The car is running bad more often than good lately and it's kind of a nuisance to drive a car that is misfiring as bad as it does. If you are not familiar with my problems they are well documented on this forum. Bottom line is nobody can figure out why I have an intermittent misfiring on cylinder 1. I have bought new NA Cams, but have not put them in. I also have new lifters for the #1 cylinder and haven't put them in yet either. My gut feel is that neither one will fix the problem. I've had the head of twice and they say nothing is wrong with the head, but when a local Independent Volvo mechanic ran a compression check, he said the problem is in the head. I think the compression was down to like 60 in #1 even when doing a wet test. So they said anyway. After I did all the work myself they don't seem too interested in my car.

I am seriously considering buying aother engine. Before I bought the car it did have the head gasket replaced due to the engine overheating. I put over $1500 in replacing the head gasket due to a burnt valve in cylinder #1. Some days it really feels like it is missing on two cylinders. It runs that rough, but when I push on the gas it smooths right out and takes off with great acceleration.

I can probably pick up a used engine with less the 100K on on it for around $1500. That would probably be cheaper than trying to overhaul this engine and possibly not even fix the problem. The car has 160K on it rigt now. It's in great shape and I want to keep it because I think it's one of the nicest cars on the road. 850 Turbos are just my favorite cars for some reason and the one I got is the one I want, but I don't like driving it the way it has been running lately.

Wife wasn't too happy when she had to drive it while I was working on the V70. She loves the stereo in the R though.

Just looking to see what others think?

 

RATS. I was going to say give it to me for X-mas!!!!

Just Kidding.

I wish I was there or closer so I could look at it.

I would almost say something in the Headwork as well.

If you can find an R engine for $1500.00 then I would say Jump on it and then tear the other one down and find out once and for all what is wrong.

If the wet down was 60 and the dry was 60 then I would really say the head.

 

Depends on how long you planning to keep the 850R. For example, say you plan to keep it for a few years (2 years or less) I'll probably dump a used motor in it. If you plan to keeping it for a little longer, spend the money and rebuilt it. How much does it cost to rebuild the motor? If the problems is with the head and you're planning to just fix the head, why not spend a little more and have a fresh motor?

I'm new to the volvo scene, so I'm not sure if the 850R and T-5 motors are the same, as far as, the technical specifications. I just recently pick up a 850R with 110k miles on it for $5600... is that too much?

 

Hello Mr. JimKW,

Sorry to hear the problem, it must be irritating.

I agree with Mr. Tech that if you can find another engine for $1500, it might be better to get one than to keep the current one. However, if I were driving your car, I really would like to know what's causing the problem.

You probably have checked the following items, but in case if there's something that was overlooked, here are some examples. I apologize in advance that I could not find your previous posts:

1. Spark plug at #1 cyl.
2. Plug wire at #1 cyl.
3. Distributor cap tang for #1 cyl.
4. Valve seat & valve fit for #1 cyl.
5. Piston rings for #1 cyl.
6. Fuel injector for #1 cyl (possibly clogged by a tiny foreign object/loose electrical connector?)
7. Faulty ECU.

As Mr. Tech noted, I too wish I could take a look at it. It would be educational for me.

I'll wait for your findings.

Regards,


JPN

 

Swapped fuel injector from #1 to #5 sitll misfired on #1. Did the same with the plugs. Cap and rotor are brand new. Had a machine shop redo the head and replaced the bad valve in #1. When it ran bad, I took it off and took it back to them, and everything checked out fine. One thing my son inlaw and I did notice is that #1 piston did have some movement when we had the head off. When it's running good and not misfiring I get a compression of around 120 on #1 and 150 - 165 on other 4 cylinders.

I am under the impression that T5 motors and R motors are the same. Is that not the case? I know they are both 2.3 with high pressure turbos.

 

Hello again Mr. JimKW,

I just went through all your previous posts. I'm sorry that you had to work on the head many times. However, I don't think all the time & money spent have been wasted.In a situation like this, I consider it as a tuition for personal education & training.

Anyway, of the following 3 requirements for an engine:

1. Good Compression.
2. Good Spark.
3. Good Fuel Supply.

The ignition is good, fuel supply is good, so as you & Mr. Tech have had many discussions already, it is probably (or definitely) compression trouble. I wonder how severe the overheating was, was it bad enough to warp the mating surface between the head & block? I know you'd hate to take the head off again and buy new bolts & gasket, but this can be checked with straight edge & feeler gauge, butyou probably know the procedure so I won't get into details. Or it could be valve & valve seatnot sealing right, or valve train mechanism (cam shaft, hydro lash adjuster, etc...) was damaged when the valves were damaged. Or could be the piston rings as I mentioned earlier, or the cylinder liner damage due to overheating? This is driving me crazy too!

After all the hard work you went through, aused/rebuilt engine seem better alternative, but my concern is the condition of the other engine. It may be good, but it may also have suffered something similar tothe current engine. As a last resort, I wonder ifyou can swap the ECU to see if it's having problem controlling cyl #1.

I'm sorry that I couldn't help you in this case.For now this is the best I can do with my tired head (had to work 12 straight days).When I get some time, I'll do a bit more research, as it'll help me & other people as well.

Best wishes and please keep us updated.

Regards,


JPN

 

Found an engine out of an 87 R for $1670.00. I'm waiting til warm weather though. My son in law hates it when I start doing major work on the car on a fairly warm day, then all of a sudden it's below freezing. The kerosene heater doesn't do much when it's in the 20's around here. Everybody keep an eye out for a good price on an engine and let me know if you find one.

Do I have to get an engine for an 850 with a '58' VIN or is the '57' VIN the same engine?

 

According to my cheater book the 57,58,59 are all B5234T engines which I would say would all be the same.

Then you can tear down the old engine and find out what was wrong and fix it then have a spare engine for the R or the V70.

I forget but when they did the Head work did they replace the Valve Guides?

 

I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

 

Some machine shops try to.
But you cannot buy the parts from Volvo.
And ever time a machine shop tried doing it for use they screwed up the head.

 

I know all the parts they used were bought from Volvo becuase the couldn't believe I was paying as much as I did for the valves. I told them I wanted all Volvo parts though.

 

If you end up putting the motor in and pulling down the old engine then we will be able to figure out from there.

 

My opinion...

Since there is very little difference between wet and dry compression readings, my tendency would be be to place blame on valve train in the cylinder head.

Since you have random drastic changes in compression readings (120 one day and 60 the next) -- I find it difficult to believe that a piston ring could slip in and out of place like that -- Still, I would place blame on valve train in the cylinder head.

Yes, the VIN 57 and 58 engines are identical. The only difference is in programming of ECU.

Rather than purchasing a used engine -- Have you considered purchasing a new cylinder head?

The machine shop should have checked your old cylinder head for flatness -- Hmmm, I wonder whether the block is still flat as JPN mentioned?

Something to dream about at night...
http://rkforum.boardsxp.com/topic.7.html
http://www.rkautotechnik.com/

 

I thought of just buy a new head, but that means buying the cam cover and head together and I keep think about the fact that cylinder #1 definitely had more movementthan the other cylinders when the head was off. PlusI think I can buy a whole engine for less than just buying a rebuilt head. Not sure where you would buy a NEW head.

I couldn't getall the picture from the link you provided. I'm on dialup here at home and it takes forever. From the pictures I did get though, it looks like thatguy was doing one heck of a job. Not sure I have theequipment, space or time dothe job. My son inlaw would rather do it at his place, if we ever really get around to doing it.

 

There is a guy in Southern Cal that rebuilds 850/S70 engines with performance parts for something like $4,000 USD. I wasn't serious about having him rebuild your engine. Still, I thought that you might be interested in learning what parts he puts in his engines. His e-mail address is
doug@rkautotechnik.com

More photos here...
http://www.pbase.com/dkauer744/b5234ft_build

 

I'm just curious what the status is of your car? Did you get a new/used engine?

 

I know this is a jinx, but it's been running just great for about three weeks. I just don't get it!

 

*knocks on wood for you
[align=left] [/align]

 

Knocks on head!!!
I know how it is Jim.
My Cutlass just started leaking gas from RUSTED FUEL LINE!!!

 

Hi Mr. JimKW,

Since you & Mr. Tech have gone through a number of discussions & logical trials, I don't think I can be of much help. I'll just provide my crazy assumptions here:

IGNITION SYSTEM:
1) Somewhere in the ignition system, there may be something that is playing tricks. A connection that seems & feels ok but may be dropping voltage, leaking current to ground, in such case:

a. Dirty spark plug threads preventing conductivity, or spark plug(s) internally damaged.
b. One or two ignition wire(s) internally damaged (manufacturing defect).
c.Ignition wiretangs inside theboots bent, not seating properly onto the plugs/distributor cap.
d. Distributor rotor somehowdeveloped wider gap to cyl #1 than others.
e. Ignition module internally failing, not generating codes but failing to fire cyl #1.
f. Your neighbor is jealous of your machines, so decided to swap ignition components at 3 in the morning[8D].

FUEL SYSTEM:
a. EEC module internally defective, not generating codes but having difficulty opening/closing injector for cyl #1.
b. Your neighbor is jealous of your machines, so pouring mysterious substance into the fuel tank, at 3 in the morning (Absolut Vodka?)[8D].

COMPRESSION:
The most likely culprit, judging from you & Mr. Tech's discussions.
a. Valve & valve guide clearance wide, but somehow sludge gets in between, allowing the engine to run fine sometimes.
b. Valve & valve seat not seating properly, but somehow soft foreign object got stuck in between, creating a temporary seal, allowing to run the engine fine from time to time.
c. Only thepiston #1 had play, so, somehow the piston rings are worn but decide to seal fine from time to time for unknown reason, or the rings got stuck onto the piston, where all ring gaps are aligned, allowing combustion gas to escape, but finally they got dislodged and decided to work normally for good.
d. A localized torn in the head gasket, allowing interference from cyl #2.
e. Your neighbor got jealous and .....at 3 in the morning.....[8D]

I'm sorry Mr. JimKW, this case is beyond my ability....


JPN