First POST!!! Concluded, this is an awesome volvo community!!!
The story is rather long please tag along if you wish to hear my experience with Volvo and Corruption within the Company and its distributors, I would really need some help and guidance. I would be even willing to reward a person that suggests something that would solve my problem...
Basically, driving the car on an interstate, all of the sudden it bucks down and shuts off...Pulled to the side of the road, tried to restart it, it would just crank endlessly with no sing of a start. Everything would work (light, power, etc.). However, it did have a "Service Air Bags" and after some cranking it started throwing the whole "Immobilizer" read outs...Therefore, I towed it home. I naturally though something is up with the compression in the combustion chambers (valves/pistons) due to the fact that the timing belt was recently changed. The car has 90k miles. So I took out the spark plugs and dumped a tea spoon of oil into each cylinder, tried to start it, it 'puffed' for a split second and shut off. Naturally, I went out and picked up a compression gauge and funny enough the compression was spot on so was the timing. I also checked the fuel pressure, which it had 0, I though I found my problem, I replaced the fuel pump relay and nothing, the pump is silent, however, when I jumped the connection to the fuel pump with a paper clip, there was decent fuel pressure... So from there I though that it has to be something electronic. I replaced the "antenna key ring right away" no help... Unfortunately, I only have one key so wasn't sure if that was the issue. So I've decided to take it to the Borton Volvo Dealership in Minneapolis, MN to have them diagnose the problem. (BIG MISTAKE!!!) So a nice sales person there takes my car and assures me he will take care of it... Two days go by, he calls me and says the problem is in the "CEM" (central electrical module). I asked him whether I could bring a used computer for them to put it in, funny enough he says yes...I felt relieved and found a computer, ripped it out with the whole harness and brought it to him...letter that day he calls me and says that the computers are not interchangeable from another car (it has to be specifically programmed..). That was a first sing that something is wrong with the dealership, since they do not know the information right away...Moreover, the sales rep tells me the problem lays in the CEM computer, tells me it will be $1100 to replace it. My stupidity won and I agreed, thinking I will get my baby back...Well they replaced it, sure enough, it started, idling little bit rough...Moreover, I asked him to pull into the dealership to fill up my tires with air, they were a bit flat... He replied "sure"...I pulled in and shut the engine off...Filled the tires and guess what...I try to restart the car upon thanking him endlessly and same problem, cranks-cranks and wont start and the sales person say "why did you shut the car off" WOW really, then I should drive without shutting off my cars..ever? Wake up in the middle of a night to refuel so it doesn't die by the morning lol what a joke...I check the valve on the fuel rail and there is no fuel.. they take the car back...He calls me the next day to inform me that the car mysteriously started upon me leaving the dealership that day...Well great news, however, does the problem persists is my question? He replied with confidence, we test drove it, everything is in working order...Okay, I come pick it up, literally, drove a block away to fill it up, the car restarted just fine with no hesitation, whatsoever, but 10 blocks down the road, I take a right turn and the thin just shuts off...I then called the dealer and told him to come pick it up, its broken! He (the sales person) calls me two days down the road saying; "we spent 21 hours of man labor, and we cannot fix your car, come pick it up" Now that left me speechless. Their conclusion was "something is not talking to the fuel pump". According to the dealer they traced the wiring and found nothing (they also replaced fuel pump module to test...). After being frustrated with them, I demanded to refund my money, which they declined, saying "the problem was the CEM, declining the refund" I simply towed it to another local mechanic that specializes in volvos bmw mercedeses. He though it was the crank position sensor, however, after replacing it, the problem persists... Now the car is back on my driveway with the same conditon and $1900 later. Please help. is there a known issue?

2001 Volvo s60 t5 at 90,xxx miles

Any help will be much appropriated!!! I know cars myself, however, this one just makes me just want to start ripping my hair out...

 

Hi and welcome to VolvoForums.

Sad to say that you guys have hit all of the common spots that I would have thought to be the problem. So, I'm down to thinking you have a short of some kind or a bad ECU. I would unplug every relay and plug them back in, 5 at a time. Hopefully you will find the source of the failure.

 

What you experienced is standard business practice for dealers. I wouldn't call it corruption. They are parts swappers. In fact doing 21 hours of troubleshooting (even if exaggerated), that they didn't get paid for is a disaster for them.

Your car has the defective ETM (Electronic Throttle Module). This is a known problem and could cause the symptoms you describe. I'd investigate that. Also check the basic stuff like battery condition and grounds. Also take a look at the fuel pressure regulator.

 

Thank you very much for the reply, very helpful!!! It crossed my mind once that the ETM can be bad, because it started to make weird clicking noises while trying to start it. The main quick question. Does the ETM has to be programmed? or is it simply plug and play. I would hate to go back to the stealer-ship. Also, the battery is brand new. Which ground wires would you recommend to be checked? Also, I think my car has the older type of a fuel regulator (non electronic) just the one that sits on the fuel rail? is that the one you are referring to?

PS. before they replaced the CEM I took out the fuel rail the jumped the fuel pump, there was a great spray going from every injector as I was cranking it.

Please let me know. I would really like to fix my Volvo, I would hate to scrap it, it is a great car expect for being an automatic...but your help is greatly appreciated

 

Also, is there a way to tell if the ETM is bad?

 

Dohhhh!

Call Xemodex. See my link in comment above.

And use Google. Google knows everything.

 

as migbro stated I would call Xemodex, they repaired my DIM for me and before I sent it off I talked with them and they were able to tell me what was wrong....I sent the DIM to them and had it back in 3 days overnight ship to them 1 day for them to repair it and ship it back overnight to me...great people and very customer oriented!

 

i would post over at Swedespeed Forums - S60 (2001-2010).. There are a few guy that have broken down a complete t5 for a rebuild and they might have come across some of these issues.. Seems like all expected repairs for the symptoms were done.. Gl

 

As a dealer tech, I resent your statement that we are all parts swappers. Sure, there are bad techs (dealer or independent) but the story posted is NOT common practice.

You don't think the dealer could find a bad ETM? This is why I stay away from these forums. You cannot conclusively diagnose a bad ETM over the internet. A bad ETM won't cut fuel pressure.

Good job guessing. The car doesn't have a fuel pressure regulator. So its parts swapper vs. Internet guesswork mechanic now.

To the original poster: call Volvo Customer Care and explain the situation. They will get a FTS involved. You paid good money and the car should be fixed. Sure, the CEM could have been part of the problem. But the dealer shouldn't say they can't fix it. We all get problem cars, there are resources for us to get them fixed.

 

Just saw this comment. LOL.

You can resent all you want but there's a reason dealers are commonly called stealers. The service department is the big moneymaker for many dealers and every customer that comes through the door is another opportunity to sell a whole bunch of parts and labor that weren't needed. The ideal service department customer comes in for an oil change and ends up buying a new engine.

I didn't "conclusively diagnose" a defective ETM though I see what I wrote was slightly ambiguous. I stated that the OP's car came from the factory with an ETM with a design defect (wiper type potentiometers). To the best of my knowledge Volvo's fix for this defect is either a new ETM of the same type or a software bandaid that masks the problem.

If the OP's car has no fuel pressure regulator then that's unlikely to be the problem, I'll agree. However, the OP's VOLVO DEALER has done no better and so far has only succeeded in swapping parts unnecessarily. In my direct and indirect experience this is fairly typical as diagnosis of difficult problems requires skilled and experienced people who are very thin on the ground at the typical dealer.

 

Again, you are casting a large net without knowing what you are talking about.

You mean to tell me that all 2400+ dealer technicians sell parts and labor that are not needed? And independent shops never recommend unnecessary work?

I cannot tell you how many times I have had customers bring their car in because an independent shop recommended work that wasn't needed or messed up their car trying to fix it when they didn't have the proper parts or tools.

I have seen the technicians you are talking about, and I have gotten them fired. Believe it or not, there are honest dealership technicians out there. When I look at a customer's car, I look it over and I have absolutely no problem bringing them back and explaining every single recommendation I make. That is because I don't sell stuff that they don't need.

I see how I misunderstood what you were saying about the ETM. I read it as saying it was the cause of the problem. However, you did say it will cause these symptoms, which it will not.

And yes, I understand the original poster's dealer hasn't done a very good job. And skilled guys are less common, especially if it is a smaller dealer. Some dealerships only have two or three Volvo technicians. Others have 20+. But we all have access to advanced technical help to get it right. Someone might have been too lazy to reach out, and that is unfortunate, because then people on the Internet jump to the conclusion that we are all crooks who cannot diagnose anything, when that is not the case.

I love when a customer comes in and says "I read on the Internet that I have a recall, I want this fixed for free". Well, the Internet was wrong. The recall does not apply to your car and therefore, this is not a free repair. But unfortunately, people will believe anything on the Internet, even when shown the recall history for their specific VIN.

 

We should be so lucky that all dealer techs be like you.

My criticisms weren't levelled specifically at Volvo dealers. I know less about Volvo and Volvo cars than I do about other manufacturers to be honest. Perhaps Volvo has a less dishonest corporate culture than, say, GM, Ford, Chrysler, VW, Honda, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc., etc.

Back in the real world, you can Google search "dealership ruined my car".

 

Trust me, I understand exactly where those things come from. It just frustrates the honest guys who get a bad name because of the dishonest ones.

I know a lot of customers read various things on the internet. And if so, I hope they read this:

Instead of going into the dealership with the "they are going to rip me off" attitude, go and don't be afraid to ask questions. Ask about the recommendations. Why does the work need to be done? Can it wait? What happens if it waits too long? Ask to talk to the technician (not the service writer!) and if possible, be shown what is going on. You'll find out really fast if they are ripping you off. But don't assume we're all ripping you off if you aren't going to let us show and explain what we are recommending.

 

The last time I took any vehicle of mine to a dealer for anything other than a recall was about ten years ago. Though I'm a mechanical engineer I was extremely busy at the time and took my Dodge pickup to a local Dodge dealer for some routine service. I received a call from the service manager who told me the serpentine belt was worn and cracked and the throttle body needed cleaning. I told him to leave the serpentine belt alone (it was brand new, I had just installed a Gatorback belt) but go ahead and clean the throttle body.

After I paid my bill which included a $105 line item for throttle body cleaning I walked to my truck and popped the hood. The throttle body was untouched, dirty and with no wrench marks on any fasteners. I walked back to the service department and asked the service manager to walk over to my truck. I showed him the throttle body and asked him why it hadn't been touched. He explained that they had cleaned it by squirting carb cleaner on the throttle plate. I asked him why I had been charged $105 for this. He answered that "that is what the book says." I told him he was ripping me off. He laughed in my face and told me to take it up with the owner of the dealership.

Whatever your personal ethics may be, and I believe what you say about yourself, it is absolutely routine for dealers to pull these kinds of stunts. Cutting every possible corner, doing unnecessary work and charging for work not done. Hell, if you're an honest mechanic you'll routinely make 30% to 40% less than the dishonest mechanics. It takes a very strong moral character to stick to their principles when the cheats are making 50% more than they are and laughing at them into the bargain.

 

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Everybody charges book time. So why don't you? That's the whole point of having a book. It's the only way a good mechanic can make a decent living. The whole thing's a pantomime. I once waited for 90 minutes while a Toyota I owned was serviced - I forget what for. The bill included 2-1/2 hours of labor????? It wouldn't be good for business if customers really understood what's going on.

There's an independent Volvo tech who posts here that (says he) can do a Volvo timing belt in 45 minutes.

 

I don't believe they even did that. And if they did it was a bad idea as that engine was notorious for intake plenum leaks. Squirting solvent into the intake manifold softens up the intake plenum gasket. I replaced the stamped steel plenum plate on that truck myself with an aftermarket 1/4" aluminum plenum plate. Dodge's fix for that design defect was a PCM flash that retarded ignition timing to compensate for the intake leaks. That bandaid fix became known as the "death flash" as the engine's performance was so noticeably degraded as a result.

 

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And book time for a 5 cylinder timing belt is what, 2-1/2 hours?

I'm not knocking you but it's really amazing that that is what passes for honesty in the car biz. Work two hours, bill for five. Totally kosher.

Of course the alternative would be to bill 150% more for labor hours and bill actual labor hours worked. What do you think would happen if customers walked into your service department and saw the sign on the wall which said "our labor rate is $250.00/hour." Of course that's what your customers are actually paying but it's easier to swallow when it's billed at $100.00/hour and the actual hours worked are multiplied by 2.5.

But dealers are honest. Yep, yep, yep.

 

So now you are making this a debate about book times?

Why should I be punished for investing in the tools I need or having the experience I need to be able to do my job effieciently? Then the slow techs would make more money. Or the guys who don't know what they are doing.

It isn't because I'm taking shortcuts. It's because I have the tools and experience. Using the timing belt example, I actually remove more than necessary to do the job, because it makes it easier for me (I remove the ECM and TCM and housing). So if I can do a 2.5 hour job in 30 minutes because I have the tools and experience, I should charge for 30 minutes? But someone who has to look at VIDA for step-by-step instructions and go back to his toolbox between each step and take two smoke breaks can charge 2.5 hours?

I'm good at my job, that doesn't mean I should make less for it.