1987 Volvo 240 dl - Not Starting, Battery drain, Alternator issue, SOmething else??

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Old 06-21-2012, 04:19 PM
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Default 1987 Volvo 240 dl - Not Starting, Battery drain, Alternator issue, SOmething else??

Safe to say I was ignorant buying this car, A Volvo 1987 station wagon. First car, too ignorant to negotiate. 159 000 miles on the broken odometer so i would guess 200,000 Lesson 1. Bring a friend. Whatever. Dealing with it now.

So driving back having bought it from a private seller on Craigslist the timing belt went and I was stranded. Towed to nearest mechanics and charged $100 to diagnose what was already obvious - timing belt. Quote of $300 to fix. $100 for the belt and $200 for the labor. Waited 2 days. Downloaded the very useful instructions here:
240 timing belt
and went to O'Reillys to get the part $20.
Having resolved to do it myself I was making decent headway in the parking lot of the mechanics up until I had to remove the camshaft pulley (step 7 on the guide above) Unlike as in the guide my camshaft pulley only has one large central bolt rather that 4 separate ones. I could not give it enough torque without the whole camshaft pulley rotating, thereafter paid $200 for the mechanic to finish the job ... using an impact gun/wrench he got it off no problem. I was able to drive it home within 1 hour. No problems starting up after being parked at the mechanics for 2 days.
Question 1: How can i get the camshaft pulley off myself without the impact gun? Please see picture 1. I will need to get it off when I check the alternator.


So I got home and the car has a kill switch which I engaged.
Next morning I went to start it up. Starter would go 'Crank' but engine would not fire. I kept trying to get it to start until the battery was obviously out of juice and absolutely nothing would happen when I turned on the ignition.

Thinking that the battery had died because I had left my lights on or something I waited for friends to get home and tried jump starting it with no avail. Friends etc all poking around in the engine, fiddling basically. Finally I remember that I had engaged the kill switch. With juice in the battery from the jump start it started fine!

I am stupid. Anyway. NOW the problem is is I leave the car for an hour or less and it will not start. Sometimes all that happens is the 'beeping' from the seat belt warning flashes. Sometimes not even that. Just soul destroying silence.

It jump started fine just now. I drove for 10mins. Parked. WOuld not start. Came inside to write this. I went out 30 minutes later to check a random hose in the engine that i wanted to ask about. One that seems loose to me. I pulled it off to photograph and put it back on. Decided may as well try to start...started fine?!

Pic of tube here? What is it? Is it supposed to be this loose, it literally almost pops of when i brush it...




Indicating:
I would like to say...
i) We messed something up whilst fiddling...
1) the battery is being drained faster than the alternator can charge it...
2) The alternator is bad.

BUT - the battery or alternator being bad (essentially not having enough juice to start) does not explain why it sometimes starts (within the hour lets say...and AFTER it has failed to start...)

Maybe...
1) The Earth for the battery is bad. ( I have yet to methodically clean or replace these.)


It could be a combo of these factors. I am waiting on a multimeter from ebay so I cannot do the usual tests to check the battery ... it does have a sticker on it that says 2/12 which might mean that it was bought this year and is fine?

In the course of my own investigations the following are issues.

1) There is this random wire in the engine. If anyone can tell me what it is supposed to connect to that would be great. In the picture I am pointing to the one end that is connected. Second picture shows general location in the engine.



I have pulled the kill switch along with the frankly suspect radio on my quest to find engine drain.

elsewhere...
1) Missing fuse (see pic 1) Most likely for the heated rear window relay. (see point 2)

2) All the wiring to the rear door has been damaged at the door hinge mechanism.
Indicating that all the electronics this end are non-operational...could this be a source for possible drain? If wet the snapped wires are close enough to maybe connect, short, etc.. but then there is that fuse missing which indicates the circuit has been cut...
 
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:14 AM
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The wires in the rear hatch are known for breaking. They run any of the power items in the hatch which include: Center brake light, license plate light, rear wiper, rear window defogger and rear lock (if you have central locking system). Since none of these systems are active when the car is shut off then I don't expect that they should be draining your battery.

When the car doesn't start, does it crank at all or slowly? Or does it crank fine but just not fire? If it cranks slowly, or doesn't crank, something is draining your battery while the car is off. One way to trace that down is to isolate the circuit by pulling fuses.

The loose hose is the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator. It looks like it has the wrong size hose. You need to get the right size hose. I don't remember the size but perhaps others here on the forum might be able to help.
 
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Old 06-22-2012, 08:31 AM
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Thanks.

Ok I will look at getting that hose sorted. Do you have any idea where that other wire goes? (see pic above). Or how to get the camshaft pulley off without an impact wrench ...

I charged the battery yesterday, drove it, disconnected negative terminal whilst parked. So far it has been fine so long as I disconnect the battery whilst parked and reconnect to get going. So it must be a battery drain rather than the alternator. I will also work through the earths as they are filthy.
 
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Old 06-22-2012, 10:48 AM
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I think working through the earths is a wise idea. A lot of problems I've had on my old 740 were related to bad earths, including this strange tendancy for the car to loose all power when I had the high beams on.

As pertaining to the alternator--off hand, I doubt it is a problem. I had a bad alternator in my 240, but I didn't realize it. What i noticed as symptoms was that all the dash indicator lights would kind of fade on and off sometimes, with no real realationship to when they were on or off. I had to replace the brushes, and that fixed all of that. Once you get your meter, you can pretty quickly determine if the alternator is doing okay--put your meter on the battery. With the car off, it should read somewhere around 12.5 to 13 volts. When the car is on, it should read somewhere around 14.5 to 15 volts. But while you have the car running, turn the throttle body. As you increase the speed of the motor, the voltage on the battery _should not_ change much if at all. If it does, the regulator is bad. It doesn't sound like this is your problem, but once you get a meter, this is easy to rule out.

To track down your mysterious drain... you might consider turning the car off, and running your meter (when you get it) down the fusebox, and see which fuses are running. A few do--such as for the clock and one to the radio (for it's clock), but most of them should be dead. But I'm not convinced it is a drain--the intermittent nature of it leads me to think it would be a bad ground. When you get your meter, let us know what you find.

As for the camshaft pulley... I found this great stuff called PBlaster that works great at working out rusty bolts. I've found it at Home Depot. That may be enough to help you. But honestly, I generally spray that, and then if I can't use a normal wrachet on it, i get out my impact wrench...
 
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Old 06-22-2012, 11:43 AM
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Well, as for the crankshaft pulley, there is a special tool you can buy from IPD or FCP called the crank pulley counter hold tool. It has 3 teeth that fit into the notches on the crank pulley and a slot on the other end that you secure using the tensioner bolt.

Link to the tool from IPD: Crankshaft Pulley Holder Tool B230

Link to FCP: 1991-1995 Volvo 940 Turbo Counter hold Tool
 
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:57 PM
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Thanks for all your help. I think i will loan an impact wrench from Oreillys. seems like the best bet. Anyone got any pointers on that random wire? Thank you.
 
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:54 PM
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Aw, I miss my 240's. That said you definitely have some issues to keep an eye out for. As mentioned, keep the grounds clean, tight and contact grease doesn't hurt. Ditto for your battery cables, there has been many a time I got someone out of our parking lot with a new terminal and slightly shortened cables, they tend to corrode. I even bought clear jacketed cables (on sale and heavier gauge than stock) to make life easier. Long cranking and a non dead battery is a clue here.

A huge issue with my 240's was the wiring harness off the right of the big grey connector on the firewall. I had um,4 85's so this may or may not apply to you, but I think there were 5 wires off that side of the connector going to the air mass meter (now usually called a mass air flow sensor MAF), the engine control unit ECU, the alternator, maybe the starter, maybe the master computer in the passenger foot well outside kick panel (bear with me it has been 6 years). Anyway, the problem is the insulation on these wires transforms into the equivalent of dried toothpaste where the harness goes over the engine in 150-250k miles. Not knowing the air mass or losing signal from the ecu makes the master control unit unhappy. No big deal, just trace and jumper them with good wire, wire nuts until you have time to rebuild the connectors and you are on your way. This is a good way to get cheap 240's off the wealthy, ignorant, unmotivated many that rely on dealer service as the dealer wants 6-700 for the harness alone and they choose to sell.

What else? Hm you'll go through a few in tank fuel pumps, those are cheap, after the stock pump goes the replacements don't seem to last as long, even OEM. I never bothered with race grade, it was recommended for my saturn but it was totalled before I could try. Probably a few seals, they get old, Ah the damn driveshaft support bearing and donut. I don't remember which goes first then kills the other. The trailing arm bushings if you have idiot children that slam across speed bumps. LooK on the various boards/forums there's a plumbing parts press to get the bushings out and a solution for the drveshaft support. I think I put in a replacement spring and molded a bottom segment out of silicone or lexol.

So, why keep the 240?

Because my last one lasted over 380000 miles and was still being driven when hurricane Ivan dropped a tree on it I think in 03. My first one was still running, a 1979. I left it in mo, a victim of road salt, the undercarriage was completely gone the width of the body, that was in 1999. Keep up the undercoating if it snows where you live. Who knows the mileage, I drove it a couple years with a dead odo. I had 2 saturns and those gokarts were fun till I had a kid...then I was back in Volvo wagons in a year, at most 2. V70 now, because the 245 line was dropped in...a while ago and junkyard parts are hard to find. I never wore one out, they were all casualties.

Learn to work on it and you'll love the car, 240's are far easier to work on than the later models, 840s, etc. Go around the speed bumps when you can and keep the rpms down and it'll last forever.
 

Last edited by bobdog; 10-10-2012 at 12:19 AM. Reason: damn tablet
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