-3/4 throttle, it does not make the car faster.

To everyone else, my debate is only about my car on stock parts with a remap versus an 850 T5 with DP,FMIC,exhaust,intake,15g,snabb pipe EXCEPT upgraded turbo or remap.

I understand what you mean by 500hp 2.3 motors, i'm not debating that. Like I said earlier you can make anything faster if you throw some serious parts/money at it..decipher that anyway you want.

 

Ok I've read it!! Ok so the only issue I see would be if you remap you ECU first then add all the bolt on stuff you will have to remap again which cost more $$$! But you can add bolt ons and adjust accordingly to get the most from your car then get a tune that works well with all the parts! I have driven my car in Eco and sport! If you listen to the engine on full throttle on each setting you will notice a big difference!

Yes the factory sets up good. But you can get the most with every part. But you can put many things on and make no difference. Everything added has to meshed together and set right to actually get a gain! Maybe the issue with one of those guys you ran.

But hey at 16psi someone can run 14psi and be running with you then that's the right dirrection! Just depends on set ups! But with that said! Everyone loves their own car in their own way! I bet if you put a 3" OBX on your car you would notice a big difference! But just remember keep it rubber side down!! My $0.02!

 

To me running in eco by accident the car felt the same as running in sport mode, maybe it's a placebo? But S does make the gearbox downshift sooner and holds the gears longer.

I hear you Cliff regarding the aftermarket parts working in sync. I feel if I was able to hang with an 850 Turbo with DP,full exhaust,14psi MBC, ipd intake, then i'll have to give Lucky a big a s s hug!

I respect the sound of the OBX exhaust system, but I also like quiet power..hearing the turbo spool over the hum of the 5 banger is music to my ears!

Ha I hope to never find out how rigid the chassis really is.