I'm paid by booked hours, not worked hours. If I am at work 8 hours and only two cars come in totalling 5 hours, I get 5 hours. I may do 2 hours of actual work.

Sounds like you are proposing a labor time guide. Which already exists. You are also trying to propose this without an understanding of how it works.

Two techs make $30 an hour. JobA1.5 pays $45. JobB1.5 pays $45.
Both techs will try to beat that time. Just like it is now.

Or you can pay techs by skill. What differentiates the skill level? ASE certifications? Those are meaningless. What is the pay difference? I would rather make $27 an hour and do brakes and suspension all day than make $30 an hour and do network diagnostics, squeaks and rattles all day.

Also consider that not all 1.5 hour jobs take 10 minutes. Not all control arms on your car take 10 minutes. Sometimes the front bolt seizes. Now I need to get the torch and/or sawzall to get it out. I still get 1.4 for both arms.

The system is already a job oriented system. The job of replacing the control arms on your car pays 1.4 hours. The job of replacing control arms on a P2 XC90 pays 2 hours. The job of replacing control arms on a different car will pay accordingly. Difficulty is accounted for.

 

I am taking the ASE test to the next level: simulator test. The simulator will simulate real car trouble and test how accurate a tech can pinpoint the problem. This will differentiate their skill levels. The database of the simulator will keep updating on a daily bases with new cars and new problems. Most states will require this test once a year. Those who can diagnose problems will get paid more than those who can only fix problems, just like those who design this simulator will get paid the most...

 

So this would be state run? And based on what? All cars?

I work at a Volvo dealer. I can diagnose a Volvo faster than someone who works in Jaguars. And they can diagnose Jaguars faster than I can.

Manufacturers have their own diagnostic equipment.

So then break it down by brand? What about indy shops that service multiple brands?

What would it be diagnosing? Network problems? Brake problems? Suspension noises?

Give up man. Your fantasy world is not going to happen and is not practical when a labor time guide exists to determine what a job pays and works just fine.

 

New laws will require all car makers provide diagnostic equipment to all repair shops if required. Just like no car maker can use any specially designed bolt that no existing tools can hold on it...

People labor all day usually don't have time to think about this...

 

Volvo can provide VIDA to an independent shop that services Chevy and Ford. How long is it going to take a Ford tech to figure out how to work VIDA to diagnose the car?

New diagnostic simulators and new laws just because you don't want to pay a shop 1.4 hours to replace your control arms. You are really grasping at straws for whatever argument you think you have.

Laws already require cars be OBDII compliant. And manufacturers are already required to make their proprietary equipment available to independent shops. Provide it for free? I don't think so. Why would a manufacturer, who sells and services their cars, give out their diagnostic equipment that they engineered to independent shops so they can service them?


I think this is over. Just the fact you are bringing up such ridiculous ideas shows you do not know enough about the subject to be realistic. I can sit and poke holes in your fantasy world all day. Good luck with your control arms (or finding a shop to replace them for a half hour labor)

 

New laws will also require car makers to pay retraining cost of all their laid-off workers because their skills are useless to other car makers according to a Volvo worker.

The laws will also require car makers to buy back all the tools people use on their cars if they go bankrupt because those tools are useless to other cars, also according to a Volvo worker.

This should be over long time ago...

 

Did I say anything about laid off workers? No.
Did I say anything about my skills being useless to other car makers? No.

But if I had to be tested by the state in your make believe world in a make believe simulator on how to fix a car I am not familiar with because I do not work on them, then I would do far worse than someone who does.

And yes, OEM diagnostic equipment is useless on other cars. I can't pull a BMW in and plug it into VIDA to diagnose it.

So go ahead and revolutionize the industry with your new laws and new labor system. All by a guy who has no working knowledge of any of it.
Keep grasping.

 

So there is nothing special about Volvo after all: all knowledge and skills can be transferred therefore tested.

Case closed.

 

Says the guy with no knowledge and skills in any of this, but insists on continually arguing about it.

Common problems on one car are not the same as the next car.

Remember when you wanted to replace your cam position sensors based on there being fault codes for them, even though I told you it wasn't going to be your problem? Some cars may have problems with cam position sensors, so a technician familiar with those cars would know that if a car comes in with cam position sensor codes, it likely needs a cam position sensor. So if that person gets in your make believe simulator and gets a Volvo, they might make the same mistake whereas I won't. Does that mean that person is a bad technician on whatever make they specialize in? Not at all. If I got the same test, I would do really well. Does that mean I would do as well if it was a different car with different common problems? Not at all.

You also totally ignored the fact that OEM diagnostic equipment takes time to learn. But I suppose your argument will be "techs will memorize every manufacturer's diagnostic equipment and be able to use it 100% efficiently"

Your argument is down to imaginary simulators and law changes, making it impossible for anyone to have a conversation with you since your answers are nothing more than "Because it will", much like a child. You continue to ignore facts, just like the last time we had a similarly embarrassing debate. It's okay to admit you did not know how shops worked and how techs are paid- a lot of people have no idea. Or you can keep embarrassing yourself with your make believe world.

You are obviously the type of person who needs to get the last word in to feel good, so just like last time- go for it. I'm sure it will totally ignore the factual information I have continually brought up that goes against anything in your make believe world.

 

Diagnostic equipment is just a source of information and is not the triage and decision process itself. Example - pull a vacuum line off ANY car and tell me if any of the cars will spit a code that says "vacuum leak". No, they will say something about the mixture being off or an O2 sensor being out of range etc. Its the tech who by model knows the typical fault areas related to what often can be a happy meal of OBD2 codes. Cars will never have the same designs, the same software and even with standardization of diagnostic equipment, will not all have identical diagnosis. Take that lean condition from your vacuum leak.... All the code tells you is which decision tree to start down... could be an air leak, could be fuel pressure, could be a dirty MAF, could be an O2 sensor ... Car problem areas have a probability distribution curve unique to the make/model/year - a skilled independent tech can cover the 80% with confidence which works fine for diagnosing most issues but then may not know the best procedure for the repair. A factory trained tech has the advantage of learning the repair procedures unique to that vehicle so they move the bar up to 90% confidence. A seasoned dealer tech who sees the same models 100X more frequently move the repair confidence up another level say to 98% confidence. That doesn't say dealer techs don't get stumped - but those are the "rare disease" category. This whole problem space is very similar to the healthcare space. "new laws" and other mandates can establish some baselines but at the end of the day, you have a choice of which kind of doctor to go to. Your family practice physician can diagnose the most common ailments but will always refer you to a specialist when needed. Why go to a specialist? Because of the extra training and the value of experience. Doesn't matter about the diagnosis or even access to special tools. If you need to get a metal shard out of your eye - would you trust your family doctor or go to an eye doctor trained in surgery?

 

Finally I had a chance to replace both front control arms and both struts. The only thing special about this project is actually something very simple: specified torque values. You have to follow those closely, otherwise the front end will make popping sound when you accelerate or brake suddenly (my personal experience).

The torque for the front mounting (18mm one) is 175NM (very high);
and the two rear mounting ones (15mm) is 60NM then 90 degree tighten/rotate.

I also have alignment done and all tires replaced. Now it drives like new!

 

BTW, I also replaced the front brake pads and found something else interesting:

I went to AutoZone and asked for brake pads. After I gave them the model and year, I was told there are two different kinds: one with a wire for detecting wear and one doesn't. Since I know mine doesn't have it, I asked for the one without wire. But when I checked it, I know it's still not the one on my car! Because the one on my car has that spring clip on both sides, one side goes into the piston and the other side into a hole on the caliper. But the one from store has clip only on one side (piston side). Since I don't have other option, I just bought this one and installed them. Looks like they work OK.

But still three different kind of brake pads on a single model year? Volvo engineers really know what they are doing, don't they? :-)

Now I know why they have to have strong gun control in those countries... :-)

 

how can you question Volvo's engineering when it comes to your choice of after market brake pads? Sure there are going to be different braking systems within a model (say when you have a standard and sport version of the same car) or a parts change over when a model goes to a new design mid year (typically after the factory supply runs out of the old) but most car manufacturers buy braking systems from the same set of vendors. The wire in the pad has nothing to do with the braking system - its simply there to make a scraping noise when the pads wear past their limit (idea is to get you to look at the brake pads before the rivets show the rotor who's boss). My suggestion would be to not buy your brake pads at AutoZone and go source Genuine Volvo pads from a fairly priced web site such as Tascaparts.com, FCPEuro.com or eeuroparts.com. Just shopping on their sites is a great way to find the correct part number and compatibility info.

 

Volvo has nothing to do with the brakes you buy at Autozone. Pretty sure there is only one option for your car from Volvo.

Be sure to complain to Volvo when your Autozone brakes squeak too. Hope you didn't get the cheap ones.

 

Whyvolvo. found the same critical torque specs when I replaced everything front and rear of my 98, because of the 10yr age, not malfunctioning. My Volvo has the most innovative simple brake pad replacement, for my 4 wheel discs, than any of 250 different vehicles I have puttered with in the last 55 yrs!
Love Volvo's engineering. Copper brake grease on back of pads will ensure no chatter or squeal, if correct pads are used. None metallic pads will create a lot of front brake dust. Semi-metallic best 4 me. I have brake dust covers on my hubs so my wheels don't get covered in dust. 55k and biggest problem, drivers door window regulator. Good routine maintenance, follow milage and age replacement recommendations, all is well. Hope ur ride is fun now!

 

If I make my own car and have the freedom to pick my own brakes, I may choose Brembo complete carbon ceramic ones and Volvo brand will never cross my mind because I know they don't make brakes! :-)

The point is just like all other manufacturers, car makers can't afford to put all best parts in their products and most of the time, you will find better parts than OEM. And just because something has a brand stamped on it, doesn't necessarily makes it better than the same ones with a different brand.

In US, if you have to change the design of your product that is already in production 3 times a year, you will be shot! :-)

 

I C ur garage is empty. Maybe U could get a pic of UR car seat?

 

There's no need to make your own car to upgrade your brakes, just Internet access. You can certainly find products from performance part providers (Stoptech comes to mind) where you can replace your calipers/hoses/rotors/pads to upgrade the factory specs. Most car designs are balanced between performance, longevity, reliability and production costs. Its not uncommon for part hawks to put Porsche brakes on an VW etc. You just need to consider the trade offs. For example, true ceramic brakes have low dust (and a different color) and excellent fade resistance but are less effective when wet or cold (imagine the law suits against a "safety" brand company like Volvo if the OEM brakes needed warming on wet days).

 

You forgot the most important word: profit margin. I hope Internet access can help.

 

Heaven forbid a car company should try to be profitable! I can't wait for your pertectly engineered car with all parts that can be removed in 3 minutes with simple hand tools (even though they will never need to be removed because they will never wear out or fail) to be released. All for no profit, too!