timing belt did not tightened now intake cam locked
#1
01-24-2011, 08:04 AM
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timing belt did not tightened now intake cam locked
hello i have a 2000 volvo v70 awd turbo
just got done doing a head gasket
after reading the directions for the timing belt
i installed but could not figure out how to tighten once the belt was on
after putting fluids in it started for 5 seconds then it stopped
I heard a metal sound .
then i removed the belt and was going to try again but the intake cam
is locked it will not move .but the exhaust one will.
is it possible a valve dropped ?
also when I find and fix what ever problem that is
what is the correct way to tention the belt
now i have read the directions and as i see it the eccentric must be turned
with an allen key to the right to the stop
but is that after or befor i turn the eccentric counter clock wise past the mark 20 ' or to the mark
thanks for any help i can get here
just got done doing a head gasket
after reading the directions for the timing belt
i installed but could not figure out how to tighten once the belt was on
after putting fluids in it started for 5 seconds then it stopped
I heard a metal sound .
then i removed the belt and was going to try again but the intake cam
is locked it will not move .but the exhaust one will.
is it possible a valve dropped ?
also when I find and fix what ever problem that is
what is the correct way to tention the belt
now i have read the directions and as i see it the eccentric must be turned
with an allen key to the right to the stop
but is that after or befor i turn the eccentric counter clock wise past the mark 20 ' or to the mark
thanks for any help i can get here
#2
01-24-2011, 08:33 AM
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valves hit
ok looked into this
and if the timing is a tooth off this will cause the valves to hit the head
and lock it .
so my question here is it ran for like 5 seconds
if my timing was off it should not have even started ?
the belt was tight when i put it on but if that slips
then that can make the time jump a tooth ?
what else could make this happen ?
when doing the head and setting the cams back in place
i put them right back were they were i marked them
also the cam sprockets were marked and put back
to there markings I also corrosponded to pictures and markings
so everything was dead on were it was .
I dont really want to do another head job but if i must i must .
and if the timing is a tooth off this will cause the valves to hit the head
and lock it .
so my question here is it ran for like 5 seconds
if my timing was off it should not have even started ?
the belt was tight when i put it on but if that slips
then that can make the time jump a tooth ?
what else could make this happen ?
when doing the head and setting the cams back in place
i put them right back were they were i marked them
also the cam sprockets were marked and put back
to there markings I also corrosponded to pictures and markings
so everything was dead on were it was .
I dont really want to do another head job but if i must i must .
#3
01-24-2011, 11:14 AM
Mark, you started out by saying "THE BELT WAS LOOSE". If it was loose, there is a good chance that the timing was off, it jumped a tooth, etc.. A car will start and try to run if the timing is off or these cams are not aligned properly. As much as I hate to say this but you may have started the car with the cams out of alignment and damged your head. If the cam is locked I would suggest checking the valves to make sure they are not broken. Not sure how to do that without pulling the intake or something but you need to figure out if there is some real damage in there.
I replaced a few timing belts and every time, the end of the instructions had me to turn the cam for the motor to rotate 2 full revolutions. Not sure if it's the same for the 2000 models but did you do that before you started the car?
I replaced a few timing belts and every time, the end of the instructions had me to turn the cam for the motor to rotate 2 full revolutions. Not sure if it's the same for the 2000 models but did you do that before you started the car?
Last edited by rspi; 01-24-2011 at 11:17 AM. Reason: addition
#4
01-25-2011, 05:31 AM
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I talked to the machine shop i had the head done at and valves installed
and he said i have to take the head back off and that with these cars the timing has to be spot on .and that it was likily that that valves are hitting .
I would do it now but its snowing i did this job in the freezing cold , lots of fun .
when i put the cams in i put them back in according to there marks
also when i put the belt on i also turned the crank and all the marks on the cams came right to the top and as well as the crank everything line up .
also when i put the belt on is was nice and snug from the crank to the intake cam but there was slack inbetween the crank and exhaust cam water pump
and tentioner .
i turned it another 2 x to see if the belt would tighten and it dident really seem like it got tightened ?
and he said i have to take the head back off and that with these cars the timing has to be spot on .and that it was likily that that valves are hitting .
I would do it now but its snowing i did this job in the freezing cold , lots of fun .
when i put the cams in i put them back in according to there marks
also when i put the belt on i also turned the crank and all the marks on the cams came right to the top and as well as the crank everything line up .
also when i put the belt on is was nice and snug from the crank to the intake cam but there was slack inbetween the crank and exhaust cam water pump
and tentioner .
i turned it another 2 x to see if the belt would tighten and it dident really seem like it got tightened ?
#5
01-25-2011, 09:54 AM
Sounds like your tensioner failed. I'm not sure but does it have the same kind of tensioner that the early models have? Does it have the tensioner that you have to compress and put a pin in and pull the pin out so it presses against the tensioner roller and takes the slack out of the belt?
I pulled my cam rollers off to do my cam shaft seals last month and my cams moved all over the place. I had several marks that were put on the cam sprockets, shaft, back cover, etc.. It's not that hard to get everything back the way it is but if something fails it will be a mess. Sounds like I'm grinding on you and I don't mean to but it's tough to do this stuff just right if something fails on you. Did you get a new tensioner? When is the last time the tensioner was replaced?
If you can afford to take it in to have it fixed or have someone with a garage, that may be the thing to do. I assume you were doing the work yourself to save $$$.
Thanks for sharing your experience. If you can think of something you can post to help others avoid the same problem please do so. Also keep us posted as to if there is a real problem with your car or if it turns out to be something simple.
I pulled my cam rollers off to do my cam shaft seals last month and my cams moved all over the place. I had several marks that were put on the cam sprockets, shaft, back cover, etc.. It's not that hard to get everything back the way it is but if something fails it will be a mess. Sounds like I'm grinding on you and I don't mean to but it's tough to do this stuff just right if something fails on you. Did you get a new tensioner? When is the last time the tensioner was replaced?
If you can afford to take it in to have it fixed or have someone with a garage, that may be the thing to do. I assume you were doing the work yourself to save $$$.
Thanks for sharing your experience. If you can think of something you can post to help others avoid the same problem please do so. Also keep us posted as to if there is a real problem with your car or if it turns out to be something simple.
Last edited by rspi; 01-25-2011 at 09:57 AM. Reason: addition
#6
01-25-2011, 10:22 PM
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thanks for getting back to me i am ready to tear this head
off first thing in the morning , this has only the tentioner with a wheel , there is no spring loaded one that you have to put in a vice .
i will defintly have it checked out ,
when setting the cams is there any thing else to pay particuler attention to ,
all i did was carfully pull the top cover and alternetly remove all the bolts as specified and then even took pictures of the cams positions as well as have them marked before removal
and all the arrows were pointed up on the cams as well as the crank , before removing belt .
off first thing in the morning , this has only the tentioner with a wheel , there is no spring loaded one that you have to put in a vice .
i will defintly have it checked out ,
when setting the cams is there any thing else to pay particuler attention to ,
all i did was carfully pull the top cover and alternetly remove all the bolts as specified and then even took pictures of the cams positions as well as have them marked before removal
and all the arrows were pointed up on the cams as well as the crank , before removing belt .
#8
01-26-2011, 03:02 PM
#9
01-26-2011, 03:08 PM
#10
01-26-2011, 03:14 PM
For the record, you could be nearly two teeth out and still not knock the valves off the pistons (dont ask LOL). It will start if it is a couple of teeth out. Now if it has VVT and both the cam gear AND VVT unit are out then all bets are off on valve/piston rendezvous.
It does sound like it slipped beyond one or two teeth however. I hope I'm wrong
I know too well what its like working on a car in the freezing cold.
It does sound like it slipped beyond one or two teeth however. I hope I'm wrong
I know too well what its like working on a car in the freezing cold.
Last edited by NoLifeTilBoost; 01-26-2011 at 03:18 PM.
#11
01-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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#12
01-26-2011, 07:28 PM
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here is a link to this engine good picture of the tentioner .
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
now that i know this happen from a sticky valve lifter
is it safe to rule out the belt not being tentioned ?
next set of pictures will show the damage .
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo...eat=directlink
now that i know this happen from a sticky valve lifter
is it safe to rule out the belt not being tentioned ?
next set of pictures will show the damage .
#13
01-26-2011, 08:13 PM
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here are my pictures of the damage
cams scratched on lobes
picture of lifter is just to show what one is stuck
http://picasaweb.google.com/radleyen...eat=directlink
cams scratched on lobes
picture of lifter is just to show what one is stuck
http://picasaweb.google.com/radleyen...eat=directlink
#14
01-26-2011, 09:00 PM
Hmm not sure what's going on there to be honest, but it looks recoverable. Were the lifters taken out of the head while you worked on it? And if so where they soaked in oil before dropping them in? The clearances are pretty tight between the lifters and their pockets so if a lifter doesnt sit square it can stick. I'm surprised it can stick enough to stop a cam and put pressure on the journals though. Did you clean everything before the pics? I would expect to see more oil, even if the motor hadn't started.
Can you get that lifter out? If the motor was running with the VVT pulley where you have it in that pic it was incorrect. Not enough to do damage though.
Look like you have a date with some emery paper!
Did you turn the motor over a few times with the fuel cut off to get the oil circulating before you started it?
Can you get that lifter out? If the motor was running with the VVT pulley where you have it in that pic it was incorrect. Not enough to do damage though.
Look like you have a date with some emery paper!
Did you turn the motor over a few times with the fuel cut off to get the oil circulating before you started it?
Last edited by NoLifeTilBoost; 01-26-2011 at 09:04 PM.
#15
01-26-2011, 09:42 PM
when u installed the lifter u need to checked the gap between the cam and the lifter also dip them in oil while u do this. i dont remember the gap size but if i remember tomorrow ill look it up. when u removed the head did you mark where each lifter goes? i usualy mark them exhaust and intake and 1-10.
#16
01-27-2011, 04:19 AM
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yes turned over by hand 6 x more like 3 sets of 2 .all coming up to there marks .
what is the correct position for the vvt pulley ?
all the lifters where # before removal and put back in .
there was fresh oil used and was still clean on this time around .
I cant really see how just one lifter can stop the cam .
maybe have them all replaced and resurface .
think you can just replace one lifter thought they have to be a set ?
what is the correct position for the vvt pulley ?
all the lifters where # before removal and put back in .
there was fresh oil used and was still clean on this time around .
I cant really see how just one lifter can stop the cam .
maybe have them all replaced and resurface .
think you can just replace one lifter thought they have to be a set ?
#17
01-27-2011, 04:22 AM
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when u installed the lifter u need to checked the gap between the cam and the lifter also dip them in oil while u do this. i dont remember the gap size but if i remember tomorrow ill look it up. when u removed the head did you mark where each lifter goes? i usualy mark them exhaust and intake and 1-10.
also I had the mechine shop do the head
it was cleaned and crack flo checked .
#19
01-27-2011, 08:40 AM
Cant say anthing about the position of the tensioner, but theres no cam to lifter clearance to check on these motors that I'm aware of. It would be difficult to to given that the cams aren't in place until the cover is on!
Are you sure its the lifter thats stuck, not the valve? Maybe something fell into the spring and stopped it moving? Any signs of contact with the piston at all?
#20
01-27-2011, 08:47 AM
For the VVT, here's something I put together on MVS. Basically, the three bolts on the exhaust pulley that are on the left of their holes in your pic, should on on the right:
When boiled down, its incredibly simple. The end goal is that all the notches should line up and the VVT unit (inner part of the cam pulley) will be turned fully clockwise to its limit position. Therefore the three small bolts on the pulley should be in their rightmost position. Thats it! I messed mine up at first when I rebuilt the top end of my T6. I corrected it two nights (100miles) ago with the belt still on, code are now gone and it runs like a champ. I'm not a mechanic by trade so the info below is E&OE, at your own risk with no warranty implied.
Basically, consider it to be a three stage process:
Stage 1
Forget the VADIS proceedure for now and whatever you have tried so far
Stage 2
Have the crank locked in position on its mark. Drop a 6" 3/8 extenstion into the hole near the starter, turn motor counter clockwise by hand until it hits the stop.
Cams should locked in position, in line with seam in head.
Ensure all all notches are lined up on the cam pulleys with the timing belt cover.
Timing belt sould be on.
Inner bolt on cam pulley that fixes the unit onto the camshaft should be torqued down (Circa 88Ft Lbs, please verify).
The three bolts for the cam gear to VVT unit should be loose
VVT unit should be turned fully counter clockwise (bolts will be on the left of the holes in the toothed pulley when this is done).
If you cant achieve stage 2, ie the VVT unit will not move far enough counterclockwise for the three bolts to be at their leftmost limit, then the center bolt that attaches the unit to the cam needs to be loosened as their relative positions are incorrect.
Stage 3
Keep cams locked, pulleys at marks amd crank locked\at mark.
Fit the outer "cap" onto the VVT unit (T60 torx), no need to torque it yet.
Rotate the VVT unit clockwise using the cap with a T60 torx until it hits its limit.
Lock the three outer pulley bolts.
Torque the VVT cap (25 lb/ft I think, please verify).
You should now be in a position where all marks line up and the three pulley bolts on the VVT unit are on rightmost part of the holes in the toothed gear.
** Have a beer. **
Basically, consider it to be a three stage process:
Stage 1
Forget the VADIS proceedure for now and whatever you have tried so far
Stage 2
Have the crank locked in position on its mark. Drop a 6" 3/8 extenstion into the hole near the starter, turn motor counter clockwise by hand until it hits the stop.
Cams should locked in position, in line with seam in head.
Ensure all all notches are lined up on the cam pulleys with the timing belt cover.
Timing belt sould be on.
Inner bolt on cam pulley that fixes the unit onto the camshaft should be torqued down (Circa 88Ft Lbs, please verify).
The three bolts for the cam gear to VVT unit should be loose
VVT unit should be turned fully counter clockwise (bolts will be on the left of the holes in the toothed pulley when this is done).
If you cant achieve stage 2, ie the VVT unit will not move far enough counterclockwise for the three bolts to be at their leftmost limit, then the center bolt that attaches the unit to the cam needs to be loosened as their relative positions are incorrect.
Stage 3
Keep cams locked, pulleys at marks amd crank locked\at mark.
Fit the outer "cap" onto the VVT unit (T60 torx), no need to torque it yet.
Rotate the VVT unit clockwise using the cap with a T60 torx until it hits its limit.
Lock the three outer pulley bolts.
Torque the VVT cap (25 lb/ft I think, please verify).
You should now be in a position where all marks line up and the three pulley bolts on the VVT unit are on rightmost part of the holes in the toothed gear.
** Have a beer. **
Last edited by NoLifeTilBoost; 01-27-2011 at 08:58 AM.