My 2004 S60 2.5T was rear-ended in January by a 2007 Ford F250. The girl who hit me had no insurance or drivers license - but luckily the truck was owned by her boyfriend who had Allstate. I knew right away I was in for a hassle when the Allstate adjuster tried to get me to accept a check for $2500 after looking at the damage - telling me if I took the check the claim was closed. He even said "you can take the money and buy a sweet flat screen and be done with it"

I didn't take the check - instead I told themI wanted to work with the best shop in town (based on what my dealer told me) and that Allstate could work directly with them. $6200 and 30 days later I had my S60 back. The repairs were pretty extensive because the subframe (or uni-body?) was damaged. Nearly the entire rear end of the car had to be sawed off and re-done. They painted all the way up the the front of the car to blend it. Even the upper motor mount had to be replaced. The repairs were done very well and I am happy about that.

I went to trade the car in on a 2006 S60 R and the dealer asked if I had any wrecks. Explained that I had been rearended and told them the extent. I was then told that my car was worth only about 1/2 of what the blue book was because "No Volvo buyer would paynear fullprice for a wrecked car." I was offered $8k for my car by the dealer.I got to thinking about this and I called Allstate. They initiated a "diminished value claim". I got a letter in the mail asking me to place a value on the car now that it is wrecked and fixed. I feel this is a ploy to get me to give some lowball number so they can write a check and be done with it. I called Allstate and told them I was no expert in car value and they said "just give us a number and tell us why you feel that way."

My question is - what kind of vaule loss would YOU place on this car? It had 62k miles on it and was in otherwise excellend shape. I've got every repair record, oil change, tire receipt since I bought it in 2005. Based on the Kelly Blue Book for January, given the condition, the car booked for about $18k retail, or $16k private party. It is a certified pre-owned. I understand it no longer qualifies for that now that the car has had more than $5k in damage. (what the dealer told me) The dealer said they would end up sending it to auction and someone who parted cars out would most likely buy it.

The dealer told me it wasn't worth half.... is that a true statement? I know that personally I wouldn't pay much (ifanything)for a VOLVO I knew had been wrecked. I bough the car in the first place for safety after my son (who was in the car during the wreck and was unhurt THANK GOD) was born.

I plan to use your responses when I reply to Allstate, which I have 30 days to do. Any help you can offer would be great! My goal is to get this past me so I can go get an S60R... I really wanted that one the dealer had when I went in there, but I wasn't about to loose so much money on my car!

Thanks in advance!

Daniel
Scottsdale, AZ

 

My wife is a claims adjuster. I'll have her read this post and reply to you later.

 

Im not sure what you are smoking here and where you get your numbers, KBB?? The HIGHEST incorrect book on the planet
If it was IN PERFECT SHAPE, withNO WRECKS and65K miles the wholesale number is about 10 grand.

(These are REAL auction prices, not a guess. Im a dealer).

If it was fixed properly its probably worth nowabout 8 grand to $8500TOPS on atrade in,
(trade in is LESS than auction sale prices)
so they were right on the mark!

Ask/demand Allstateto pay you$2500
(Ask for 3500, bargain andtake 2500-2800)

Oh, BTW, don't be so contructive, (or distructive to yourself in this case).Let the dealer look at the car, don't offer such information.
You say "I don't know".
if and only IF you're asked

 

I should be able to help you out, I am an adjuster and I deal with DOV claims. All of this is based on my states laws so yours could be differant.

The at-fault party owes to indemnify you, the insurance compay is obligated to cover what their insured is legally liable (owes)for. In other words they owe put you back where you were, prior to the accident. No more no less. Some companiesare more willing to dothatthan others. Some adjusters are just jerks, you're not obligated to have to deal with the jerk, you can work up the chain of command. The higher up you go the more authority they have and less time to deal with you so they tend to cave in.You haven't really lost anything yet because you haven't sold the car. So in that regard the compainies willingness to settle now is in good faith. When you trade it in then you will be at a loss andthey owe what you lost. You have duty to "mitigate your damages" (get the best deal you can).You should not have to try to figure this out yourself, I am sorry you are being treated so unfairly. The place to take up that beef is with your states Department of Insurance. Write down the names and details of every conversation you have and always be polite but firm. Very firm.

So we have to start by comparing apples to apples.They will owe you the differance between what you could have traded the car in for prior to the loss and what you can trade it in for now. I suggest NADA, Edmund's.com and your dealer to get your base values on what the trade value would have been if the car had never been in an accident. Then you have to determine what the trade is now. You have a good idea aready as you already tried to trade it.

We call a wholesaler to determine that value. If the customerno longer wants the car, like you, they can sell the car tothe wholesaler and we cuta check for the differance between the sale price and in our case NADA trade value. If they don't want to sell the car we negotiate up to about 75% of the differance. We don'tpay all of it because the DOV is less and less everyyear untill eventually it no longer has an effect. No-one cares if a 15 year old car was in a wreck 10 years ago.Untill they sell the car they haven't lost anything.

So now I give you some tricks I hope work for you. I recently had a claim with a guy who wouldn't sell his car or accept anything I was offering. He was demanding $2500 and the most I was offering was $1700. He threatened to take our insured to small claims court. We knew we would win but it would cost us 2-3k to hire an attorney. It was cheaper to settle with him even though it was more than we owed.

The basis of his argument was...
a. His car was not worth as much as it was before because of the accident. (dimunition of value)
b. By expecting him to trade in in his car he was forced to take a greater loss because we would only pay up to the trade and he would have to pay retail.
c. Bywaiting to settle until he was willing to trade we were intentionally refusing to settle the claim in a timely fashion.

I hope this helps, I guess you can e-mail thru the forum if you have other questions. I only signed on as a member to answer your question.

 

To all who have replied - thank you! To JRM specifically - I could NEVER omit a detail like a wreck when selling anything. I am a very honest person and I would feel terrible not telling someone all of the details because I would never want that to happen to me. Some people might keep their mouths shut. The dealer in this case said "I knew it was wrecked before you told me because we measured the thickness of the paint and could tell it was repainted all the way to the front doors."

I have been told by a good friend who works for Nationwide that the insurance company is suppose to "make you whole." He said they should give me the difference between what my car was worth 1 second before the crash and what it is worth 1 second after the crash. The other thing he said was that I shouldn't accept the "wholesale value" or even a "trade in value" If I was going to sell my car private party then I should get the difference between what it was worth BEFORE and AFTER the wreck... private party values.

With that said - I contacted two seperate "Diminished Value Apraisers" that I found online. They both came up with a preliminary number of between $5500-$8000 for the diminished value. (meaning how much value was lost due to the wreck). They use a percentage of what the NADA value was the minute before it was hit. (Based on January, 65k miles, etc) One saydf I have also been told by them that it doesnt matter if I sell the car today, tomorrow or never. The fact is that my vehicle is now worth less than it was before the wreck and the insurance company is responsible for "making be whole." They both charge about $400 to "fight for me" and said that they have a 95% success rate. I'm going to submit this information to Allstate and see what they say. If they fight then I suppose I will as well.

Also... Initially the person who came and looked at my car from Allstate for the "pre-Diminished Value Claim inspection" said that typically they will try and offer me about $1000 for the diminished value. He said this was a pretty standard ammount for a car like mine but that most people end up fighting and getting a lot more than that.

The worst part of all of this is that if this had not happened I would be driving a SWEET 2006 S60R with EVERY option (almost!) and only 12k miles.... but instead I am dealing with this crap. I spent about 40 hours dealing with this already - including 2 days off of work.... and being in a rental car (An Infinity G35 no less.... horrible ride!) for 30 days. This entire ordeal has been such a pain for me. Of course my other option was to hit the gas and get t-boned instead of rear-ended... and with my girlfriend and 3 year old son in the car that wasn't an option!

Thanks again for your help..... can anyone answer this question.... "what discount would YOU expect for a car that has had the damage mine has had....?"


Thanks!

Daniel

 

My personal greatest fear at the moment is that some yahoo is going to come and wreck my just-paid-off car and I am going to be stuck with a 10k check and looking at 5 more years of car payments..... Get as much as you can!

 

What an ***. I'm not saying to volunteer info, but why flat out lie?A dealer wouldn't be able to notice?

 

My dealer knew before I told him. I suppose being a Volvo dealer for 25+ years gives you a bit of an itch when you see one with a sparkly new rear end on it....

One thing I read online is that the insurance company has to give you "what a reasonable person would pay for your car"... not what some wholesaler would give you. Bottom line is I have NEVER sold a car wholesale, salvage or even traded one in. I have always sold my cars private party and generally get Kelly Blue Book Private Party or BETTER when I do. Why should my car be worth any less in the eyes of the insurance company?

Daniel

 

Hi all,

Came across this thread and wanted to get some help, if possible, for my 2008 Toyota Yaris. Damages on my car resulted in $10,000 (car was purchased used at ~$12,000) in April 2010 !!! There was unibody/frame damage and I filed a demand with the other insurance company (100% at fault) and was denied. Any help on this?? Dealership wouldn't even give me an appraisal unless I trade in the car (which would be at a lower value than selling the vehicle) and for months now I have tried to sell the car but no one wants to buy (knowing the damages)!! Took the car into wholesalers and got two separate estimates at $5k and $6200 yet the other insurance company is not willing to pay the DV or loss of market value as a result of their insured's fault (demand submitted in Nov 2010 after trying to sell the car)!!! My only other options are to submit a new demand or take them to small claims court. BTW I did not include a carfax report in the demand so I don't know if the car is listed as salvage... =( Would it make any difference if I submitted one again? Any help, please????

car_trouble
California

 

If only it were as simple as hiring a licensed appraiser and submitting their automobile diminished value report to the insurance company. When prospective clients call us with questions, after they hear the answers, most of them disappear - never to be heard from again. St Lucie Appraisal prepares the best auto diminished value appraisal that can be obtained in any of the 50 states. We hate to turn away business but the cold hard truth is, regardless of the fact that you'll be submitting irrefutable evidence of how much value your car has lost after collision repairs, companies like Allstate, American Family, Farmers, Liberty Mutual, Nationwide, Progressive, State Farm, Travelers and USAA will still offer settlements representing a fraction the actual diminished value. Where do these people vanish to? Perhaps other independent appraisal companies promise huge settlements or maybe people become frustrated and meekly accept these lowball payouts but being dishonest about our customers' prospects is no way to do business. A more reasonable reality is that you'll need to make a formal complaint to your state's insurance department for unfair claims practices and, perhaps, go so far as hiring an attorney. But in the event your complaint escalates into a courtroom battle, you'll be asking for compensation for appraisal and attorney fees on top of your diminished value and there's a good chance you'll win! Why? Read on.

The automobile diminished value report you receive from St. Lucie Appraisal is based entirely on the opinions of used car managers at automobile dealerships. Was your Honda wrecked and repaired? Our report provides six quotes from Honda dealerships that specifically address your actual vehicle and the exact amount and severity of damage that was repaired. When people trade their cars in, those are the guys who buy them so their opinions are valid. Other appraisal companies providing diminished value reports may use formulas such as the inappropriate (as ruled by The Georgia Supreme Court) Rule 17-C or collect data from auto auctions to formulate their figures. I'm not guaranteeing success if you march into court with this type of appraisal. Insurers can successfully argue that they do not address your specific car or the damages it incurred.

The Georgia Supreme Court's ruling on the inequity of Rule 17-C laid the foundation for fair automobile diminished value settlements in all 50 states. Formulas such as State Farm's Rule 17-C severely shortchanged vehicle owners and, in doing so, provided themselves and other insurers using formulas to determine diminished value with unjust enrichment.

Subsequent to your accident, the adjuster from the responsible driver's insurance company will offer you a settlement for diminished value. If you ask them how they came up with the figure they will either point to a formula, a "certified" appraiser's report or simply refuse to explain their process altogether. I have seen the diminished value reports prepared by independent appraisers hired by insurers and they are a joke. They contain no reasonable facts to back up their assumptions. Most of them are not licensed in any state. Note that "certified" appraisers belong to pay-to-be-certified organizations, not unlike the Better Business Bureau and should not be confused with "licensed" appraisers. A number of insurance company attorneys have contacted St. Lucie Appraisal in the past to inquire about hiring us. Once they learned about our process of using dealer quotes, however, their interest faded quickly as they realized that our reports would result in higher (translation: fair) diminished value settlements. In front of a magistrate or mediator, these types of reports provide actual evidence of how much less your car is worth in the real world. Appraisals based on formulas or auction results can not compare. And insurance company diminished value estimates made up out of thin air (yes, they do exist) will certainly be looked upon as unfair at best and possibly fraudulent in the eyes of a judge.

Face it, even your own insurance agent or broker hasn't informed you of your right to collect diminished value from the insurer of the responsible driver. Regardless of the fact that the settlement isn't even costing your own insurer a dime, agents are mum on the subject altogether. Automobile diminished value is the newest thorn in the insurance companies' side. Their mission is to keep it a secret and their hope is that it will go away.

 

After our accident we asked the adjuster about diminished value and he said he couldn't offer anything unless we got an independent appraiser. We found AutoDamageClaim.com and within a week we got $5,500 for diminished value of our Volvo. Definitely go with professionals, and they do all the work!