VVT Hub
#1
04-21-2012, 10:17 PM
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Location: Port Kembla, N.S.W. Australia
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VVT Hub
I bought my Volvo V70 wagon a year ago *cheap* (!) with only 130,000 kms on it. I thought with that low mileage it couldn't have too much wrong with it mechanically. How wrong can you be! I wonder if it's one of those rare lemons. Since it was cheap, I expected to have to spend a bit on it, but not the $7,000 I've so far spent (starting with a new gearbox! How the hell could the original owner destroy the gearbox in only 130,000 kms?). The list of other stuff I've had to get done would take up all your space. Even the electric window switch was broken. It had been 'hunting' since I got it and the Volvo dealer, one experienced non-dealer mechanic and three auto electricians could not find the cause. One of the auto electricians told me to just drive it as is, because finding the fault could cost a fortune. After a year of it, the 'hunting' was driving me nuts. The local Volvo dealer mechanic said multiple faults were showing up and we should fix them all starting with the cheapest. I didn't like that idea so I took it to a dealer further from home. They said the timing was out, so they pulled it apart and found the VVT hub is broken (or whatever happens to them - can you tell me?) They re-set the timing and gave me a quote for $2200. It seems fair enough as I've asked around. I asked the local Volvo mechanic if he could do the job and his apprentice told me they'd never done that kind of job there so I gave up and booked it in with the Volvo dealer mechanic. Anyhow, after the timing was reset, the motor was running like a dog with three legs. Apparently the timing was set wrong to accommodate the VVT hub problem so at least the car would more or less go. I can't get the problem fixed for another week as they were booked out. My question is, is it safe to drive it short distances? I've already driven it 90 kms back from the mechanic. It goes OK once it gets going, but when it slows down or stops, like I said, it's like a dog with three legs and the whole car is shaking. It's very scary when the brake power booster stops working right when you're approaching a busy intersection and you really have to stand on the brake pedal. Presumably it will still have some brakes even if the engine cuts out. In the last week I've only driven it 8 kms and only to get emergency food supplies. But I may have to work one day next week. Could I drive it to work? Is anything terrible going to happen if I drive it here and there before the problem is rectified? I don't want to do expensive damage to the head or valves. I'm presuming any damage would be caused by the valve timing? Thank you.
#2
04-21-2012, 11:40 PM
What a tale of woe. As usual it seems like some of the mechanics you have seen want only to separate you from the maximum amount of your money.
As far as the VVT pulley goes you can disconnect the VVT solenoid and then drive the car like that indefinitely. You won't notice much of a difference in how the car drives. But, and it's a big but, whoever did this - "They re-set the timing and gave me a quote for $2200." - has done something really strange. Reset the timing? The crank-cam timing? How? Could be stupidity, could be sabotage. In any case, disconnect the VVT solenoid and see what happens. Put some effort into finding an honest independent Volvo specialist. Dealer service departments are often nothing but thinly-disguised organized crime syndicates. Also, at 130,000 km you need to replace the timing belt system if it hasn't already been done and it most likely hasn't. The VVT pulley can be replaced at the same time.
As far as the VVT pulley goes you can disconnect the VVT solenoid and then drive the car like that indefinitely. You won't notice much of a difference in how the car drives. But, and it's a big but, whoever did this - "They re-set the timing and gave me a quote for $2200." - has done something really strange. Reset the timing? The crank-cam timing? How? Could be stupidity, could be sabotage. In any case, disconnect the VVT solenoid and see what happens. Put some effort into finding an honest independent Volvo specialist. Dealer service departments are often nothing but thinly-disguised organized crime syndicates. Also, at 130,000 km you need to replace the timing belt system if it hasn't already been done and it most likely hasn't. The VVT pulley can be replaced at the same time.
#3
04-22-2012, 03:44 AM
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Bunch of satanists
What a tale of woe. As usual it seems like some of the mechanics you have seen want only to separate you from the maximum amount of your money.
Yes, I certainly agree with that. The local Volvo mechanic, who doesn't own the special Volvo diagnostic computer and can't re-set things, is very honest and very reasonable, but when I visited his workshop, he wasn't there, and the 3rd year apprentice told me they'd never done such a job and he'd never heard of the problem. I've never been overcharged there, at least, and they use generic parts when possible. The closest Volvo dealership is just as you say, a sabotaging organized crime syndicate. No, seriously, it's more accidental incompetence (don't want to be sued for defamation here). So I tried one some distance away and they say the VVT hub is broken, so who am I to argue! They guarantee the car won't be doing the 'hunting' thing once they replace it. I want this in writing.
As far as the VVT pulley goes you can disconnect the VVT solenoid and then drive the car like that indefinitely.
This is new information I've never heard of. Thank you.
So it's not vital to timing the valves? I don't understand these dang newfangled cars - I'm used to 1970s vehicles.
You won't notice much of a difference in how the car drives. But, and it's a big but, whoever did this - "They re-set the timing and gave me a quote for $2200." - has done something really strange. Reset the timing? The crank-cam timing? How? Could be stupidity, could be sabotage. In any case, disconnect the VVT solenoid and see what happens. Put some effort into finding an honest independent Volvo specialist. Dealer service departments are often nothing but thinly-disguised organized crime syndicates. Also, at 130,000 km you need to replace the timing belt system if it hasn't already been done and it most likely hasn't. The VVT pulley can be replaced at the same time.
Yes, I certainly agree with that. The local Volvo mechanic, who doesn't own the special Volvo diagnostic computer and can't re-set things, is very honest and very reasonable, but when I visited his workshop, he wasn't there, and the 3rd year apprentice told me they'd never done such a job and he'd never heard of the problem. I've never been overcharged there, at least, and they use generic parts when possible. The closest Volvo dealership is just as you say, a sabotaging organized crime syndicate. No, seriously, it's more accidental incompetence (don't want to be sued for defamation here). So I tried one some distance away and they say the VVT hub is broken, so who am I to argue! They guarantee the car won't be doing the 'hunting' thing once they replace it. I want this in writing.
As far as the VVT pulley goes you can disconnect the VVT solenoid and then drive the car like that indefinitely.
This is new information I've never heard of. Thank you.
So it's not vital to timing the valves? I don't understand these dang newfangled cars - I'm used to 1970s vehicles.
You won't notice much of a difference in how the car drives. But, and it's a big but, whoever did this - "They re-set the timing and gave me a quote for $2200." - has done something really strange. Reset the timing? The crank-cam timing? How? Could be stupidity, could be sabotage. In any case, disconnect the VVT solenoid and see what happens. Put some effort into finding an honest independent Volvo specialist. Dealer service departments are often nothing but thinly-disguised organized crime syndicates. Also, at 130,000 km you need to replace the timing belt system if it hasn't already been done and it most likely hasn't. The VVT pulley can be replaced at the same time.
This is what they wrote on the receipt.
CHECK FOR CODES, CODES SET FOR CAMSHAFT RESET VALVE & OXYGEN SENSOR. REMOVE COVERS & CHECK TIMING. FOUND OUT ON THE EXHAUSTE CAM. SET UP TIMING. VEHICLE IS STILL RUNNING ROUGH, REQUIRES VVT HUB 1275363 $925 AND SEAL 9458309 $48 + LABOUR (APPROX $550)
The bill was $521 which they said they'd take off the cost of the repair. So, I was a bit out in my calculation of the cost.
I really appreciate the time you put into responding to my question.
I will get out the manual and find out where this VVT solenoid is.
#4
04-22-2012, 08:44 AM
The timing belt was replaced at 100,000, stamped by a Queensland Volvo dealership.
This is what they wrote on the receipt.
CHECK FOR CODES, CODES SET FOR CAMSHAFT RESET VALVE & OXYGEN SENSOR. REMOVE COVERS & CHECK TIMING. FOUND OUT ON THE EXHAUSTE CAM. SET UP TIMING. VEHICLE IS STILL RUNNING ROUGH, REQUIRES VVT HUB 1275363 $925 AND SEAL 9458309 $48 + LABOUR (APPROX $550)
The bill was $521 which they said they'd take off the cost of the repair. So, I was a bit out in my calculation of the cost.
I really appreciate the time you put into responding to my question.
I will get out the manual and find out where this VVT solenoid is.
This is what they wrote on the receipt.
CHECK FOR CODES, CODES SET FOR CAMSHAFT RESET VALVE & OXYGEN SENSOR. REMOVE COVERS & CHECK TIMING. FOUND OUT ON THE EXHAUSTE CAM. SET UP TIMING. VEHICLE IS STILL RUNNING ROUGH, REQUIRES VVT HUB 1275363 $925 AND SEAL 9458309 $48 + LABOUR (APPROX $550)
The bill was $521 which they said they'd take off the cost of the repair. So, I was a bit out in my calculation of the cost.
I really appreciate the time you put into responding to my question.
I will get out the manual and find out where this VVT solenoid is.
The VVT solenoid is easy to get to. It's under the plastic covers on top of the engine. You will need a Torx T30 socket (I think) to remove the Torx screws. After thinking more about your problems I'm not sure that disconnecting the VVT solenoid will help, but it's easy to try and won't hurt anything.
You said your car is "hunting." Do you mean the engine revs will not stay steady? If so, that may be your ETM (electronic throttle module). You didn't say what year your V70 is but early-2000s V70s and several other models had ETMs with a defective design from the factory. You can read more about that here. I think the problem your car has with idling is more likely an ETM problem than a VVT problem. The "professionals" know very little about the ETM problem because it's a defect Volvo should have done a recall on but didn't. Instead they hushed it up. That organized crime thing again.
The prices you were quoted for parts are outrageous. The cost of that VVT pulley (1275363) here is about US$250. This eBay seller is a Volvo dealer (tascaparts.com) and they ship worldwide.
This site is a great resource. Also, join volvoforums.org.uk. There's a much higher level of knowledge on that forum than there is here. At volvoforums.org.uk you can probably find a VVT pulley how-to to give to your independent mechanic. It's actually not a difficult job but it's essential to have a special cam-locking tool, Volvo or aftermarket.
So....I would: (1) check and replace (if necessary) your ETM. You can buy an upgraded part from the dealer (maybe - don't let the dealer flash your ECU with Volvo's band-aid software fix), from Xemodex, or you can even buy a fix kit on eBay. Replacing the ETM is an easy job you may be able to do yourself. (2) Replace the VVT pulley/hub.
One more thing, I guess. The problem you're having with your brakes may be yet another unrelated issue. Your car (probably) has a brake vacuum pump. I have no experience with these but your brake problem could be a failing vacuum pump or vacuum leak.
Don't give up. When you finally fix these two or three issues your car will be transformed.
Last edited by migbro; 04-22-2012 at 09:47 AM.
#5
04-23-2012, 04:28 AM
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OK, Louise. First problem, they can't write an English (Australian) sentence.
No, they can't!
They reset the CODES that they found. Who knows what "SET UP TIMING" means.
I did ask. They claimed they set it using the timing marks.
Hopefully it means they rotated the engine to put the crank and cams on the timing marks, though it may mean they monkeyed with the position of the VVT pulley. If they did, that was basically sabotage as your exhaust valve timing would then be messed up, which would be an additional problem on top of the VVT hub failure.
Oh dear.
The VVT solenoid is easy to get to. It's under the plastic covers on top of the engine.
OK, thanks for that, I haven't had time to study the workshop manual.
You will need a Torx T30 socket (I think) to remove the Torx screws.
I'd have to go and buy one then.
'
After thinking more about your problems I'm not sure that disconnecting the VVT solenoid will help, but it's easy to try and won't hurt anything.
That's good to know.
You said your car is "hunting." Do you mean the engine revs will not stay steady?
That's right. Its computer is apparently searching for something it can't find.
If so, that may be your ETM (electronic throttle module).
The ETM warning has occasionally come on, along with the computer warning light.
You didn't say what year your V70
1999
is but early-2000s V70s and several other models had ETMs with a defective design from the factory. You can read more about that here.
Thanks....
I think the problem your car has with idling is more likely an ETM problem than a VVT problem. The "professionals" know very little about the ETM problem because it's a defect Volvo should have done a recall on but didn't. Instead they hushed it up. That organized crime thing again.
The prices you were quoted for parts are outrageous. The cost of that VVT pulley (1275363) here is about US$250.
Is it?? Goodness, I should have purchased one over the internet then!
This eBay seller is a Volvo dealer (tascaparts.com) and they ship worldwide.
Thank you. I'll check that out in a minute. The quote says 'VVT Hub and Seal'. So they have to replace the pulley too but they haven't mentioned it?
This site is a great resource.
I'll save that.
Also, join volvoforums.org.uk. There's a much higher level of knowledge on that forum than there is here. At volvoforums.org.uk you can probably find a VVT pulley how-to to give to your independent mechanic. It's actually not a difficult job but it's essential to have a special cam-locking tool, Volvo or aftermarket.
So....I would: (1) check and replace (if necessary) your ETM. You can buy an upgraded part from the dealer (maybe - don't let the dealer flash your ECU with Volvo's band-aid software fix),
OK
from Xemodex, or you can even buy a fix kit on eBay. Replacing the ETM is an easy job you may be able to do yourself. (2) Replace the VVT pulley/hub.
One more thing, I guess. The problem you're having with your brakes may be yet another unrelated issue. Your car (probably) has a brake vacuum pump. I have no experience with these but your brake problem could be a failing vacuum pump or vacuum leak.
Righto. I just thought because the motor cuts out when I slow down, that was the cause of loss of power to the brakes.
Don't give up. When you finally fix these two or three issues your car will be transformed.
No, they can't!
They reset the CODES that they found. Who knows what "SET UP TIMING" means.
I did ask. They claimed they set it using the timing marks.
Hopefully it means they rotated the engine to put the crank and cams on the timing marks, though it may mean they monkeyed with the position of the VVT pulley. If they did, that was basically sabotage as your exhaust valve timing would then be messed up, which would be an additional problem on top of the VVT hub failure.
Oh dear.
The VVT solenoid is easy to get to. It's under the plastic covers on top of the engine.
OK, thanks for that, I haven't had time to study the workshop manual.
You will need a Torx T30 socket (I think) to remove the Torx screws.
I'd have to go and buy one then.
'
After thinking more about your problems I'm not sure that disconnecting the VVT solenoid will help, but it's easy to try and won't hurt anything.
That's good to know.
You said your car is "hunting." Do you mean the engine revs will not stay steady?
That's right. Its computer is apparently searching for something it can't find.
If so, that may be your ETM (electronic throttle module).
The ETM warning has occasionally come on, along with the computer warning light.
You didn't say what year your V70
1999
is but early-2000s V70s and several other models had ETMs with a defective design from the factory. You can read more about that here.
Thanks....
I think the problem your car has with idling is more likely an ETM problem than a VVT problem. The "professionals" know very little about the ETM problem because it's a defect Volvo should have done a recall on but didn't. Instead they hushed it up. That organized crime thing again.
The prices you were quoted for parts are outrageous. The cost of that VVT pulley (1275363) here is about US$250.
Is it?? Goodness, I should have purchased one over the internet then!
This eBay seller is a Volvo dealer (tascaparts.com) and they ship worldwide.
Thank you. I'll check that out in a minute. The quote says 'VVT Hub and Seal'. So they have to replace the pulley too but they haven't mentioned it?
This site is a great resource.
I'll save that.
Also, join volvoforums.org.uk. There's a much higher level of knowledge on that forum than there is here. At volvoforums.org.uk you can probably find a VVT pulley how-to to give to your independent mechanic. It's actually not a difficult job but it's essential to have a special cam-locking tool, Volvo or aftermarket.
So....I would: (1) check and replace (if necessary) your ETM. You can buy an upgraded part from the dealer (maybe - don't let the dealer flash your ECU with Volvo's band-aid software fix),
OK
from Xemodex, or you can even buy a fix kit on eBay. Replacing the ETM is an easy job you may be able to do yourself. (2) Replace the VVT pulley/hub.
One more thing, I guess. The problem you're having with your brakes may be yet another unrelated issue. Your car (probably) has a brake vacuum pump. I have no experience with these but your brake problem could be a failing vacuum pump or vacuum leak.
Righto. I just thought because the motor cuts out when I slow down, that was the cause of loss of power to the brakes.
Don't give up. When you finally fix these two or three issues your car will be transformed.
#6
05-01-2012, 07:33 PM
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Should I take it that disconnecting the VVT solenoid should stop the car from 'hunting'? I got the timing belt changed as well as that VVT hub. I read somewhere here that the timing belt should be changed at 70,000, not 105,000, so I thought I may as well let them do the hub as well. As you suspected, it hasn't made one iota of difference to the 'hunting' problem. It's very upsetting.
#7
05-01-2012, 10:32 PM
I got the timing belt changed as well as that VVT hub. I read somewhere here that the timing belt should be changed at 70,000, not 105,000, so I thought I may as well let them do the hub as well. As you suspected, it hasn't made one iota of difference to the 'hunting' problem. It's very upsetting.
The ETM has a design defect from the factory. You can replace the ETM with a Volvo part or you can buy an upgraded ETM from Xemodex. It's not a big job so while the part is expensive the labor cost should not be too bad. When this has been done your car problems should be over (for a while).
Edit: there's also an eBay seller selling the contactless throttle position sensor that's needed to repair your ETM. Why don't you contact him and see if there's someone in Australia who can repair your ETM using the eBay part.
Last edited by migbro; 05-01-2012 at 11:01 PM.
#8
05-02-2012, 04:01 AM
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Volvo V70
Yes, that is exactly what it's doing. Thank you.
No it won't. Different problem.
It's impossible to properly diagnose a problem like this remotely and I am not a Volvo guru. However, there's a very good chance your problem is the ETM (Electronic Throttle Module). Take a look at this Youtube video. Is that the problem you have on your car? Do a Youtube search for Volvo ETM. See what you learn.
The ETM has a design defect from the factory. You can replace the ETM with a Volvo part or you can buy an upgraded ETM from Xemodex. It's not a big job so while the part is expensive the labor cost should not be too bad. When this has been done your car problems should be over (for a while).
Edit: there's also an eBay seller selling the contactless throttle position sensor that's needed to repair your ETM. Why don't you contact him and see if there's someone in Australia who can repair your ETM using the eBay part.
It's impossible to properly diagnose a problem like this remotely and I am not a Volvo guru. However, there's a very good chance your problem is the ETM (Electronic Throttle Module). Take a look at this Youtube video. Is that the problem you have on your car? Do a Youtube search for Volvo ETM. See what you learn.
The ETM has a design defect from the factory. You can replace the ETM with a Volvo part or you can buy an upgraded ETM from Xemodex. It's not a big job so while the part is expensive the labor cost should not be too bad. When this has been done your car problems should be over (for a while).
Edit: there's also an eBay seller selling the contactless throttle position sensor that's needed to repair your ETM. Why don't you contact him and see if there's someone in Australia who can repair your ETM using the eBay part.
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