I have a 2004 S60 2.4. Bought it with 4,000 miles as a demo car - now it has 117,000.

It has a rattling sound underneath that gets louder as you press the accelerator. Thought it might be a heat shield...dealer says...alas, no. It's ceramic inside the catalytic converter breaking off and rattling around and likely more will come off over time.

The bill is pretty epic:

New catalytic converter $1875
2 new oxygen sensors $630
An engine mount is broken $180
120,000 maintenance $1800-2000 (incl. new water pump)
Control-arm bushings $700 (approx)

Oh, and new wiper blades The bushings estimate is about six months old - I haven't done it yet.

I knew the 120,000 maintenance was coming up and would be expensive due to the timing belt. But otherwise...man!

The car is otherwise in good shape, except for the back seat which has major tears and rips due to dog claws...I have a kevlar cover over it now but it's ugly underneath. If I wanted to fix that, the forum here once guesstimated $500-700 for salvage yard seat. But it doesn't bother me. Or the dog :-)

Kelly book is about $2800-3800 for Fair condition.

I'd be happy to drive it for another 100K - all I need is basic transpo. But I'm afraid this is the start of a long slide into repairland and wondering if I should take that money and buy a new car. Not that I have $5500 sitting around...

 

What the hell are they including in the 120k that runs $2000?!

 

Drive it till it fails then junk it. I might have the timing belt done.

I usually check NADAGuides.com for values.

 

working at a dealer i see that kind of money spent on volvos all of the time. volvos are great cars if you are willing to spend the money on them. so no do not drive it till it fails. fix what needs to be fixed to get another 5 -10 years out of it.

 

Unfortunately, the quote just says "will need 120,000 mile service with timing belt replacement". The guy I spoke to said they replace the water pump as well.

My concern is more along the lines of $5000 now, and then what will it be next year. I don't mind paying for routine maintenance, but...

 

Find out what is included in that, because that is high. Spark plugs are due (around $140), pollen filter (around $100), oil change (around $40), tire rotation (as needed- can't be much). On the 2004, the timing belt is part of the 105,000 mile service, but if they do it at 120,000, it should be around $800 including the water pump and serpentine belt.

Some dealers like to add their own stuff to the services, but you may not need them. If you are okay putting money into it, I would do the cat and oxygen sensors, control arms and alignment, timing belt (water pump is up to you), spark plugs if they haven't been done in 60,000 miles and the oil change. Hopefully they aren't charging labor for the oxygen sensors if being done with the cat.

The engine mount is likely the top engine mount. Not going to cause a major issue. Labor should partially overlap with spark plug replacement as well.

 

i know what you mean. the thing with volvos is if you neglet the cars needs even the slightest bit, the cost will add up FAST. once again, working at a volvo dealer i see it all the time.
you need to prioritize everything. in my mind the the cat will need to be replaced first to. you may be able to reuse the o2 sensors but you never know. the main part of a 120k is the timing belt replacement so you can just do that. other parts to the service are fuel filter,spark plugs,pcv service and things like those.
the control arm bushings and motor mounts can wait a little bit compared to everything else

 

Man this is why i DIY

Quick question to OP; why are you taking a 10 year old car worth maybe $4K to the dealer for routine service? No disrespect to our dealer techs here (I was one once) but you should find a good local indy shop that specializes in volvo; would save you at least 40% over dealer prices.

 

this is why i think people bring volvos is to dealers for people like me to get work done is they trust us and our knowledge on volvos. no offense to anyone but most of the time that is the case. there has been plenty of times that a customer takes a car to an independent and they end up bringing it to me to fix what the other shop messed up.

 

Paying twice for the same job, ouch! That usually doesn't happen if the shop is a indi Volvo shop.

Some things can be done at home as GDog said. Clean it up real good and trade the darn thing in if you can't work on it yourself. $140 For spark plug replacement? Really? I pay the price for OEM plugs @ $45 a set, I guess 1 hour to install them is not bad but a pro should be able to install them in 30 minutes. I never thought of it costing $140 to change plugs. Heck, what do I think is included in a $500 tune up. :/

Again, if you're not going to turn a wrench, drive it into the ground or trade it in.

 

i've seen plenty of indy shops work coming to the shops ive worked at. granted they dont come by all of the time but it still happens.
just because we can change spark plus in 30 minutes (takes me about 10-15 minutes)doesnt mean we are gonna charge half an hour of labor. customers pay for the price that volvo recommeds (or 150% of volvos recommended warranty time for customer pay)not the speed of the technician.

 

personally if I knew the history (as you do) of the car and know it had been maintained I would not hesitate putting loot into the car.
even if you spend the 5k and say the car lasts even another 5 years that's 1k a year to drive that car.....83.00 dollars a month....as opposed to a car payment....

 

Damien is right, we are paid on book time, not actual time. Plugs on a non turbo can be done in 10 minutes, easily. That doesn't mean the dealer (or an independent shop for that matter) charges 10 minutes.

And by your logic, if you can't fix or maintain something yourself, you should not have it maintained and just keep using it until it is destroyed? Wow. Great advice.

I agree with urbino. You are familiar with the history of the car so maintaining it would be less than a car payment. And if you got a used car instead, you may not have the service history.

 

EST6, are you EVER going to get over me blowing you up several months ago? You're like a baby's moma. I never advised anyone to NOT take care of their car. This is a unique circumstance that the OP is in, he's behing the curve. If it was one thing or another, sure, put the money in it and keep going. When you find yourself upside down on issues that can cause a break down, cut bait or run it into the ground.

Also, I have no problem with people taking their cars to the OEM dealer to have their car serviced or repaired. I did it for years, until my local dealer tried to stick it to me. That's when I decided to move on. My old 740 wasn't good enough to be serviced there. After that I took my car to indi shops that SPECIALIZED in Volvo's. I did some minor things myself and when I didn't have the time, skills or tools to fool with it I took it to the shop.

I know most dealer/shop mechanics do NOT have control over what a shop charges to fix things (shop hours/time). It's kind of sad that a person can take there car to the shop for an oil change and get the "you need to do this list" tossed at them. Then the owner agrees to do 6 of the 8 things and every 20 minute job gets a seperate hour charge to have the work done.
- Spark plugs 15 minutes
- Coolant flush 45 minutes
- Pollen filter change 10 minutes
- Oil & filter change 12 minutes
- Door switch pack change 8 minutes
- Antenna mast replacement 25 minutes
= Real time, 1 hour 55 minutes. Shop time 6 hours. Ouch!!!

Again, I know you mechanics don't control that and don't get to put the $125 per hour shop time in your pockets so please don't take it personal.

And just for the record, we are all human and make mistakes, some more than others. Usually depends on our stress level and other distractions that life tosses at us. There has been more than one occasion that I went behind a dealer mechanic and fixed something that they missed or messed up. And yes I did have them write me a check in excess or $900 before.

I still stand by my statement of trade it or drive it into the ground. If you fix all of those things tomorrow, next week it will be something else with a car that is more than 10 years old and over 120,000 miles. From what I have read the post 2000 Volvos cost about $2,200 per year to keep on the road at the dealer. That is in line with most luxary cars. Met a lady not long ago that had put about $6,200 in her '01 Infiniti in 14 months. Another lady that put over $5,500 in her C320 MB in 8 months and still had the same random stalling problem. Old cars can be tough to hold on to.

If you can save a few bucks by going to an indi shop for basic things by all means do so. Doesn't take a Volvo specialist to change spark plugs or do a CV axle. But by all means, if the car has random stalling or some other programming issue, you are much better off at the dealer.

 

This has nothing to do with the lofty claims you made, Robert.

You don't understand book times and labor rates if you think the shop charges 1 hour for every item. And if a shop does charge 1 hour for every item, they are a scam.

I understand what you are saying and I don't take it personally. However, even if I could control the labor times as a tech, why would I discount my time just because I have the tools, skills and expertise to do the job more efficiently than the standard time guide calls for?

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't charge 3 hours if you can do the PCV in 2, I'm more referring to shops that wont combine time when they have the car in there for several items. I'm sure some combine certain items, example, they wont charge shop time for replacing a serpentine belt when they are getting paid for a timing belt. Yes charge for the belt but not the time to pull it since it is OFF for the timing belt replacement, that would be nuts (a scam).

I don't totally understand how dealers run their shops, never worked at one. I just seen a few tickets here and there. They never explain it in a way for you to understand, just justify getting my money. The only time they back up is when they are caught making a mistake or feel sorry for throwing parts at the car.

I had a friend pay over $4,000 (dealer) to get a purge valve replaced on his Lexus. Kept telling him it was one thing or another. I guess purge valves don't fail that much on Lexus cars. When they finally got it figured out, they charged him cost for the part and didn't charge for installing it. Wow, the $4,000 didn't cover it?

 

Well, in thinking about it, if you are telling people they are being charged $125 per hour of work you are doing, then charging them 3 hours for 2 hours worth of work, are you not cheating them? I can see charing them for 4 hours if you run into an issue, like someone before you damaged something or a bolt stripped.

If the book says 3 hours and you find a bolt stripped, and you have to get special tools and take another hour to get the stripped bolt out. So the job takes 4 or 5 hours. Do you only charge 3 then?

 

+1 on that.

I would recommend getting a second opinion from an independent shop.

It's hard to recommend how much money YOU should spend doing maint and repair on your car as I don't know your situation. Do you think you'd be better off spending that money on a new used vehicle and what are the odds it wouldn't need maintenance or repair in the near future ??
Like Robert (Rspi) said you could drive it till the wheels fell off but I always hate the idea of driving a car to death but in some cases . . . I don't think yours is one of those cases. On today's cars hitting 120K is about where you'd expect a used car to be at.
I'm crazy upside down in my car. It started out as a 300 dollar beater with 250K on it with broken stuff and I've replaced and upgraded most everything and now have a spare engine and transmission too. Do I think it's worth the money, yup .. I like the car, it handles well and I know it's going to start when I turn the key and it will get me where I want to go as reliably as anything around me.
How nice is your car, you could always sell as is. After all, one of us guys who does that kind of work can see the value in buying a fixer upper. I'd still check to see how much lower an estimate you can find.
Any chance you know a guy who likes working on cars and might be capable and willing to do some of the repairs ?? If you check out rockauto on line the catalytic converters run around $180 and you're saying the est is $1600 ?? Even at dealer markup and dealer labor rates that's pushing it.

I'd do some more research on the repair and maintenance parts and labor costs and get a recommendation from friends, co-workers or family on a couple shops that come with good recommendations and compare estimates.

 

Overlapping labor (like the serpentine belt and timing belt example) is totally different and you are correct, a scam.

But the other example you gave of 6 totally separate jobs would not overlap. It also wouldn't be an hour charge for each.

The repair order specifically says that we use a standard times guide and therefore the actual time spent on a job may be more or less than the charged time. This is standard practice. If it wasn't this way and we charged by the actual time, what would stop someone from taking 3 hours to do a job that should take 45 minutes? Then they would get paid 3 hours to take 5 smoke breaks and take their sweet time.

And we don't make a killing on each job. Sure, there are jobs I can do in 10 minutes that pay an hour. But there are jobs that take 15 hours and pay 12. And yes, if we go over the time, we still only get paid the standard time.

If there is a broken bolt or other problem, it's case by case for me. If the customer bought a bunch of stuff and it is only going to take a half hour to drill out and tap, I'll just do it. If they aren't buying anything or its going to be much more involved, like removing an exhaust manifold and turbo to get access, then yes, there is a charge.

 

see you still arent fully understanding how we get paid. we charge 3 hours and if we finish it in aboutone and a half to two hours then we still get paid 3 hours and move on to the next car. its one of the benefits of working at a dealer. we are paid to work fast but still make sure that we do everything correctly. now if i charge 3 hours on a job and i am set back by a stripped bolt and it takes me 4 to 5 hours to finish, well i still only get paid 3 hours.