Today has been a horrible day. I'm in a real pickle now without realizing what was going on. I have a volvo C30, T5, manual, 2012.

Last night, after about two hours of highway driving, I noticed a sound coming from the hood area. Wasn't sure what it was. No warning signals were lit. No information displayed by the computer. Then a few minutes later, as I was a about 5 minutes from home, it turned into a very bad "clacking" kind of sound. Not good. But still, there were no lights, etc. I drove home, opened the hood, and heard that the noise was coming from the engine.

This morning, I *stupidly* drove the car to my volvo dealer (Uptown Volvo - Montreal - where I have leased the car from) to tell me what was going on. I got a call in the afternoon from the Service advisor (kid). He asks if I had a collision (none that I am aware of) because it's a cracked oil pan and it'll be $2k to repair it and I'd better call my insurance company. Worse, he tells me that I may have killed my engine, that they can't know for sure until they fix the oil pan, and that a new engine would be (get this!) $20k! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I said to him that's crazy because the oil pressure light never came on! He knows this is true because when I brought it there and started it up with him listening for the noise, he saw that the oil pressure light still wasn't on! I asked him about, he says he doesn't understand why it didn't come on. Had I thought it was an oil problem, I would have had it towed immediately. I'm so PO'd that I might have killed my engine because of a oil pressure switch that for some reason did not go on!

The sound: When in neutral, there was no clacking sound. When in reverse, also no sound. But as soon as the RPMs reached a certain level, while pressing the accelerator, the clacking would start. In 2 or 3rd gear, when not pushing giving it gas, there was no sound.

So...what the heck do I do? Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Because after searching around a bit, I think the insurance company will cover the oil pan - but not any damage to the engine. The adjuster is supposed to call me on Monday.

Is my engine really toast? If so, with a leased car, what can I do about it? Can I try to get a discount or something from Volvo or take legal action against them for the oil pressure light not going on?

Does the on board computer record any oil pressure drops, i.e. can I get a printout or something else that would prove the oil pressure light never went on (just in case I end up in court)?

Thank you.

 

ask him to show you the cracked pan. did you see any oil residue on the floor when you parked your car? checked under your oil pan oil leaks? strange the knocking sound comes on when in drive. l am very certain that your engine is not toast. if it was toast it wouldnt have even driven you to the dealer in the first place. your dash board light would have light up with check engine light on. its a modern car and that would definitely trigger the check engine light if the oil pan was leaking oil. could be something else.

 

try creating this thread in the 850 SECTION. you will get more responds

 

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Strange that the warning light did not come on. But really it depends on if the car still had oil. If ALL of the oil leaked out the light should have come on. If only, say 1/2 of the oil leaked out you may still have had oil pressure so it would not come on. Most cars do NOT have oil level lights, just low pressure lights.

If you hit something in the road and the insurance company will pay for the pan, they should pay for all damage that resulted from the incident. The dealer should be able to tell if the motor is toast when they put the new pan on. All they have to do is a compression test. The thing about loosing oil is, driving a car with no oil is likely the same as driving a car tens of thousands of miles. Let's say that all the oil drained out... driving the car 5 miles with no oil might be the same as driving 300,000 miles with oil.

A lot of oil in the pan is sump oil. My guess is that maybe 1/2 of the oil in the pan remains there while the car is running. I have not tried checking mine while it running but it may be even more sum than that. What I mean by that is, let's say the system holds 6 quarts like mine, just maybe my car has to be 4 quarts low before it stops picking up oil from the pan. Oil drains back down to the pan so the faster the engine turns, the less oil that is likely in the pan at any given time. I changed the oil on a S70 a month or so ago and the car was 3-1/2 quarts low (out of 6-1/2 quarts). A month later it appears that no damage was done to the car. I did not do a compression test.

 

what he said^^. if your pan had actually cracked, all the oil would have drained triggering the low pressure light. you could not have been able to drive your car all the way to the dealer for diagnose.

 

Not true.

Without oil, the connecting rod bearings start to wear, and start to wear quickly. When they wear too much, play develops between the rod and the crankshaft. Then they start to clack and knock, but the car will still run. Very good possibility this is what happened, I have seen this multiple times. I did an engine for this three weeks ago and have another coming in next week. Both covered by insurance.

Also, it would not trigger a check engine light.

A compression test is worthless in this situation. It will not show worn piston rod rings, which is what usually happens.

They should be able to tell when the pan is removed. Usually you see a lot of metal flakes coming from the rod bearings.

If so, you can replace the pan and hope it doesn't make noise. Even if it doesn't make noise, damage was done and those bearings will wear out much sooner than they would have otherwise. You can also replace the bearings. Hopefully significant damage to the rest of the engine hasn't occurred.

 

@ES6T, there should be visible leak right? the dealer told him the pan was cracked. SVG1234, ask for visible cracks on the oil pan. it isnt possible for your engine to consume oil like that. also did you check if oil was still in the engine with the engine running?

 

Thanks for all the replies.

1) Since this (the oil pan repair at least) is going to go through my insurance company, I really doubt that the dealer would be lying about the cracked oil pan. The adjuster will go to the dealer and inspect the damage before approving the repair. These guys make their money by charging insanely high prices on all service - I doubt they'd make something up in this type of situation (insurance claim) - or am I missing something?

2) I will only know AFTER they fix the oil pan if the engine was damaged or not, and then if it is, I will only know at that point if the insurance company will pay for it. So I will be waiting a week or probably longer until I know. My guess is that the engine is toast. I had no warning whatsoever and by the time I heard the clacking sound - my first indication that anything was wrong - it was likely too late. Damn!

3) I park on the street only, in a very busy area where there are usually parked cars in front of and behind me, i.e. it's unlikely that I would have seen any oil spilled even if it was still coming out when/where I was parked. I never saw any oil spilled. Never smelled any burnt oil.

4) I'm trying to pinpoint WHEN it happened. Is it possible I had a small leak from a cracked oil pan that happened (for example) five days earlier and yet was still able to drive the car for two hundred km before the engine got damaged and made noise? From what I have read, this isn't possible. Is it safe to conclude that it happened not long before I heard the clacking noise?

5) Why didn't the &^%$#! engine pressure warning light go on? It's the only reason that there is likely serious engine damage or my engine is toast. By the time I realized something was wrong - the loud clacking sound - it was too late! It's infuriating because had I seen the light or a warning, I would have pulled over immediately and called roadside assistance for a tow. I don't know if volvo can be held responsible, but this is nuts.

6) I parked the car overnight and then drove it to the dealer on Friday morning (about ten minutes away). I also drove it for about fifteen minutes the night before *after* I first heard that clacking horrible sound (just to get home). How is it possible that there would be ANY oil left, i.e. enough for the engine to work at all, if it had been sitting with a crack in the oil pan overnight? Wouldn't all the oil have drained and the engine not worked the next morning?

7) Even if I sue the insurance company and/or volvo, in the meantime, I will have to pay for the engine repair or replacement myself. What will a used C30 engine cost me? How much for labour? (Keep in mind I'm in Montreal, Quebec, i.e. higher Canadian prices). If i have to pay for it myself, there is NO WAY that I will get a new one or do it through the volvo dealer.

8) I'm not that concerned about wear and tear on the engine, if as some of you wrote, that the engine "aged" a lot in that short period of time but can still work, because I drive VERY few km per year (under 5,0000 km per year), and I only have 2 years left on the lease. In other words, as long as the engine can last about 10,000 KM, which is all I will drive before I return it on the lease end and it's no longer my responsibility - that's fine with me. My guess is that the engine is toast. The big question is: will the insurance company cover the engine too? I think they will try to say it's my fault because I drove it without oil.

9)HOW CAN I PROVE THE OIL PRESSURE WARNING LIGHT DIDN'T GO ON? Would the car's computer contain entries for that sensor's warnings or something similar? If so, I need a dump of its "log". This is the kind of proof I will need to sue/pressure Volvo. Otherwise, it's just my word.

 

Always a car guy.....I have never heard of a cracked oil-pan....damaged by hitting something perhaps....stripping drain-plug or not tightening plug, maybe.......something is fishy.

 

thats what l was saying. let just say all the oil drained with a cracked oil pan, the oil light should have been triggered. if it didnt trigger volvo should be responsible for that. just saying. u need proof of the oil pan leak. l dont believe any dealer but myself.

 

Yes, there should be a visible leak.

I have no idea why the low oil pressure light did not come on. There will be no "log" of KT though, even if it had come on. The only way to prove it is to start the car with no oil and show them it isn't on.

I have seen dozens of cracked oil pans on the P1 cars. Most of the time, it is a large crack or even a hole. But I have had some with a hairline crack. I have a customer that declined replacement and has been driving for about a year with it because it just seeps oil. I told him that's fine as long as he monitors the oil level and so far, it hasn't gotten any worse.

 

you've seen dozens of cracked pans due to the driver hitting something? or are you saying there is some sort of defect in the manufacture?

 

No, not a defect. There is always signs of impact on the splash pan or sometimes the A/C compressor.

 

So what you're saying is that its difficult to know the approximate time/date that this happened because it's possible it was a tiny crack and a slow leak over a period of days or even weeks? Still, the oil pressure light should have gone off once the pressure dropped below a certain point.

About 7 days before this happened, after I had started the car and drove about 1 block, I noticed that the oil pressure light FLICKERED for about 1 second. But it went off immediately, so I thought nothing of it, because that kind of stuff happens from time to time in cars. It happened 2 or 3 times that week, but ONLY for a second. It did *NOT* stay on nor did it continue flickering while I was driving it. The last time it happened was about 3 days before the "clacking" event on the Thursday night. In hindsight, I wish that I had checked the oil after that flash, but I just said to myself that it was probably an electrical thing. If the light either continued going on and off while driving it OR had stayed on, then of course I would have brought it to the dealer immediately. But a 1 second flicker? Just didn't register. Unfortunately, I told the service guy, and that might come back to bite me even though it shouldn't. The light is supposed to go ON and STAY on - not flicker for 1 second a week before it's out of oil!

I need a way to PROVE the oil pressure light did not come on. The service rep (kid) knows that it wasn't on but I don't know if he'll testify to that or not. Do you think the mechanic(s) when they first inspected it made a note of the oil pressure light not being on? I need something official just in case it goes to court. I could go to the dealer today (they are closed), use my other key, start the car, and take a video. Good idea?

 

Well, I went back to the dealer today (they are closed on the weekend - only in Quebec). Took my smartphone. Got into my car w/ the spare key. Turned it on. The oil pressure light STILL did not go on. Took a video of the whole thing. I hope it doesn't go that far (court), but if it does, at least i have some "evidence" to support what happened.

Hopefully the insurance company will pay for any damage/replacement of the engine. They really should. I didn't do anything negligent. It was just one of those things.

 

The video might not prove anything, they may have added oil to move the car around (if the crack is a small crack and not a hole in the pan).

Did they say whether it was a small crack or an actual hole?

And the last engine I did for a cracked pan, the driver hit something, the oil light came on and they admitted to driving it until it locked up. Insurance covered it. All insurance is different though.

 

1) re: the video, I thought of the same thing, but I don't think that's what happened. The dealer's service rep just called because I am moving the car to the insurance company's preferred body shop (i.e. they lost the repair sale). He told me they put oil in the engine and that the noise was still present, i.e. my engine is toast. When I asked him WHEN they did the test, he said "this morning". So it's highly unlikely that they put oil in it on Friday too. If they put in a little bit of oil to move it (which I doubt - that's likely too clever for these guys), it would probably have drained by Sunday evening, or even if it's a tiny crack as per your theory and it wouldn't have drained, surely the pressure would be LOW and the light would go on. It's not like they would fill it with many litres of oil just to move it 50 feet into the service bay! At the very least, my video could/would be taken into consideration. I'll sign an affadavit. Also, I have an unrelated witness (my female friend was in the car for the entire drive (app. 2 hours) and also when the noise started). On Friday he told me they wouldn't touch it until hearing from the insurance company adjuster, yet as soon as they hear from the other body shop that its going to, magically or coincidentally (yeah right) they just happened to block the hole, put oil in, and test it this morning and then called me? Very strange.

2) He told me that if the insurance company did pay for the repair done at the other shop, they would put in a used engine instead of a new one. I'm not sure if that was a scare tactic to try and get me to have it done there or if he was right. The insurance company guy said that sometimes the engine isn't covered if it's deemed to be UNRELATED to the collision. Not sure what they mean by "unrelated". I told him about the oil pressure light not going on. He was preparing me for the possibility that it might not be covered, but said it usually IS covered. So I'll only know once they do their inspection and "verification" as he called it. If they DO cover it, I'm not sure if I can force them to put in a NEW engine? Seems to me they would have to put in a new one or one with similar km. Good luck with that. I only had 6,000 km on it. lol. Either way, if I put in a used engine, I will probably be forced to buy the car at the end of the lease because I doubt volvo will accept it back w/ a used engine. I'd have to consult a lawyer to see if Scotiabank would have to accept it.

3) The phrase he used was "crack in the oil pan". Not sure what that means. I didn't see it.

Really not sure what is going to happen, but it doesn't look good. All because that damn light didn't go on like it was supposed to! I had no way of knowing. It really doesn't matter if I drove it for another 10 or 15 minutes after hearing the noise because once I heard the clacking noise, the engine damage was done, right? The noise didn't get worse after that. I had no ADVANCE warning. Aside from the oil pressure red light - isn't the on board computer supposed to monitor stuff like that? No info or warning at all.

 

Who knows when they put the oil in. A lot of times, the service advisor is pretty clueless. Without knowing how big the crack is, there's really no way to know if adding oil will even help.

As for the new vs. used, that's up to the insurance. I have seen both.

I really don't know why the light didn't come on. If the noise was worn rod bearings then yes, the damage was done.

The oil pressure light is the only thing that monitors oil pressure. There is no log of the info from that switch because it is basically just a simple switch.

The CVVT system runs on oil pressure and if the oil is low, it can cause a check engine light. However, before that happens, the ECM needs to see the fault a certain number of times (not sure how many).

 

First of all, thanks for all your help. Very much appreciated!

Is it possible that it would make sense (financially and wear 'n' tear) to repair the damage rather than replace the engine?

With your experience, you could probably figure out what the noise is based on the info I can give you and you asking me some questions.

The noise: When you just start the engine, the noise is not present. As you increase RPMs, that's when it starts. But only when you hit a certain level, let's say 3,000+, does it begin to get louder and "shudder". I describe it as a "clacking" sound.

Hmm...perhaps I can upload the video somewhere (it's about 90MB - maybe youtube?)) for you to have a listen? At the end of the video, as I am pressing the accelerator and getting the RPMs up just a bit to prove the car is on, if you turn up the volume high, you can hear the engine noise (even though I'm shooting the video from the driver's seat). I'll see if I can do it and post a link.

 

At about 1:23 you'll hear. Unfortunately, I'm talking over it, and it's only for a couple of seconds, so you don't hear it well. But if you turn the volume way up, it'll give you an idea of the kind of sound it is. At 52 seconds, when I start the engine, you can hear a bit of the sound too (for a second).

p.s. The reason I'm so out of breath is because I had just scaled a high fence, and fell a bit over the other side, in order to get onto the dealer's service lot since it's closed on the weekend.