Hello John & Everyone,

I wish Craftsman could reduce their price by 20~30% if possible, so that more people can afford them. In case of Snap-on, their price should be reduced by at least 50%, as long as they can still manufacture in the U.S. Lately, I see more innovative & attractive tools from Craftsman than from Snap-on,soCraftsman might be getting serious about taking some of Snap-on's market share. It is strange, that Craftsman is almost nameless in Japan, even though their quality & pricecould becompetitive in Japan.

>Agilent (HP) and Tektronix also make some excellent
>test equipment but are far too expensive for the average
>home hobbyist or mechanic.

I never thought I would see the name "Agilent" on this forum! I once worked at NEC's(one of the electronics giants in Japan) R&D centre in Japan, and many of the top-end precision optical fibre testing equipment were of Agilent (Spectrum Analyzers, Sampling Oscilloscopes, etc...). At my aviation college (Southern Illinois University), we had oscilloscopes made by Tektronix. But even a small bench equipment could cost well over a thousand $, and the Agilent products we used to use at NEC were well over $10,000 or more.

I once opened the back of my Fluke and the primary LSI was made in Japan, but the rest of the components were made in USA. Even though my Fluke 112 is an entry-level model, it was still about $150, and the accessories were not cheap either. But I still trust American quality so I went for it. Fluke also has 3 models of DMM's that are specificallydesigned for automotive technicians, but they are $$$, even the low-end model was something like $300.....So far my 112 has been sufficient for the most part, so I'll stick with it for a while. However, I believe Craftsman's $50~$70 DMM's are excellent for home mechanics if they don't have one yet. I would avoid anything less than $50 though, as the functions are limited and may not be sufficient to service modern vehicles full of electronics.

Asfor socket tools, I would go for 6-point, rather than 12-point (unless the bolts/nuts are of 12-point as well). 12-point sockets give you more accessibilities, especially in tight quarters, but they have more tendency to round-off fasteners than 6-point's. Most name brand tools now have "Flank-Drive" design, so there is less chance of rounding off fasteners (though it still happens once a while). I like chrome-plated tools but they get slippery with oil/grease. Due to this fact, I heard that diesel technicians stay away from chromic tools.

There isone big advantage to cheap tools. That is, you don't feel guilty about modifying them, so you can make your own special tools! You could perhaps grind down a wrench to make it thinner, so you can access crowded areas, or you could also bend them for easier access. This is where generic, no-name brand tools come in handy. On the other hand, one of my instructors at SIU (probably one of the top 3's in the world in regard to recipro-powered airplanes, his exams were close to impossible, the average on our final exam on aircraft carburetion was 40 out of 100!), modified some of his Snap-on tools.

As for SK tools, you can get an overview of them at:

http://www.skhandtool.com/productcatalog.cfm?tok=1

SK tools are name-brand, so the quality should be as good as any. I never used their tools and am not sure what the price figures are, but if they are less expensive than Craftsman, SK could be a good alternative as well as Harbor Freight.

When it comes to tools, I can go on forever....


JPN

 

Hi JPN and others,

Craftsman seems to be pursuing a more professional status in
the tool world, especially with some of the new Craftsman products
which imitate many of the high end tools.
SK is also handled by Sears I believe. I was wondering if anyone
has had experience with SK and how the SK tools compare with
other tool brands.
I think Craftsman tools have been a succesful product for Sears
and they want to expand on that success.
JPN you have a very diverse range of knowledge and experience.
When I saw " General Radiotelephone License" under your post
I thought you must be involved in electronics also. You have
done some very interesting work at NEC I'm sure.
I agree with the purchase of a good meter if you can afford one.
The inexpensive meters I have bought in the past have always failed
or gone out of calibration just when I needed them. Its better to
buy one good meter rather than 4 cheap ones and then 1 good
one.
I'm really time limited so I'm having to make this short.

PS I also have a General Radiotelephone License but
that's a story for another time...

Best regards, John

 

Hello John,

I hope you're well.

Yes, a few SK tools are handled by Sears, as I see them in Craftsman catalog. To this day, I haven't had a chance to use SK tools, so I cannot comment on them, though they seem good.

FCC-GROL was a part of my education at Southern Illinois University. The test questions were available in public, so all I needed to do was to memorize the correct answers. Anyone who puts in time would be able to get the license, so I wouldn't dare say I'm an expert in electronics. I only know the very basics, such as testing resistors, diodes, capacitors, transistors, voltage, current, frequency and visually inspecting boards for cracks, burns, poor soldering, metallic foreign objects, etc.... But the quality of education at SIU was top-notch, I was able to understand the basics in digital electronics (mostly binaries, logic gates, etc...).

At NEC, I was fortunate to deal with fibre optics. I was only a part-timer and was assisting in under-ocean, giga-bit network systems. What I did consisted of; measuring fibre optics' signal loss, splicing fibre with plasma-splicer, testing signal polarity patterns, etc... Many tasks were beyond my comprehension, as the full-timers were all from Japan's top universities' engineering department with at least Master's degrees. But I tried my best and grasped the basics in fibre optics. Like many people on this forum or at technical work environment, I learn with my hands first, and the theories come afterward.

Anyway, as to electrical/electronic test equipment for automotive use, Fluke is definitely the best, if one can afford it. As for OBD-II scanners, Actron seems to be beating Fluke. But for most home-mechanics or even some professional automotive technicians, Craftsman's DMM's are good choice, as long asthey're $70-$100 models (and preferably made in USA).

BTW, I hope the forum gets back to where it used to be. Right now I can see much less posts per page, and it's inconvenient. I wonder if the administrator is experimenting something or in the process of upgrading the server.

Cheers,


JPN

 

Hi everyone,

Here is a company that has some unusual tools:

http://www.generaltools.com/8-k

They have inspection mirrors, screw starters, pickup tools, etc.
I have one of their offset ratchet screwdrivers that I have had for
years- a very handy tool for light work in limited spaces.

JPN your FCC license is no small achievement not to mention
your education at SIU and work at NEC.
I had a couple of friends that were DJs in the central FL radio
market right out of high school. They had easy jobs ( I thought)
so I got my license. I started playing records on a local station
then became a broadcast engineer here for a few years. I decided
to go to Nashville as a recording engineer but things fell through
with a lady I was going to move in with, so I stayed here and
ended up in my current field. ( Sounds like a soap opera plot
LOL).
I hope some more people have tool information, this section
of the forums is kind of desolate.
I had a little more time this morning, our trip has been moved
back a day or two.

Best regards, John

 

Hello All,

Just wanted to share with you some Japanese tools:

KTC (Targeting Snap-on in quality & innovation)
http://www.kyototool.co.jp/english/index.html

Ko-ken (Specializing in socket tools)
http://www.koken-tool.co.jp/en/

Vessel (Famous for robust screwdrivers)
http://www.vessel.jp/


Recent Technologies in Tools:

1. Open-end wrenches:
Snap-on came up with a design called "Flank-Drive", both in regular wrenches & sockets, as well as in open-end wrenches. In general, open-end wrenches (spanners) should not be used on high-torque applications, as they are likely to strip the corners of a fastener. Snap-on came up with Flank-drive design for open-end wrenches, where open-ends have serrations to "bite" into fasteners. This allows you to apply high-torque without stripping nuts & bolts. Lately, Craftsman has been coming up with unique designs as well, which seem different from Snap-on's but the basic theory seems to be the same.

2. Screwdrivers:
"ACR", or Anti-Cam out Ribdesign for Phillips seems a major innovation. Each wing of a Phillips end has serrations, allowing better grip on screws. Also, some screwdrivers have a metal striking head that is directly connected to the blade. This allows you to apply impact while trying to turn a frozen screws.

3. Hammers:
The modern trend is shock-absorbing, or dead-blow design, where rebound is suppressed while multiplying impact force onto the object you're striking. This is done by either a number of discs or metal particlesinside the head moving back & forth.

4. Digital Torque Wrenches:
Snap-on calls them "Tech-wrench". These torque wrenches have electronic mechanism, which gives you digital reading via LCD on the handle, as well as easy conversion from ft-lbs, in-lbs, Newton-Meter, etc... The price? You probably don't want to know.

Speculations on OBD-III:
OBD-III seems to be on its way sometime in the near future. I am assuming that OBD-III contains Drive Data Recorder, similar to aircraft's flight data recorder. The system records various parameters of the vehicle (speed, acceleration, heading direction, etc...) at the time of accident, and I am thinking that this may be what OBD-III is all about, allowing access to the data stored in the ECU (scanners available only to law-enforcement officers & lawyers? Imagine lawyers trying to access codes with a scanner). Anyone has better/accurate info on OBD-III?

John,

Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it. In regard to electronic system-related problems, you're the one to rely on. I plan to try for GROL's Ship Radar Endorsement section, which is another addition to my resume. Someday when I have a chance, I'd also like to try ASE. Many systems between automobiles & aircraft are similar. As a matter of fact, recent electronics seem to be more advanced in automobiles and small business-jets rather than larger passenger airplanes.

I visited local Sears a couple of days ago and browsed around all the tools, I wish I could afford more of them. Additionally, I looked Craftsman multimeters, and even the top-end models ($100 and up) were made in ..... I'll stick to my Fluke.

You're right, this part of the forum does seem quiet, I guess many people would just want toask their vehicle-specific questions, get helpand run!!! Just kidding.

Have a good week,


Kanji, aka JPN

 

Hi everyone,

I may have to remove some parts of my car that would require use
of a torque wrench. I wonder if anyone has had experience with
some of the more inexpensive wrenches. Specifically I'm wondering
whether a "beam type" wrench will be accurate enough or whether
the "clicker type" is necessary. Also are there any brands that are
best in this price range (<$75)?

I found the following link where the author actually tested the
accuracy of different types and brands of torque wrenches:

http://home.jtan.com/~joe/KIAT/kiat_3.htm

I also found the following user reviews for Craftsman torque
wrenches. I was surprised at the low ratings users gave for
some of the "clicker type" wrenches:

http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_Tools-All-Craftsman_Torque_Wrench_1_2_in_Drive_44597/display_~reviews
http://www.epinions.com/hmgd-Shop_Tools-All-Craftsman_Torque_Wrench_3_8_in_Drive_44593/display_~reviews

Any comments on the above would be greatly appreciated.

Kanji, the links to the Japanese tool companies were very
interesting-they have several innovations that would be nice
on the tools here in the US. You really keep up with tool
technology, your listing of recent tool technology is excellent.
I don't even want to think about the implications of OBD-3
data logging. Will we also have attorneys trying to disallow
data because the manufacturer will not provide source code
for their data collection algorithms? What a mess LOL.
There used to be a FCC Radiotelegraph Operators License
also for shipboard radio operators. I don't know if it still exists
but that is a challenge- it combines the technical knowledge
of the Radiotelephone License with a proficiency requirement
in Morse code. It's twice as hard because of that. One of my
friends had gotten both of those licenses and originally planned
to join the Merchant Marine before he started at the stations.
Thanks for your kind compliments but there are many people
on the forums that know more than I do, I can only post
on a very limited range of topics. That's why I ask so many
questions.

Best wishes, John

 

I like the clicker type better.
I have a SK clicker type.

 

Hi All,

As for torque wrench, the best one I know is either of the following:
Hazet (German)
http://www.hazet.de/eng/index.htm

Tohnichi (Japanese)
http://www.tohnichi.co.jp/english/index.html

Unfortunately, both of the above may have problem with availability & calibration servicing inNorth America,and I assume the price is out the roof. But the quality should be assuring, as Hazet is the official tool mfg for many European auto manufacturers, and Tohnichi is the same for Japanese industrial applications.

Proto used to have a good reputation on torque wrenches, but not sure if they still do:
http://www.stanleyproto.com/default....tCatalog=PROTO

My fellow tech Mr. Jim Sherman in Vermont* uses the following:
http://www.all-spec.com/start/utica.html

*Jim is a fully-certified Master ASE, with a number of factory training certificates, especially in Saab.Jim's URL currently seems to be under upgrading, etc...

As for Craftsman toque wrenches, I have a Digitork ($100) 1/2" drive, and did not like it. It has readings in both ft-lbs and Newton Meter, which is handy but I didn't like the design and the way it felt clicking. The ones that have poor reputation are the regular Craftsman, Craftsman Professional Series seem to have better (and more $) torque wrenches, you may want to visit local Sears and grab their free brochure.

If M. Tech is using SK torque wrench, you can't go wrong but I just checked the price and ....

http://www.skhandtool.com/productcat...token=34907502

I would stay away from beam-type, as they are not very accurate and you have to "pull" on the handle when using, definitely a minus in confined/dark areas (I would save and buy better clicker-type than get a beam-type). However, they are less expensive than other types. Dial-types seem to be the most accurate & pricey, but I haven't seen any automotive/aircraft technician using them. Clicker-type seems to be the most popular, but the quality greatly varies from mfg to mfg. At $75 or less, it is difficult to find a good clicker-type, except may be on eBay. I've been using Snap-on, and I would rate it 7 out of 10. I bought it for $100 under student discount, but the regular price is about $200.

John,

Thanks for the info on FCC Radar Rating. I have the cheater book, so I can cram my head with answers and a several (or more) head-banging against the wall will do. It makes me laugh to imagine lawyers in formal attire hooking up an OBD-III scanner on a car and start pulling codes...[8D] I think OBD-II is enough.

Have a good weekend.


JPN

 

Thanks tech and JPN,

It looks like the SK clicker is what I should get . I think it may be a
while before I can afford one.
We are leaving in the morning so I have to get out of here- maybe
we'll get a big order and come back with a lot of money..( just
dreaming).

Thanks to both of you and take care, John

 

Hi John,

I wish you the best with your business order.

I just looked at SK's torque wrenches, and I would recommend that you buy the most versatile (the one that covers wide range) one, if you plan to buy only one. I feel that one of the following would be a good choice:

1. 3/8" drive, P/N: 74104
2. 1/2" drive, P/N: 74150
3. 1/2" drive, P/N: 74151

I have no clue why there is a price difference between 74150 & 74151, even though their specs seem to be the same. But any of the above seems to cover the ranges required for many services, I personally would check the difference between the two 1/2" drive units and get one of them.

I use two Snap-on torque wrenches, one is a 1/4" drive, covering 40" lbs to 200" lbs, while the other one is a 3/8" drive, the range is 200" lbs to 1,000" lbs. I also use a calculator to get ft-lbs conversion.

I wish you buy a good SK torque wrench. I would ask M. Tech to see which model he uses.

Good night.


JPN

 

I had Cronwell before and they were good… Guys, do you know something any better and cheaper than this Volvo cargo liner? I was looking forward to have a good one this week for my mom.