Hi, Pretorien. I can't disagree with anything you said. Particularly, you're right that storage space isn't an issue for everyday use. With yours and a few other comments I've received in this forum, I've been given some useful feedback that I'll take into consideration.

Thanks

 

I have to say, this was one of the coolest in-depth analyses I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

Enjoy your new ride!

 

Just to be fair: A 15 gallon fuel tank is silly small for a car the size of the V90 and, assuming the basic engine is the same as mine, there is no crankcase dipstick - oil level measurement is dependent on an electrical read-out (1) electrics can and do fail and (2) looking at the oil on a dipstick can provide a useful warning of incipient problems.

Forgotten in my earlier post - between the '76 265 and the '03 V70 there was a 1994 E300 MB wagon - comfortable, great road car, outstanding capacity and, by the time it was 7 years old with 110,000 miles on the clock it had accumulated $17,000 in repairs (not maintenance) so when the transmission showed signs of failure, bye bye.

 

Once again, Pretorien, I find it very hard to disagree with you ... particularly regarding MB repair costs. In buying the E450, in my case, I would do so under the following two conditions: #1) Purchase the 3 year extended warranty and #2) sell the car prior to the expiration of 7 years of ownership. Who knows, by the time 7 years rolls around, based on the tremendous changes in cars in the past 7 years, what type of vehicle (if that is what we will call it then) transportation will be around. I was born in the 1950's and admit to liking the early 1960's Jetson's cartoon show. Perhaps, by the time the next 7 years pass us by, we may be traveling via this ...

 

Of course, should some people have their way, it could be this:

 

Hi, mt6127. I agree with your post, but want to add a little more regarding your safety comment. In general, I also feel that "safety" differences among most car brands are getting narrower, particularly front and side collisions that can cause death or serious injury. However, in the area of rear collisions and whiplash protection, I'm not sure if this is the case. Since my wife has had extensive back surgery, and her doctor has mentioned that even a mild whiplash injury could leave her with paralysis, you can see why I have a keen interest in this topic.

I've read studies that upwards of 75% or more of people in car accidents suffer some form of whiplash, ranging from very mild to severe. In addition, studies have shown that 50% or more of post-accident injury costs are associated with whiplash treatment of some form, from physical therapy to surgery. While its true that deaths and serious injury statistics have been on a steady decline, as more and more airbags, etc., are introduced for collisions, whiplash injury incidents still remain alarmingly high.

While, in America, the NHSTA (NHSTA.GOV) and IIHS (IIHS.ORG) now include significant headrest testing of cars certified for use in America (I believe they started around 2010 or so), Europe's Euro NCAP institute (EURONCAP.COM/EN) implemented testing (I believe) around 2008. Most car brands opted for the quickest/cheapest/easiest way to satisfy this new testing, by addressing (a) seat construction to better hold up in a crash, (b) better conformity to a person's back, (c) improved seat belts to better restrain a person and (d) enlarge the headrest and ensure that it is properly behind one's head. Volvo took a more unique approach. They redesigned the whole chair and incorporated a unique "sled" feature that (somewhat) tilts the whole seat back to cradle the passenger. Also, from what I can tell, they started to address this whiplash concern well before most other brands, who (I believe) earnestly started to address only once they realized whiplash testing would be instituted.

Here's Volvo's whiplash seat design ...



In fairness to Benz (the only other car brand that I felt was serious about really improving whiplash protection, beyond testing standards), their approach was to incorporate technology into the existing seat design. Here, they incorporated rear bumper sensors to predetermine if a rear end collision will occur. In the event of a rear collision, the sensors ensure that the passenger seat belts are tightened and the brakes are pre-charged. At the moment the collision occurs, the headrest moves forward, accompanying the passenger's head, and remains close to the head when the passenger falls back into the seat backrest. Also, at this time, the brakes are automatically activated to avoid moving forward, out of control.

Volvo's imminent rear collision detection works much the same as the MB. I believe the differences are that Volvo's system turns on the 4-way flashers (to alert both the car occupants and the on-coming car) and uses their cradle-type seat design, instead of relying of headrest improvements, to mitigate whiplash.

I think some other car brands might have headrests that slightly move forward with the passenger's head and tighten the seat belt but, based on my review of this topic, I've come to the conclusion that (particularly in my wife's case) I prefer the design of the Volvo and Benz front seat whiplash systems.

 

To the guys who participated in this V90 vs E-class estate wagon thread, I have a confession to make. Based on my 1/28/2020 post, after much consideration, I had stated my intent to purchase the E over the V. Instead, I changed my mind and placed an order for a 2020 V90 Inscription estate wagon today.

While I appreciated all of your comments and suggestions, Pretorein's 1/29/2020 "seat comfort" comment ("The seats are something that come into play every time you use the car"), in particular, caused me to really rethink my decision. My wife also felt that seat comfort was most important and that the V's front seats were superior to the E's.

Interestingly, I also posed my E vs V purchase question to the Benz Owner's forum, and some of these members had less than complementary comments about the E's poor front seat comfort. Several of these members stated that they use seat cushions to overcome the discomfort, while one stated he only used the E for short errands, due to poor seat comfort, and used his BMW for long-distance trips. Lastly, another Benz owner stated that his wife hated the front seat comfort and questioned why the E was purchased (happy wife, happy life).

All of this, coupled with my wife's concern about front seat comfort .... finally .... brought me back to reality.

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I just (today) ordered a fairly well optioned 2020 V90 Inscription estate wagon, and couldn't be happier. The only option missing is the high-priced stereo system, which I didn't need. I gave a small deposit and the dealer confirmed with Volvo that a chassis number had been assigned to my build. It looks like the V90 will arrive in-time for my wife and I, plus our dog, to enjoy Spring-time driving. I can't wait.

Yes, IMO, the V does not drive as well as the E, nor is the V's 4 cylinder engine to my liking versus the E's 6 cylinder. The V doesn't have the storage room of the E, and I prefer the E's dashboard screen layout to the V's. But, the seat comfort of the V is outstanding ... and something that, at the end of the day, I couldn't forget or pass up, the vehicle's safety features (the vast majority of which come as "standard" equipment) are superb, and the use of non-run-flat-tires (along with a spare tire) is much preferred over the E's run-flat-tires (and no spare tire). Lastly, the V's exterior styling is really amazing! While I could have afforded either vehicle, the out-the-door cost of my fairly well optioned V was approximately $20K less than the E, plus the V comes with the first 3 years/30K miles of oil/oil filter changes included in the purchase, while the E's does not. I can use the savings to take my wife to Europe ... not bad!

Look forward to getting my V90 in a month-or-two and, hopefully, sharing posts with you as time goes on.

 

Thanks for letting us in on your decision - hope the new car will meet all your expectations.

Ironically, I can offer the following in German but not in Swedish:

gute Reise!

 

Congratulations, hope you enjoy your V90 as much as I do. I think the Harmon Kardon audio system is fine, I didn't see the need for the more expensive unit either.

 

Update on my 2020 V90 Inscription factory order. Ordered on 2/17/20 and delivered to the dealer on 5/15/20. On Sunday, 5/17, I visited the closed dealer to check out the car on the lot. Found out the car had the WRONG wheels! Contacted the dealer on 5/18 to inform them of this (they didn't know the wheels were incorrect and had planned to deliver the car to my home on 5/19). I told them that, under no circumstances, would I accept the car unless it had everything on my signed order form, including the correct wheels. It took the dealer from Monday, 5/18 to Friday, 5/22, to get back to me. It was then that they said that they (the dealer) had made a mistake when they entered the factory order into Volvo's system. The dealer offered a discount on the car, rather than stating a clear plan to get the correct wheels installed on the car. They also mentioned that if the wheels were changed from the their original (erroneous) factory order, I might have problems with the factory warranty down-the-road. I told them that, under no circumstances, would I accept the car with the wheels they ordered and that, in-light of what they said about the warranty, I would not accept the car ... and told them to cancel my order. Really disappointed. Waited 3 months for this?

 

Sorry to read this - I think you have a dealer problem. I can think of no reason why changing one factory spec wheel for another should affect the warranty. You might consider contacting Volvo HQ in New Jersey. I have found them helpful on several occasions when the answers provided by the dealer were unsatisfactory.

 

The saga continues although, hopefully, I may actually get the car that I ordered, with the options I selected.

After requesting cancellation of the car order and a return of my deposit, a different salesman, working with the finance manager, offered to exchange wheels/tires with a new car scheduled for arrival in a few days at the dealership.

I will update if/when I get the car, and provide pictures. What a journey!

 

Perhaps someone there has his head screwed on right! My guess is that since the dealer was responsible for the error, they, not Volvo would be on the hook to fix it. I haven't bought any OEM alloys lately but my guess is that, since the standard fitment is either 19 or 20", they were looking at several thousand $, even at dealer's cost.

Good luck!

 

Nice to hear from you, Pretorien. I have no doubt that the wheels are quite expensive. IMO, the whole point in factory ordering a new car is to get what you want. When the mistake was realized (by me checking my sales order against the actual car), it took the salesman 4 days to get back to me to admit his error, and then was a bit arrogant with his take-it-or-leave-it approach to resolving the issue. There are three types of people I don't suffer lightly from; fools, arrogant people and those who aren't truthful.

I felt, if the dealership wished to honor the sales agreement and/or get this newly arrived V90 off of their lot, the only economically viable and expedient way to do so would be to swap wheels from another new car. I also felt that, although the V90 Inscription is really stunning (IMO), it doesn't sell nearly as well as the Cross Country; most people prefer the 20" wheels (mine are 19"). Lastly, being honest, if there is any poetic justice in this world, perhaps the salesman's arrogance, and not being initially forthright with what had occurred, was repaid by a father-and-son chat from the dealership owner. Mistakes can and do happen. We are all human. To me, it's not about the mistake that was made, but rather how I was treated initially when the error was uncovered and what was done to correct it.

On a more positive note, at least so far, it looks like the dealership, and some good people within it, are working to properly address this issue. During my new car research, I spent a considerable amount of time also reviewing dealership reputation. The dealer I selected for my new car purchase was very clean (e.g., very good customer reviews, good dealer rating, no recent or significant law suits, had a long history of family ownership, was not a part of a multi-dealership conglomerate, etc.). IMO, the initial response I received from the salesman ran contrary to how, based on my research, the dealership operated. At the end of the day, it's possible that the dealership may not be able to get a car to swap the wheels from. If that happens, I'll walk away from my V90, at least knowing that they tried to correct the error.

 

I have followed the saga of your decision and purchase with great interest. You are certainly absolutely correct in the position you have taken with the dealer. I also agree with (and had guessed at) your choice of a 19" vs a 20" wheel. (I actually think a 17" wheel would be a better choice for the vehicle and its intended purpose but we are in an era of form over function in wheels) I looked briefly for Volvo wheels and found similar but not identical ones available, typically with a list price a little over $700/wheel so the dealer is possibly facing a cost of $3000 (- dealer discount) to set things right.

This move to ultra large wheel/low section tires makes no sense for a road car. The fractional improvement that a lower and stiffer sidewall confers in "at the limit" handling on dry roads is offset by loss of ride comfort and increased vulnerability to road hazards. It is particularly ludicrous in 4WD (e,g Cross Country or SUV) cars although, realistically the roughest terrain perhaps 95% of them face is a gravel driveway.

Stick to your guns!

 

Agree. I would have much preferred a 17" or, at most, an 18" wheel. Unfortunately, Volvo, in their infinite wisdom, just provides 19" and 20" wheels. At least they still provide a spare tire! Just like the too small gas tank and the sleek, but space sucking rear roof line, I am a little perplexed by some of Volvo's decisions. I prefer comfort, function and safety over fashion, but I realize most may prefer the reverse.

 

So it's Friday, May 29, 2020. Got the word today that the dealership cannot get the correct wheels for the car I ordered back in February 2020. Gave me back my deposit. I will follow with a more complete update, once I actually speak with the dealer's owner. I gave him until 6/2 to talk with me about how things transpired.

 

Continuing saga ... Saturday, 5/30/20: Was told that the dealership owner provide new wheels. Supposedly, on Monday, 6/1/20, he'll get back to me to verify arrival date.

In a follow-up email to the owner on 5/30/20, I further said that, as soon as the rim error was found, (a) the salesman should have been honest, said that he made a mistake and provided a real apology, (b) I should have been informed, then and there, that the dealership would obtain the rims in an expeditious manner and do what is right for me, and (c) I should have been given a revised at-home delivery date, or at the very least, been told that my V90 would be delivered by XXX number of days. The dealership did none of this, but instead returned my initial ordering deposit ... after I waited over 3 months for the car's delivery! To compound things, the salesman who input the order into Volvo's system lied to me, stating that the replacement of the incorrect/as-delivered rims with the other factory rims on my order form "might" void the factory and/or extended warranty (I'm sure he did this to try and scare my into accepting the V90 as-is).

I'll see what transpires in the coming week. I've put the dealership's owner on notice that, particularly if the car is not delivered to me, with the rims I ordered, I will communicate all that has transpired to as wide an audience as possible. I belong to several Volvo owners forums, one local Volvo owners group and several car enthusiast groups. To-date, I have not mentioned the dealership's name, and will not until this is resolved, one way or the other.

For me, in addition to everything I did right in selecting and ordering the Volvo (e.g., researched price/safety, conducted a long-distance test drive, obtained 5 out-the-door dealer quotes, worked through the Costco Auto Buying Program, researched the dealer customer reviews and checked for litigation, etc), the following are things I didn't do, but will do, before ever ordering a new car again:

A) Talk to the dealership owner (preferable) or president, and get their direct phone number and email address. If I can't do this, I will not order a car from the dealership.
B) Demand a print-out of the actual factory order that is entered into the automobile company's vehicle ordering system.
C) Compare the manufacturer's vehicle order with my order form, which includes my and the dealer's signature.

In my case, I think I did everything right to select the right car for me from, what I thought, was the right dealer. Unfortunately, I've seen from my own experience that I still had more to learn. Wisdom is sometimes gained through the pain of personal experience, or by learning from others. Perhaps seeing what happened to me may help others, when/if they decide to purchase a car.

 

I'm happy to see that there may be some light at the end of the tunnel! While your "take away" might be a few more items on a buy a new car check list, it is hard to fault your approach. Such a plan, if broadly implemented, would force a new set of standards in auto dealers' business practices. If Volvo Cars NA and the dealership were wise, they should do the following:

1. The dealership owner (or, for that matter, any other businessman) should recognize that bad behavior on the part of any employee can severely damage the reputation of the business. From one of your earlier posts, I gleaned the impression that the salesman in question had family ties to the owner - even worse.

2. Volvo should make a transcript of this entire thread required reading at every Volvo dealer.

Good luck!

 

The saga is almost over ... Earlier in the week (6/1/20) I got a call from the salesperson I placed the order with (not the one who entered my new car order incorrectly into Volvo's system). He said that the dealership owner had placed a rush order for 4 new wheels, per my new car order, and that they should arrive on 6/3/20. They did! He called me and I stopped by the dealership to see the car. It looked terrific! The dealer will deliver the car to my home on 6/5/20, per my request.

I told the salesman to offer my thanks to the owner, who I would have liked to have met in-person, but thought he was busy. Just as I was about to leave the parking lot, the owner rushed out. We had a very good and sincere conversation. I could see he was sincere in apologizing for his dealership in this transaction and had discussed things with the salesman who had incorrectly ordered my car and had not been proactive in correcting his error. I believed him. During my research, I had also checked out this dealership's reputation, which included a review of buyer feedback and a litigation check. The buyer reviews were fine, and showed nothing concerning. Regarding my litigation review, the only thing I found was an incident 19 years prior, which was (justifiably) found in the dealership's favor. The dealer was extremely clean, particularly compared to other dealers I reviewed, which made my difficulties with my purchase so unusual. I expressed this to the owner who said that they always try to treat the customer well and that what had happened was out of the norm. Again, I believe he told the truth.

It appears the owner had instructed the salesman, who incorrectly entered my order, to "give the customer whatever he wanted", which could have been a return of my deposit OR getting and installing the correct wheels on the car. Unfortunately, the salesman just gave my deposit back. When I sent the owner an email on 5/29/20, stating my dissatisfaction with not having the wheels replaced and honoring the new car contract, he stated that he was surprised and immediately ordered the wheels, himself.

As I told the owner, mistakes happen. What's most important is how one addresses a mistake, when it occurs. I believe the owner did the right, honorable and moral thing in ordering and acquiring the correct wheels, once he found that his instructions were not properly carried out. Although I was/am not happy with the ordering salesman, I cannot and will not disparage the entire dealership for the transgression of one individual. Particularly in this tough (corona virus) economic time, I believe it's important that we support each other and support good businesses that, even though they are under significant and unprecedented financial strain, strive to still do "the right thing".

PS: My 2020 V90 Inscription looked fantastic in the dealer's garage! Can't wait to have it in my driveway, where I'll take a few pictures and post!