Hi. We purchased a 2000 V70 Wagon with 130,000 miles on it 2 years ago. The car has had regular maintenance since we bought it. We believe the ETM is the original one, but think that the software upgrade was done (the engine is at 900 rpm when idling).

A couple of weeks ago the car started to lose power on both acceleration and cruising (quite a scary experience on the highway). It would go from 60 mph to 40 mph and not reach highway speed on on ramps. This power loss is intermittent and tends to occur at highway speeds or when the accelerator is stepped on hard. We've also noticed a slight drop in power when turning corners, but once the turn is complete the car returns to normal.

Our local Volvo dealership replaced the MAF sensor, ECT sensor and thermostat (to the tune of $900). Husband drove the car home and thought it seemed OK, but when I took it out the next day the same symptoms were there. Took the car back to the dealer and now have been told that it could need a new throttle position sensor, catalytic converter (which was replaced already) and that the voltage is a bit erratic and that the "alternator throttlebody cat and 02 should be replaced". Total cost of approximately $4,000.00. Also no guarantee as to if this will fix the car.

We have a friend who has a scanner and pulled the following codes after the MAF, ECT and thermostat were done: P1601, P0420, P0225 and P1670. My husband bought a new throttle position sensor and replaced that yesterday. Last night, when pulling away from a traffic light, the car lost power again (was not stepping hard on the accelerator) and after about 5 seconds I could feel the car respond again. When it starts to respond, it feels almost like the car is lurching. My husband had the car out this morning and floored it numerous times and had no problem with it so we're not sure what we should do.

We love the car for it's comfort, safety features and ride, but at this point, I'm petrified to drive it. I'm wondering if anyone out there has had a similar problem and has any advice for us. Putting $4,000 into an 11 year old car is not an option for us, but I would hate to scrap it.

Thanks.

 

I don't think it's a scrap situation but something needs to be done. You can sell it to someone that is willing to take the risk of repairs. I would suspect a fuel delivery problem but who knows. You have had a lot smarter people than me check it out. It's sad that the dealer has to throw parts at it, anyone can do that. Sometimes fuel pump relays cause strange problems but they usually cause stalling. Wish I could help. Maybe someone else will chime in.

 

I think you should get another opinion from another repair shop. Is there a good independent repair shop that specializes in European cars? Let them have a look at it. If they agree that it needs additional parts then consider the cost and make your decision...they may even offer to buy the car from you if they need a parts car.
You need more info about the car's condition before you decide to sell it.

 

Sorry in advance but will give you my honest opinion. The 1999-2002 model years (MY) were not the best; kinda infamous for transmission and ETM (electronic throttle module) failures. You can get the ETM fixed (which i suspect may be your current problem) with an aftermkt part for about $700 if you do the work yourself; probably about $1000 if you have a indy tech do it. IMO it's a better fix than the original design which would run at least twice as much to replace if you go that route.

But I would hate to have you fix that and then turn around soon after and sink another $4000 into trans OH. Could go with a junkyard replacement but that's like playing the lotto.


If it were me this is what I would do:

1. First go back the dealer who took your money but didn't fix your car and threaten legal action if they don't give you a refund. Look at your receipt; I am sure they guarantee their work for at least 30 days. These are supposed factory trained professionals; they're not supposed to be guessing on how to fix your car; they had better know!
2. Then once you get hopefully most of your $$ back, try to sell the car for whatever you can get; probably be less than $2000.
3. Then look to replace it. Look for a clean 2004 or newer, or a really clean '98, V70. The latter will be very rare, but they're out there. Look for service records; have a trusted indy volvo tech ck it out before you buy. Research the car before you buy!
4. Oh yeah, never go back to that dealer again!! I would even report them to your state's attorney general and to Volvo...

Yes, these are great cars, but with caveats! Good luck.

 

Thanks for the advice rspi, billshoff and gdog.

I didn't want my husband to buy this car in the first place because of the ETM issues. I've wondered if that could be our problem too, but everything I've read about it says that the car will display hunting at idle symptoms and we have none of that.

We're debating whether to go the XeMODex route. Does anybody have any experience with that?

We have gone back to the dealer with our complaint, but the service manager doesn't seem too bothered. I'll draft a letter to the dealership owner. I wouldn't expect to get money back for the parts that they installed, but I do think that they should refund us the labor fees.

I'm trying to convince my husband to take it to an independent shop near us that specializes in Volvos (hubby is the kind of guy who likes to do it himself and I fear that by the time we're done, he'll have replaced everything on the car). Found a 1998 V70 wagon with 110,000 miles for $4,500 near us - might go and see it this weekend. Are the 98's easier to fix for the do-it-yourselfer?

 

Did a post two days ago that said was in moderation and would be posted, but it hasn't shown up.

Thanks for the replies. To be honest with you I didn't want my husband to buy the car because of the issues I read about, but once he makes up his mind there's no stopping him. We are currently in the process of trying to get some satisfaction from the dealership. Our best chance may be for the refund of the labor costs. I'm sure they won't reimburse us for the parts.

My husband put on the new throttle position sensor and while the car is OK as long as you don't press hard on the gas, as soon as you press it hard the car loses power. Let up on the gas pedal and the car resumes speed OK.

We had the car scanned after putting in the new throttle position sensor and the one consistent code we're getting is 1603. We have also got a 1670 and 1601. More and more it looks like we're looking at the ETM, but we're not getting the "hunting at idle" issue at all. I'm wondering if the aftermarket part that gdog was talking about would be a good idea. My husband and his brother are very handy when it comes to cars so they could probably do the work. I'm going to email the company with my tale of woe and see what their opinion is. From all the research I've done, the company seems very customer satisfaction oriented.

If anybody else has any thoughts, please let me know. Thanks.

 

RE: ETM failures and symptoms; just found this link via RSPI (thanks man!)

Very informative and good resource; should be required reading if you have an ETM on your car:
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/vol...module-fiasco/

 

Oh boy, sounds like the dealer made a bit of a mess of this one.....
Can you clarify EXACTLY what your husband replaced. You car does not have a throttle postion sensor perse. It has a PEDAL position sensor at the pedal and then and all-in-one electronic throttle unit under the hood.

One of these codes refers to the PEDAL sensor, the other might be a faulty ETM or it may just be coked up and need cleaning.

A decent indy should be able to isolate a pedal position sensor issue with basic OBD tools. Connect it, go for a drive, monitor the reported throttle position and look for anolmyies. If that looks normal then look elsewhere for issues. The ETM issues are very common, but given the codes and the symptoms you have I wouldnt be too quick to blame it just yet. At least isolate the pedal position sensor first and also have the throttle body cleaned if it has not been already.

 

Hmm p1670 is an interesting one too, from here https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-...0-p1671-22771/

"P1670/71 equate to Volvo code ECM720A whichis a breakdown in the communication to the immobilizer. It could be a faulty engine control module or a faulty immobilizer control moduleat worst or something simple such as a faulty key or bad wiring connection."

Again im not convinced that the ETM is the silver bullet, just yet.

 

sorry about the multiple posts..... The cat efficiency threshold is usually around 95%. Ie if you cat is still 94% efficient, it will throw the code. So I wouldnt worry too much about that code right now.

Does this car do a lot of start stop driving or is it mostly freeway. If its mostly start stop then a dirty throttle body along with a slighty below perfect cat makes sense. Apparently 1gal of laquer thinner with a half tank of gas can help clear the deposits that gather on the cat, reducing its efficiency. An "italian tuneup" can help too. Both of these present their own risks, but keep in mind that a cat replacement is not the only possible fix

 

To your original question, I'd guess that your worst case $$ scenarios to fix would be less than cost to replace. So if nice, well maintained, and you like it, fixing would make sense.

 

Hi everybody.

This is where we stand now. We contacted the reconditioned ETM company and they too weren't 100% sure it was the ETM. They suggested that we remove and clean the pins to the Engine Management Relay. We did that and it helped immensely with the loss of power on acceleration (would say a drop of 90%), but it didn't cure it completely.

We found an independent Volvo mechanic just 2 miles from our house. He test drove the car and of course it ran just fine. (There were no codes at that point because my husband had his friend remove them.) After the service light came back on we took the car back and he got two codes. Unfortunately I can't remember the numbers, but I know one was for the catalytic converter and the other was for a failure of the ETM! The catalytic converter is an issue because at some point in time someone replaced the original with a cheap after-market one and from what we understand Volvos don't do well with after-markets. The mechanic is currently looking for a used original Volvo converter. He also found that one of the rear suspension bolts was broken (something that the dealer didn't mention despite having the car twice). Last Wednesday we replaced the ETM with the reconditioned one and so far (touch wood), all seems well.

We are still pursuing the Volvo dealership for a refund of labour costs. Would you believe the service manager had the gall to tell us that our car was running rough and stalling when we brought it to them. The car has never stalled on us and beyond the loss of power on acceleration (if they count that as running rough), never ran rough. I'm pretty convinced that we're going to have to go beyond the service manager to the owner of the dealership to get any satisfaction. I'm not holding my breath, but I tell you we will never step foot into a Volvo dealership again!

 

Re: cat converter: may be an issue but it's not your driveability problem (unless it's really clogged up).

Re: dealing with the dealer: Don't dick around with the service manager; he's just trying to cover his butt. Insist on talking to the dealer GM or owner. Make sure you got your I's dotted etc. before though; these guys will be very slippery (and hold onto your wallet)! Have every interaction with them noted and documented with a time-line. If all else fails, threaten to show up on their front step with a picket sign (that actually works; they don't want bad PR).

BTW: don't need to bad-mouth ALL dealers; some are actually good guys and very helpful to their customers. But as with anything it's buyer-beware out there. Look online for local recommended shops, etc.

 

gdog, I understand what you're saying about not all dealerships being bad, but unfortunately this was our first experience with a Volvo dealership (a large dealership that was well recommended) and it has left an extremely bad impression that isn't going to go away any time soon. Now if the service manager, GM or owner of the dealership step up to the plate and take responsibility for not fixing our car, then we might consider going to a different Volvo dealership in another city near us. However, since we've found an independent guy who specializes in Volvos (whose labor costs are about 25% cheaper), we'll probably only go to Volvo to get parts.

We do have a question for you. Should any Volvo dealership be able to tell us if our car has had the ETM software upgrade done if we give them the VIN? We contacted the aforementioned dealership and they said that we'd have to bring the car in because they "needed to use a scanner to connect to a satellite". Fortunately, when we bought the car there were some previous service documents in the glove box. We contacted that dealership and they were able to tell us over the phone that both the ETM and transmission software upgrades had been done.

 

Believe me I'm not defending dealers!! Just saying you can't lump all of them into the same pile because you had a bad experience.

In general I think you will get better quality service at a fairer price at an indy. But that's not a rule; you have to research them; CarTalk Mechanics Files isn't bad; take everyone's advice with a grain of salt...

Regarding how volvo dealers track what work's done to what car, i have no idea how they do it; someone who works a volvo dealer might be able to tell you. That story they told you does sound bogus to me though; suspect they want you to come in so they're closer to your wallet...

 

The main thing I have experienced about dealers is this, if they have a competitor, they are usually better. When they are the only dealer within a 200 mile drive, they usually give poor service. I really like a dealer in the Charlotte area. Good price parts, long time knowledgable sales people, good service area, parts department workers that actually call you back and ship parts all over the country at good prices, this place is awsome.

Now on the other hand, my local stealer sucks to the clouds. I took my 740 in once to have them check out a vacuum problem with my ac system and they actually gave me a list of about 12 things that needed to be done to the car. The crazy thing about the list is I had done about 9 of those things a week before. What they did was check to see when the last time I had taken the car in there and figured nothing had been done. Since the car was old they figured they'd hit me up for some maintenance due to the fact that car looked real good and they figured that I wanted to keep it on the road. I went wild in that place.

Any dealer should be able to type your vin in their computer and tell you what warranty and recall work had been done on the car. As for other repairs, they may not know unless they had to register the work with Volvo of North America. When I purchased my daughter's S70 I contacted Volvo to figure out how far the odometer was rolled back. It seems like it was rolled back about 43,000 miles. The car looked so good they figured they could roll it back and sell it quicker. I don't think they actually rolled the cluster back, just replaced it with one will lesser miles.

Some dealers are good and some are just plane sorry and do not want to service any cars that they didn't sell or are older than 8 years old.

 

I have a 2000 v70. My car had the same problem, at about the same milage. The car now has 176,000 miles on it. Took it to the dealer. There was a recall on the part that was the problem. Replaced the part and never a problem scince. I have scince found an independent Volvo mechanic that maintains car beautifully. I will look through my records to find what the problem was after work to let you know.