Hi I am an original owner of a Volvo XC90. I have a question about the health of my crankcase ventilation system. The dealerships here in Louisiana call it an "oil trap box". The dealer in Metairie, LA allegedly changed this "oil trap box" in 2013 40k miles ago. The dealer in Lafayette recommended a "cleaning" last week, and I paid $600 for it, and I did ask about a replacement or if it was ever even changed. I am attaching the video. Can someone tell me if my 2004 XC90's crankcase ventilation system is healthy, was it ever replaced, or if this could be the result of some other type of problem or no problem at all? Attached is the video in avi format.

 

The standard test for the PCV is to put a rubber glove over the fill cap (like a surgeons glove) if it inflates, you have a clogged PCV. With that said, you are getting smoke out of of the filler cap so you certainly have some blow by. Considering your earlier post showing sludge in the oil filter cover, it seems likely your lower end could be gunked up as well, so the full repair may need to start with dropping the oil pan and cleaning what can be cleaned from inside out. Since you already have gunk in the engine, another option to consider is a Seafoam treatment. Google Youtube for vids - and read up on discussion points before doing this. What Seafoam does is adds a whole lot of detergent to the oil to break down sludge. You'd add to the engine oil, run for about 100-300 miles (per Seafoamsales.com) then change the oil. The oil will come out black! Just be prepared to replace the PCV hoses just the same.

Once that is all done then you can see about getting the oil leaks buttoned up.

Good luck - MT

 

I did the rubber glove test and could not determine if there was a crankcase ventilation issue because the glove weakly puffs out and "vibrates" (it does not puff in and out from what I can tell), and at the time tried attaching that video but did not know that the site would not accept mp4. I also did the dipstick/smoke test at the same time, but did it when the engine was not hot. I tried doing the rubber glove test again and video taping it, but the glove broke, so I am having a hard time doing that particular test. My understanding is that smoke from the dipstick or oil filler cap was an acceptable test, but with the engine hot, not cold. Is that correct or not correct?

Regarding my earlier post on the other thread, showing sludge in the oil filter cover after Guy's Automotive allegedly did an oil change,.. I did try posting the oil on the dipstick after the oil filter cover/housing was cleaned and the oil was really changed, but for whatever reason, the site was not accepting my photos at the time. I will re-post. Wouldn't the oil dipstick test tell me how dirty my oil really is, and if there is sludge making my oil dirty faster? As I discussed in the previous thread regarding my oil leak, I am the original owner and have always paid to change my oil at recommended intervals, sometimes sooner, when they would let me. So if there is a sludge build up in my engine, wouldn't I see it somewhere, without having to now pay someone to drop the oil pan? (The Volvo dealership in Lafayette did not want to, or see a need to, drop my oil pan, when they fixed my oil leak and allegedly fixed/cleaned my crankcase ventilation system.)

I have no oil leaks, that has been repaired but as discussed in the oil leak thread, what remains a concern is whether my Volvo XC90's crankcase ventilation system is healthy because like you said, if it is not, it can throw out a cam seal and cause another leak.

Additionally, I am not seeing sludge and the sludge may have just been in the oil filter housing because Guy's Automotive never changed the oil, which they did not. That was discussed in the oil leak thread. So that is why I am attaching the photos to see if someone can tell me, based on what you have said in this thread, and the photos I am posting, do i likely have sludge in my engine or in the oil pan? Is this dipstick reading the sign after the mileage i put in my car, of a normal reading?

This is my oil dipstick on 9-27-2019 after Guy's Automotive allegedly did an oil change

This is my oil dipstick on 10-6-2019 after i witnessed a real oil change on 10-5-2019, and the sludge was cleaned out of the oil filter housing, which should have been done at the prior oil change.

This is my oil dipstick on 10-21-2019. 517 miles have been put on the car since the oil was last changed (on 10-5-2019).

Oil filler cap opened with engine off. I see residue and carbon? and relatively clean oil but I see no "sludge". Will attach napkin photo.

10-21-2019 Residue on napkin from oil filler cap

 

the fill cap isn't the best I've seen... staining is normal - for example our 850T had 200K+ miles and the metal visible from the filler was brownish - but there was nothing that could be scraped off with a finger nail and yours looks like you'd be able to chip away some hard stuff. Note on my 850 I had a similar experience where the PCV kit was installed but the tech failed to rod out the ports on the lower end and it required a redo as I was still getting positive pressure even with all new hoses/separator... In that car, the filler looked normal but the lower ports were gunked up and I was meticulous about changing the oil every 3000 miles for the life of the car. Note even with dirty oil in the car, I would not expect gunk or sediment in the bottom of the filter cover. That's why I'm thinking you may need to have the oil pan dropped for an inspection and cleaning (and if you do that, ask the shop about replacing the oil pump o-rings ).

At this point you have a couple of choices - 1) you can simply decide to replace the leaky rear cam seals and hope the crank case pressure isn't enough to push out the main seals or the front seals 2) You can try a Seafoam treatment to flush out any gunk - but there's a chance some gunk can wind up in the PCV system 3) You can have the shop drop the oil pan, inspect and clean to make sure there's no accumulation of gunk that can cause the PCV system to be "weak" and worse cause lower than standard oil pressure 4) You can have the PCV system redone - new parts where needed and have the block ports cleaned 5) replace the leaky seals after all the PCV and clean up work is done.

One question - how bad is your oil leak? is it simply a case of driveway spotting and a dirty block or do you need to add a quart more often than every 1000 miles?

 

My 2004 XC90 has 120K miles. Well the oil fill cap is what it is - I have been doing my oil changes like I have supposed to and more frequently when I could. The bigger concern is the crankcase ventilation system. The Lafayette dealer last week fixed the oil leak, but they did not apparently fix the crankcase ventilation system. I did go out and buy another glove today and I was able to successfully do the test that you recommended in this string. I will attach the photo but converting and attaching a video is a hassle...maybe later. I really do not think I have sludge on the bottom of the oil pan (although it is possible) - I did do some homework and my car has no symptoms of an oil sludge build up - the sludge was a result of not having an oil change or not having the oil fill cap or oil filter housing cleaned out by the business who claimed that they did the last oil change.

So I will attach the photos with explanations. I think it is self-explanatory.

Are you saying that Louisiana Volvo dealers have no obligation to stand by the work that they recommend and that I (me) should re-pay for this crankcase ventilation system to be replaced and done correctly?

My 10-25-2013 Invoice where this Oil trap box, or crankcase ventilation box, was allegedly replaced and serviced properly. My car had 82k miles. It now has 120k miles.

The 10-15-2019 recommendation by the mechanic at Giles Volvo in Lafayette at 120k miles after I inquired about the health of the crankcase ventilation system. I did show them my 2013 invoice and asked them about it and asked that if it was really done or done right if I should be having crankcase ventilation issues (?).

My 10-16-2019 Invoice for the oil leak and the crankcase and throttle cleaning that THEY recommended. I asked for a new PCV system and it is not my job to tell these Volvo mechanics or techs how to do a PCV repair/cleaning/replacement or whatever. But I did ask. The oil leak is fixed but not the other issue and that is my concern as well as the concern of the person on this forum site who advised me to inquire about this crankcase matter.


A photo of the crankcase glove test done today. I went out and got another glove and did the test this evening.. It stands up. It does not appear that the crankcase system was done correctly to me.

 

I did do some homework on this sludge issue - and just because a mechanic failed to do my oil change and also clean the oil filter housing, doesn't mean my oil pan is trapped with sludge. My 2004 XC90 does not have any of these symptoms: https://m.driving-tests.org/beginner...engine-sludge/
and I have definitely regularly paid for oil changes, and I don't want to go paying someone else to drop my oil pan to see (nor did the Lafayette Volvo Dealer recommend a dropping of the oil pan when I went in for service last week and I did ask about that when you mentioned it to me), until I see that the last 2 people that I paid to repair my crankcase ventilation system as per their recommendations, actually fixed/cleaned/replaced/whatever it.

 

So I am back in Lafayette. I have spoken with the Service Manager and the head mechanic and they are looking at my car. He did the test with their gadget and there is no crankcase pressure - no movement either way. There is definitely an issue there. We agreed there was no sludge. They said it could also be piston damage but we did not see a loss of oil from my last dipstick reading which is on this thread and I had a photo on my phone. I did not see any loss of oil even when I had an oil leak and I kept checking it. I do not have signs of piston damage based on what I have read online (poor acceleration or performance or exhaust smoke), except one site says rattling could be a symptom, and the only possible symptom is a rattling noise after engine is started and idling, but not when i am driving, or sitting in traffic or at a stop sign or light or when the engine is warm. Then he explained it can take a long time to get a reading on oil loss from possible piston damage. I explained that you said that if they did not "rod out the ports", that there could still be a problem. He said it could be the vacuum line which is not normally replaced and that could be clogged up.

Any further input?

 

So I left about an hour ago (the car was there maybe 2 hours) and before i left, the mechanic had his gadget with him and there was still no pressure and the reading was the same, but he said that is normal (i did not understand that from him earlier). He said that newer cars have a reading in the negative but for a car that is 16 yrs old, with 120k miles, this reading is normal. That's what he later said. I started the engine to check and there was no blow by gases coming out of the oil filler cap with the engine running. However, when I did the glove test the glove sucked air in, and not out. Attached is the photo. I asked why it wasn't puffing in and out like I thought it was supposed to and the service advisor said it's not supposed to. So he (the mechanic) did something to reverse the pressure. He did not say what he did. (The service advisor did say you definitely do not want air puffing out the whole time which is what it was doing before I got there).

I have driven the car around a little and I still did not see blow by gases coming out of the oil filler cap or the dipstick.

 

Thats correct, if the glove inflates, there's positive pressure (bad) that needs to vent. If the glove sucks in or flutters in and out, thats good, as its a sign that the intake vacuum is pulling the PCV gasses out of the crank and as noted a good working system should have a slightly negative pressure or very small. So if that gives you the confidence that the PCV is functioning you can go about getting the rear cam seals refreshed

 

I don't know what he did - whether he changed the vacuum line or routed out the ports or did something else - but I am now getting better gas mileage, too. I have been complaining about that problem for a few years. My gas mileage was as bad as 13-16 mpg city and 17-21mpg hwy. It's getting what it is supposed to get now.

They fixed the rear cam seals last week, before making sure the PCV was functioning properly, but thank you for warning me to have this fixed. Good thing bc must have been high mileage or wrong oil that the dealers here use, that caused those rear cam seals to go out in my car- not the PCV system, and that is a good thing.

I was bothered that when I brought the car back yesterday am, they said it was likely piston damage that was causing the blow by gases and positive pressure. While that may be remotely possible, then why wasn't I given an estimate for repairing the pistons when I brought the car in last week? I was very thorough on the sheet I filled out about what symptoms the car was having (bad gas mileage and brief rattling noise when engine idle and cold but no other warning lights, knocking, or performance issues or exhaust smoke, etc). And if I do have any piston damage, I will blame it on the Volvo dealerships and a few mechanics for putting the wrong oil in my car for so many years. If they put in parts that did not even go in an XC90, which they did and I later had to have fixed, then anything is possible.

But it appears they fixed it and I am greatful it was not the PCV system causing the rear cam seals to leak, because if it was it would have just re-blown them out.

I hope these service managers in these Volvo Dealerships around here start getting on top of the issues going on in their dealerships...looks like the one in Lafayette is. And it is ridiculous that I had to drive 2 1/2 hours away and pay for travel expenses twice, to get the 2 matters addressed.

 

All the volvos that I have had walked out the rear cam seals sooner or later. I am not sure what causes that, but certainly it's not crankcase pressure. You'd need 10,000 times that much pressure to move that seal just by brute force. I guess that there is just a tiny bit of occasional movement during heat/cool cycles and they come out.

If that car was mine, I should like to have all the tubing replaced in the PCV system. It does not last forever. They didn't charge you any parts, so I would vote replace everything. We DIY guys replace the box pretty often, but it's not the box that is the problem. it's all the rubber hoses that have crud going through them for years on end.

 

The rubber hoses were allegedly replaced by the Metairie, La dealer in October, 2013 at 82k miles (it now has 120k miles)...i posted that invoice earlier in the string, and the part numbers are listed.. They justified this recommendation saying that I had an oil leak on the invoice, which I did not have. I was advised to do it. so I did it then.