Transmission Fluid
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The price for the Volvo fluid is pretty high, at about $20/quart. The trans takes just under 8 quarts, but if they are flushing then they probably put 12 through. So that's $240 in fluid right there, plus labor to flush and to hook up to reset fluid counters.
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You are probably correct.
When he said that they would do a flush I said I am not a fan of flushes because it pushes dirt into the valves. He said, "I've done many, many flushes on these cars and never had a problem." Hm? As young as he looked I wonder what he considers "many"?
Anyhow I went on to say to him that I've also seen mechanics change brake pads and when pushing the piston in, instead of opening the bleeder valve, they just push the piston in which pushes dirt back through the ABS valves, not good idea and the mechanics that do it say the same thing, "I've done many without problems."
I turned and told the service guy that I am not about to be the one that will have a problem.
With 200,000 miles on the car if the fluid has never been changed, it has to look like black blood.
When he said that they would do a flush I said I am not a fan of flushes because it pushes dirt into the valves. He said, "I've done many, many flushes on these cars and never had a problem." Hm? As young as he looked I wonder what he considers "many"?
Anyhow I went on to say to him that I've also seen mechanics change brake pads and when pushing the piston in, instead of opening the bleeder valve, they just push the piston in which pushes dirt back through the ABS valves, not good idea and the mechanics that do it say the same thing, "I've done many without problems."
I turned and told the service guy that I am not about to be the one that will have a problem.
With 200,000 miles on the car if the fluid has never been changed, it has to look like black blood.
I can almost guarantee the service advisor you talked to has no idea what JWS 3309 even means, so he says synthetic.
The price for the Volvo fluid is pretty high, at about $20/quart. The trans takes just under 8 quarts, but if they are flushing then they probably put 12 through. So that's $240 in fluid right there, plus labor to flush and to hook up to reset fluid counters.
The price for the Volvo fluid is pretty high, at about $20/quart. The trans takes just under 8 quarts, but if they are flushing then they probably put 12 through. So that's $240 in fluid right there, plus labor to flush and to hook up to reset fluid counters.
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I've never opened the bleeder when doing brake pads and the procedure does not call for that either. If the fluid is that dirty, you probably already have problems. The brake fluid moves back and forth through the system, so any dirt is already flowing around.
And as for a flush machine causing problems, I think problems are more likely to occur just by removing the fluid and clutch material anyway. The hydraulic circuits already operate under pressure. A flush machine doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. But of course you can believe what you'd like. There are plenty of myths about all sorts of stuff on the internet.
And as for a flush machine causing problems, I think problems are more likely to occur just by removing the fluid and clutch material anyway. The hydraulic circuits already operate under pressure. A flush machine doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. But of course you can believe what you'd like. There are plenty of myths about all sorts of stuff on the internet.
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Oops sorry that I was relating what my expensive Jaguar Service CD tells to do. Wasn't Volvo related. I'm an 18 year Jaguar enthusiast and the wife's Volvo is new in my driveway. Maybe there are new tricks to learn about the Volvo.
Maybe you are talking about using the old method of flushing by using the trans pump, pumping into a container. I like the passive method as opposed to an external pump, it seems so much more civil.
My indie Jag shop owner guy gets a lot of ABS replacement work because the mechanics apply the "I never open the bleeders" protocol. Yes it is probably a small instance but when an ABS block costs $1200, I find opening the bleeders to be a bit of insurance.
Replacing brake pads on an ABS car - Antilock brakes
"Jaguar Parts Technical Information
If your car has anti-lock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS car, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body ($1500). Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it."
tipofmonth4 - XJ40 Brake Briefs
"it is very important during brake pad installation that the flexible brake hose be clamped, and the bleed screw loosened, when pushing the caliper piston deeper into the caliper to allow for the insertion of thicker new brake pads. This procedure expels the dirty fluid from behind the caliper piston and prevents it from being forced back toward the ABS unit. Not bleeding a Teves-equipped car in this manner can cause a problem with violent pulling to one side upon brake application. If you have a car which exhibits this symptom, there is an ABS valve-cleaning procedure detailed at the URL shown above which may stop this problem; there is also a repair kit available from Jaguar."
To each his own though but for me....for cheap insurance I'll bleed those calipers on all cars with ABS.
The Volvo trans fluid? I'm sitting here thinking that maybe I should let it be happy with where it is at except for the jutter going backward up the driveway hill.
Maybe you are talking about using the old method of flushing by using the trans pump, pumping into a container. I like the passive method as opposed to an external pump, it seems so much more civil.
My indie Jag shop owner guy gets a lot of ABS replacement work because the mechanics apply the "I never open the bleeders" protocol. Yes it is probably a small instance but when an ABS block costs $1200, I find opening the bleeders to be a bit of insurance.
Replacing brake pads on an ABS car - Antilock brakes
"Jaguar Parts Technical Information
If your car has anti-lock brakes, changing the pads is a bit different than what most people are used to. With a normal (non-ABS) car, you just unbolt the caliper, press apart the old pads to retract the piston, then replace the pads. This procedure forces much of the brake fluid out of the caliper and back into the master cylinder. The fluid is put back once you step on the brakes.
With an ABS car, you CAN'T force the fluid back; if you do you'll damage the ABS valve body ($1500). Instead, you must open the caliper bleed screw and drain the excess fluid out of the caliper while you press the piston back into the bore. This is very important! If you force the dirty, water-contaminated fluid back through the relatively fragile valve body, you'll ruin it."
tipofmonth4 - XJ40 Brake Briefs
"it is very important during brake pad installation that the flexible brake hose be clamped, and the bleed screw loosened, when pushing the caliper piston deeper into the caliper to allow for the insertion of thicker new brake pads. This procedure expels the dirty fluid from behind the caliper piston and prevents it from being forced back toward the ABS unit. Not bleeding a Teves-equipped car in this manner can cause a problem with violent pulling to one side upon brake application. If you have a car which exhibits this symptom, there is an ABS valve-cleaning procedure detailed at the URL shown above which may stop this problem; there is also a repair kit available from Jaguar."
To each his own though but for me....for cheap insurance I'll bleed those calipers on all cars with ABS.
The Volvo trans fluid? I'm sitting here thinking that maybe I should let it be happy with where it is at except for the jutter going backward up the driveway hill.
I've never opened the bleeder when doing brake pads and the procedure does not call for that either. If the fluid is that dirty, you probably already have problems. The brake fluid moves back and forth through the system, so any dirt is already flowing around.
And as for a flush machine causing problems, I think problems are more likely to occur just by removing the fluid and clutch material anyway. The hydraulic circuits already operate under pressure. A flush machine doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. But of course you can believe what you'd like. There are plenty of myths about all sorts of stuff on the internet.
And as for a flush machine causing problems, I think problems are more likely to occur just by removing the fluid and clutch material anyway. The hydraulic circuits already operate under pressure. A flush machine doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. But of course you can believe what you'd like. There are plenty of myths about all sorts of stuff on the internet.
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Jag might have problems with that, but Volvo certainly does not. Some manufacturers need a scan tool to bleed the brakes due to their ABS. Volvo does not. I've only worked for Volvo so I don't know the difference. But the wording above doesn't even make sense. It isn't like the fluid from behind the piston on the right rear caliper is going all the way back up to the ABS pump by just pushing the piston back.
As for trans flushes, I personally use the trans pump, but a flush machine is fine as well. I would agree that with the age of your fluid, I don't know if I would touch it. If you do, I would save the old fluid, just in case it starts slipping after the new fluid is in there.
As for trans flushes, I personally use the trans pump, but a flush machine is fine as well. I would agree that with the age of your fluid, I don't know if I would touch it. If you do, I would save the old fluid, just in case it starts slipping after the new fluid is in there.
Last edited by ES6T; Oct 23, 2013 at 04:33 PM.
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You should see the Service Manual protocol to flush the brakes. Turn the car off, do left rear, turn the car on do the right front, turn the car off - do the right rear, turn the car on and do the left front.
There is always the Service Manual method and then there is the real world method. Sometimes it seems the Service Manual has you disassembling the entire car to replace a fuse.
As the retired Service Manager said, he was one of the guys that are part of my Starbucks group of hang-outs........ removing all that stuff is what makes great book rate. The Service Department didn't get to be the profit center just by chance, it was by design.
They provide a service to a lot of people that can barely open a hood. I've always worked on my own car, replaced my first engine on a P544 when I was 16. I've replace my own Jag engines, etc. Someday I will be too old and I will be at the service managers desk asking for help. To be honest, I won't be happy when the day comes that I can't work on my cars.
There is always the Service Manual method and then there is the real world method. Sometimes it seems the Service Manual has you disassembling the entire car to replace a fuse.
As the retired Service Manager said, he was one of the guys that are part of my Starbucks group of hang-outs........ removing all that stuff is what makes great book rate. The Service Department didn't get to be the profit center just by chance, it was by design.
They provide a service to a lot of people that can barely open a hood. I've always worked on my own car, replaced my first engine on a P544 when I was 16. I've replace my own Jag engines, etc. Someday I will be too old and I will be at the service managers desk asking for help. To be honest, I won't be happy when the day comes that I can't work on my cars.
Jag might have problems with that, but Volvo certainly does not. Some manufacturers need a scan tool to bleed the brakes due to their ABS. Volvo does not. I've only worked for Volvo so I don't know the difference. But the wording above doesn't even make sense. It isn't like the fluid from behind the piston on the right rear caliper is going all the way back up to the ABS pump by just pushing the piston back.
As for trans flushes, I personally use the trans pump, but a flush machine is fine as well. I would agree that with the age of your fluid, I don't know if I would touch it. If you do, I would save the old fluid, just in case it starts slipping after the new fluid is in there.
As for trans flushes, I personally use the trans pump, but a flush machine is fine as well. I would agree that with the age of your fluid, I don't know if I would touch it. If you do, I would save the old fluid, just in case it starts slipping after the new fluid is in there.
Last edited by urdrwho; Oct 24, 2013 at 07:55 AM.
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I understand, at that is a different car. The Volvo procedure for bleeding brakes is much more straightforward. And when the service manual calls for a ton of steps, I personally follow them unless there is another way that in no way compromises the car.
Example- top engine mount on a P2. One bolt is covered by the coil cover. I've seen some come in where rather than remove the cover, someone cut the cover to access the bolt. That is a hack job and while it saves time, I can still easily beat book time and do it right.
Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll leave it at that.
Example- top engine mount on a P2. One bolt is covered by the coil cover. I've seen some come in where rather than remove the cover, someone cut the cover to access the bolt. That is a hack job and while it saves time, I can still easily beat book time and do it right.
Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll leave it at that.
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Joe - I don't mean to be negative - but you must not have read this thread completely (first page to last page). The answer is clear.
1) DO NOT flush your transmission. That would be horrible. I repeat DO NOT do that.
2) The fluid you must use is a JWS-3309 equivalent fluid. The popular choices are Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV (yes, Toyota T-IV).
I have the same exact model car as you (2007 2.5T FWD). I used Mobil 3309 but swapped over to Toyota T-IV because I can get it cheaper.
As far as actually changing the fluid, you want to start off slowly. Either do a drain/fill (which only does ~3 quarts) or use the IPD kit that will allow you to utilize the tranny cooler line going into the radiator to pump a couple quarts out (with engine running). Then refill with a couple quarts.
I say do 2-3 quarts every time you change the oil for 3 oil changes. Then move to a 6 quarts every ~12,000 miles or so.
Some people do a drain and fill every oil change because it only does ~3 quarts. I, personally, use the IPD kit because I do 6qts at a time every 2nd oil change.
Tim
1) DO NOT flush your transmission. That would be horrible. I repeat DO NOT do that.
2) The fluid you must use is a JWS-3309 equivalent fluid. The popular choices are Mobil 3309 and Toyota T-IV (yes, Toyota T-IV).
I have the same exact model car as you (2007 2.5T FWD). I used Mobil 3309 but swapped over to Toyota T-IV because I can get it cheaper.
As far as actually changing the fluid, you want to start off slowly. Either do a drain/fill (which only does ~3 quarts) or use the IPD kit that will allow you to utilize the tranny cooler line going into the radiator to pump a couple quarts out (with engine running). Then refill with a couple quarts.
I say do 2-3 quarts every time you change the oil for 3 oil changes. Then move to a 6 quarts every ~12,000 miles or so.
Some people do a drain and fill every oil change because it only does ~3 quarts. I, personally, use the IPD kit because I do 6qts at a time every 2nd oil change.
Tim
For DIY-ers who don't have IDP kit, a multi-use transfer pump at Harbor Freights (item# 66418 for $8) works great too. I used it last night to do a partial transmission fluid change (suck out 3 1/4 qts old fluid and pump back in 3 1/4 qts with new Mobil 3309 fluid) for my daughter's 2008 S60 in 15 minutes. The big red tubes came with the pump fit perfect in the transmission check tube. To speed up the process, do not remove the tube out of the tranny between evacuation and pumping in, just reverse the tubes at the pump.
Update: Here is the pump http://www.harborfreight.com/multi-u...ump-66418.html
Last edited by netdvn; Jan 1, 2014 at 04:20 AM.
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In the past I've owned those pumps. I found that on some of my cars the rubber hose was too thick to fit down the fill tube. Glad to hear that it fits down the Volvo tube. Think I'll order some of the Mobil 3309 and start a slow remove and add method.
For DIY-ers who don't have IDP kit, a multi-use transfer pump at Harbor Freights (item# 66418 for $8) works great too. I used it last night to do a partial transmission fluid change (suck out 3 1/4 qts old fluid and pump back in 3 1/4 qts with new Mobil 3309 fluid) for my daughter's 2008 S60 in 15 minutes. The big red tubes came with the pump fit perfect in the transmission check tube. To speed up the process, do not remove the tube out of the tranny between evacuation and pumping in, just reverse the tubes at the pump.
Update: Here is the pump Multi-Use Transfer Pump
Update: Here is the pump Multi-Use Transfer Pump
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Don't know other Volvo models but it's perfect fit for the 2008 S60. I have three Mercedes Benz vehicles and the transmission tubes are too small for the red tube. Well, my 2011 E350 does not have transmission check deep stick - only way to change the ATF is pumping new transmission fluid in at the draining hole.
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ok for all of you wondering if Valvoline maxlife synthetic dex/mer is ok to use in The 5speed autos. the answer is maybe.(Im using it in my rebult tranny and will keep you updated as how it performs. I know theirs not really a clear answer if this fluid will be bad for your tranny or not. I will update every 10k miles
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ok for all of you wondering if Valvoline maxlife synthetic dex/mer is ok to use in The 5speed autos. the answer is maybe.(Im using it in my rebult tranny and will keep you updated as how it performs. I know theirs not really a clear answer if this fluid will be bad for your tranny or not. I will update every 10k miles
There is a clear answer in a bulletin by Volvo. No, that fluid is not approved. If you spent the money to have the trans rebuilt, why cheap out and put the wrong fluid in? And if the shop rebuilding the trans put that in, I don't know how confident I would be in their knowledge.
Last edited by ES6T; Jan 6, 2014 at 08:56 AM.
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Because I bought one for my wife and I like the car, I'm shopping for a used Volvo right now. I see a fair amount of them that the body, the engine, the interior is in great shape. Then there is the bit about trans issue. I'm starting to guess that there are shops out there that install the wrong fluids into the trans and that is the reason for all the trans issues I see in the advertisements.
Some of the ads that say transmission shifting problems tempt me because the selling prices are so tempting. If perhaps a good fluid drain / flush/ install the correct fluid would make the trans happy again, I could get a good deal. But I'm not sure if I like the odds.
Hydraulic systems and fluids are a bit picky. I don't take the chance of ruining a trans. I am not a trans guy and that means I would need a shop and that means I would not be happy camper. Sooooo when I do the fluid job I will use the Mobil 3309 product.
Some of the ads that say transmission shifting problems tempt me because the selling prices are so tempting. If perhaps a good fluid drain / flush/ install the correct fluid would make the trans happy again, I could get a good deal. But I'm not sure if I like the odds.
Hydraulic systems and fluids are a bit picky. I don't take the chance of ruining a trans. I am not a trans guy and that means I would need a shop and that means I would not be happy camper. Sooooo when I do the fluid job I will use the Mobil 3309 product.
There is a clear answer in a bulletin by Volvo. No, that fluid is not approved. If you spent the money to have the trans rebuilt, why cheap out and put the wrong fluid in? And if the shop rebuilding the trans put that in, I don't know how confident I would be in their knowledge.
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I'm about to sort out a flush for my S60. It's got the tiptronic/automatic transmission. Is that what you guys refer to as geartronic?
Edit: Never mind. Just Googled. It is. Sorry!
Edit: Never mind. Just Googled. It is. Sorry!
Last edited by chiQ; Jan 8, 2014 at 11:16 PM.
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Just read the entire 30 pages. What I found most interesting was that mod Tech stated that they have used the Valvoline Max Life Synthetic many times and that it has been verified as 3309 compatible. So I opened up my owners manual and it states the trans fluid requires Volvo 1161540. Next I looked on the back of the Valvoline Maxlife bottle and it says it is Volvo 1161540 compatible. It also says it is Toyota Type T-IV compatible. Like s60guy37 I am going to give it a try. Not a complete exchange via the cooler line, but a simple drain/fill. I did a complete exchange using 3309 about 15K miles ago and the old fluid was pretty dirty. It looked good for a little while after I first did it, but now it has turned pretty brown again. The fresh additives are breaking down the varnish etc. that had built up in there I'm sure. Trans shifts fine except for a flared shift into 3rd under very light acceleration. If driven normal to aggressive it is not there. Car has 160K on it. Will report back.
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I am looking for an S60 like my wife has and I see a lot advertised with trans problems. Such as it won't go into reverse, won't engage in first, etc. I wonder how many of the problems I see are due to people using Dexron? My Caddie, Jaguar, Saturn, 2 Subbies all use Dexron and I wouldn't have known any difference before researching on this forum. There are probably independent mechanics that would just do the Dexron and from what I read, it is a fatal fluid exchange.
Hello, KJVBlueXJ - I have nearly your same car, but I looked up the factory info on this transmission fluid, and it is definitely synthetic. The fluid that is being used for 5 and 6 speed automatics is: part# 1161540 (1 liter container) and part# 1161640 (4 liter container). It is specifically engineered to address 2 transmission complaints for harsh engagement/disengagement (Service bulletin 43-0029) and a Squeaking noise at low speeds (Tech Net Note # 43-11). It is not the same fluid as is used for the 4-speed automatics, which use Dexron IIIG or Dexron IIIH.
I would advise against using other fluid because it could be a very expensive mistake :-)
My .02 worth
- Lynn
I would advise against using other fluid because it could be a very expensive mistake :-)
My .02 worth
- Lynn
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Update on Valvoline Maxlife Fluid:
500 miles since the drain/fill, so approximately 3 qts of Maxlife and the rest 3309. Significant improvement in the 2nd to 3rd flared shift. Is still there, but much less pronounced and barely noticeable. Occurs only under very light acceleration and slightly more pronounced when cold. If driven at medium throttle seems to shift completely normal. All other shifts very smooth. Planning another drain/fill at next oil change (5K intervals) and will update again.
500 miles since the drain/fill, so approximately 3 qts of Maxlife and the rest 3309. Significant improvement in the 2nd to 3rd flared shift. Is still there, but much less pronounced and barely noticeable. Occurs only under very light acceleration and slightly more pronounced when cold. If driven at medium throttle seems to shift completely normal. All other shifts very smooth. Planning another drain/fill at next oil change (5K intervals) and will update again.
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Transmission fluid flush XC90 2006 2.5T
HI,
I just received my car back from Stamford Volvo and they charged me 369.00 for a transmission flush. They used part # 1161540, 8 liters @ 19.64/ltr. They claim it took 2 techs 1.5 hrs @ 130/hr. They showed me the fluid and it was black, I don't think its ever been changed and I currently have 76k miles on it. Im thinking this is a fairly inexpensive thing to have done for such an important part on the car like the transmission. I probably could have shopped around and got it done cheaper but knowing a Volvo tech did it was worth the premium.
Thanks,
Sal
2006 Volvo XC90 2.5T
Love the way this car drives
I just received my car back from Stamford Volvo and they charged me 369.00 for a transmission flush. They used part # 1161540, 8 liters @ 19.64/ltr. They claim it took 2 techs 1.5 hrs @ 130/hr. They showed me the fluid and it was black, I don't think its ever been changed and I currently have 76k miles on it. Im thinking this is a fairly inexpensive thing to have done for such an important part on the car like the transmission. I probably could have shopped around and got it done cheaper but knowing a Volvo tech did it was worth the premium.
Thanks,
Sal
2006 Volvo XC90 2.5T
Love the way this car drives
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That's a LOT of coin for this job. To put it into perspective, I can buy 8 quarts of the volvo specific fluid for $60. That's an average price. I can find it cheaper. It takes 1/2 hr to do the flush in my garage. Even if the stealership does their usual double markup on parts and charges $150/hr (ridiculous) and overcharges the labor to one full hour ... That's $270 ... And again, that's double markup on parts, an exorbitant labor rate, and a high labor time.
HI,
I just received my car back from Stamford Volvo and they charged me 369.00 for a transmission flush. They used part # 1161540, 8 liters @ 19.64/ltr. They claim it took 2 techs 1.5 hrs @ 130/hr. They showed me the fluid and it was black, I don't think its ever been changed and I currently have 76k miles on it. Im thinking this is a fairly inexpensive thing to have done for such an important part on the car like the transmission. I probably could have shopped around and got it done cheaper but knowing a Volvo tech did it was worth the premium.
Thanks,
Sal
2006 Volvo XC90 2.5T
Love the way this car drives
I just received my car back from Stamford Volvo and they charged me 369.00 for a transmission flush. They used part # 1161540, 8 liters @ 19.64/ltr. They claim it took 2 techs 1.5 hrs @ 130/hr. They showed me the fluid and it was black, I don't think its ever been changed and I currently have 76k miles on it. Im thinking this is a fairly inexpensive thing to have done for such an important part on the car like the transmission. I probably could have shopped around and got it done cheaper but knowing a Volvo tech did it was worth the premium.
Thanks,
Sal
2006 Volvo XC90 2.5T
Love the way this car drives