1988 Volvo 245DL Overdrive
#1
12-07-2014, 07:48 PM
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1988 Volvo 245DL Overdrive
Hello everyone,
I own 1988 Volvo 245DL Automatic Transmission
Long story short. My overdrive wasn't shifting into 4th gear half of the time.
1) Replaced overdrive relay(the one next to glove box)
2) Checked wiring to overdrive solenoid
3) Replaced overdrive solenoid with new 2 o-rings.
Notes:
- Button was redone few years ago.
- Kickdown cable was replaced and adjust 2 years ago and working fine
However, now after replacing overdrive solenoid it wont shift into 4th gear at all even on 70mph(freeway speed)
Also, It makes clicking sound on overdrive solenoid when you press button.
Please help me. I have couple things what else could be wrong, but i will wait for replies.
I own 1988 Volvo 245DL Automatic Transmission
Long story short. My overdrive wasn't shifting into 4th gear half of the time.
1) Replaced overdrive relay(the one next to glove box)
2) Checked wiring to overdrive solenoid
3) Replaced overdrive solenoid with new 2 o-rings.
Notes:
- Button was redone few years ago.
- Kickdown cable was replaced and adjust 2 years ago and working fine
However, now after replacing overdrive solenoid it wont shift into 4th gear at all even on 70mph(freeway speed)
Also, It makes clicking sound on overdrive solenoid when you press button.
Please help me. I have couple things what else could be wrong, but i will wait for replies.
#2
12-07-2014, 09:12 PM
#3
12-07-2014, 09:53 PM
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I don't have that light on instrument panel. I said solenoid is new and clicking and relay is brand new.
#4
12-07-2014, 10:28 PM
um, yes, you should have an uparrow on the console. its the rightmost light, under the fuel gauge. all automatic overdrives do.
check fuse 11, which also goes to the heated rear window.
hmm, interesting circuit (he says for the 6th or 7th time, which is about every time I've looked at how twisted this 'simple' thing got...).
if the light never lights because the bulb is blown, the solenoid should still be getting power if everything else is correct. I just checked on our 87 (electrically identical to an 88). when I turn the ignition on even without starting the car, and push the OD button, the relay clicks and the OD light toggles.
ok, some tests... you can use a volt meter or a 12V test light, and you'll need some sort of wire thin enough to insert into the OD relay socket pins as your meter or light probes are probably too thick. i use inch long snipped off leads of electrical parts like resistors, capacitors as they are tinned solid copper about the right gauge, but really anything stiff enough to stick in the slot and the right thickness will work fine.
preparation: remove the OD relay. connect the black probe to pin 31 of the OD relay socket (its a black wire), thats ground.
test 1: connect the red probe to socket pin 15 (which has a blue and a grey wire). turn the ignition on, you should see +12V. if you don't, check the blue wire next to fuse 11 at the fuse panel, IT should have +12V when the ignition is on. there's probably 2 blue wires there, check both of them
(the other one goes to the rear window defroster circuit)
test 2: connect red probe to pin 86 (grey wire). ignition on, and push and hold the OD button, you should see 12V as long as the button is pushed.
test 3: connect rhe red probe to pin 15 and the black probe to pin 87 (not 87a!). the test light should come on, perhaps dimmer, or you should read some voltage, not quite 12V.
test 4 (optional. only do this if test 1 passed): make a jumper wire that will fit between pin 15 and pin 87 (not 87a) . leave the relay out, start the car and go for a test drive, accelerate smoothly, counting the shifts. cruising at 45mph steady on level ground, the car should shift into 4th/OD. (actually, mine will go into 4th when you're coasting considerably below 45)
if test 1-3 of these pass, your light /should/ be working, you probably have a blown bulb. if these 3 tests pass and test 4 fails, either your OD solenoid isn't getting power, or the solenoid or transmission are plugged up. When was the transmission fluid last flushed and changed?
the white wire from relay pin 87 (NOT 87a) goes to pin 1 of a flat 3-pin connector on the right side of the transmission hump, between the center console and shifter. This connector has the white wire to the solenoid on the transmission and it also has 2 grey wires to the pushbutton in the shifter.
your OD solenoid could be plugged up. when it gets power, the two little ports on the bottom are connected, when the power is off, its closed. carefully clean the area around it (transmission work requires good cleanliness as one bit of grit can ruin the whole thing), and take it off gain, run a wire into the holes on both the tranmission and solenoid, see if there's any flug in there.
check fuse 11, which also goes to the heated rear window.
hmm, interesting circuit (he says for the 6th or 7th time, which is about every time I've looked at how twisted this 'simple' thing got...).
if the light never lights because the bulb is blown, the solenoid should still be getting power if everything else is correct. I just checked on our 87 (electrically identical to an 88). when I turn the ignition on even without starting the car, and push the OD button, the relay clicks and the OD light toggles.
ok, some tests... you can use a volt meter or a 12V test light, and you'll need some sort of wire thin enough to insert into the OD relay socket pins as your meter or light probes are probably too thick. i use inch long snipped off leads of electrical parts like resistors, capacitors as they are tinned solid copper about the right gauge, but really anything stiff enough to stick in the slot and the right thickness will work fine.
preparation: remove the OD relay. connect the black probe to pin 31 of the OD relay socket (its a black wire), thats ground.
test 1: connect the red probe to socket pin 15 (which has a blue and a grey wire). turn the ignition on, you should see +12V. if you don't, check the blue wire next to fuse 11 at the fuse panel, IT should have +12V when the ignition is on. there's probably 2 blue wires there, check both of them
(the other one goes to the rear window defroster circuit)test 2: connect red probe to pin 86 (grey wire). ignition on, and push and hold the OD button, you should see 12V as long as the button is pushed.
test 3: connect rhe red probe to pin 15 and the black probe to pin 87 (not 87a!). the test light should come on, perhaps dimmer, or you should read some voltage, not quite 12V.
test 4 (optional. only do this if test 1 passed): make a jumper wire that will fit between pin 15 and pin 87 (not 87a) . leave the relay out, start the car and go for a test drive, accelerate smoothly, counting the shifts. cruising at 45mph steady on level ground, the car should shift into 4th/OD. (actually, mine will go into 4th when you're coasting considerably below 45)
if test 1-3 of these pass, your light /should/ be working, you probably have a blown bulb. if these 3 tests pass and test 4 fails, either your OD solenoid isn't getting power, or the solenoid or transmission are plugged up. When was the transmission fluid last flushed and changed?
the white wire from relay pin 87 (NOT 87a) goes to pin 1 of a flat 3-pin connector on the right side of the transmission hump, between the center console and shifter. This connector has the white wire to the solenoid on the transmission and it also has 2 grey wires to the pushbutton in the shifter.
your OD solenoid could be plugged up. when it gets power, the two little ports on the bottom are connected, when the power is off, its closed. carefully clean the area around it (transmission work requires good cleanliness as one bit of grit can ruin the whole thing), and take it off gain, run a wire into the holes on both the tranmission and solenoid, see if there's any flug in there.
#5
12-07-2014, 10:39 PM
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um, yes, you should have an uparrow on the console. its the rightmost light, under the fuel gauge. all automatic overdrives do.
check fuse 11, which also goes to the heated rear window.
hmm, interesting circuit (he says for the 6th or 7th time, which is about every time I've looked at how twisted this 'simple' thing got...).
if the light never lights because the bulb is blown, the solenoid should still be getting power if everything else is correct. I just checked on our 87 (electrically identical to an 88). when I turn the ignition on even without starting the car, and push the OD button, the relay clicks and the OD light toggles.
ok, some tests... you can use a volt meter or a 12V test light, and you'll need some sort of wire thin enough to insert into the OD relay socket pins as your meter or light probes are probably too thick. i use inch long snipped off leads of electrical parts like resistors, capacitors as they are tinned solid copper about the right gauge, but really anything stiff enough to stick in the slot and the right thickness will work fine.
preparation: remove the OD relay. connect the black probe to pin 31 of the OD relay socket (its a black wire), thats ground.
test 1: connect the red probe to socket pin 15 (which has a blue and a grey wire). turn the ignition on, you should see +12V. if you don't, check the blue wire next to fuse 11 at the fuse panel, IT should have +12V when the ignition is on. there's probably 2 blue wires there, check both of them (the other one goes to the rear window defroster circuit)
test 2: connect red probe to pin 86 (grey wire). ignition on, and push and hold the OD button, you should see 12V as long as the button is pushed.
test 3: connect rhe red probe to pin 15 and the black probe to pin 87 (not 87a!). the test light should come on, perhaps dimmer, or you should read some voltage, not quite 12V.
test 4 (optional. only do this if test 1 passed): make a jumper wire that will fit between pin 15 and pin 87 (not 87a) . leave the relay out, start the car and go for a test drive, accelerate smoothly, counting the shifts. cruising at 45mph steady on level ground, the car should shift into 4th/OD. (actually, mine will go into 4th when you're coasting considerably below 45)
if test 1-3 of these pass, your light /should/ be working, you probably have a blown bulb. if these 3 tests pass and test 4 fails, either your OD solenoid isn't getting power, or the solenoid or transmission are plugged up. When was the transmission fluid last flushed and changed?
the white wire from relay pin 87 (NOT 87a) goes to pin 1 of a flat 3-pin connector on the right side of the transmission hump, between the center console and shifter. This connector has the white wire to the solenoid on the transmission and it also has 2 grey wires to the pushbutton in the shifter.
your OD solenoid could be plugged up. when it gets power, the two little ports on the bottom are connected, when the power is off, its closed. carefully clean the area around it (transmission work requires good cleanliness as one bit of grit can ruin the whole thing), and take it off gain, run a wire into the holes on both the tranmission and solenoid, see if there's any flug in there.
check fuse 11, which also goes to the heated rear window.
hmm, interesting circuit (he says for the 6th or 7th time, which is about every time I've looked at how twisted this 'simple' thing got...).
if the light never lights because the bulb is blown, the solenoid should still be getting power if everything else is correct. I just checked on our 87 (electrically identical to an 88). when I turn the ignition on even without starting the car, and push the OD button, the relay clicks and the OD light toggles.
ok, some tests... you can use a volt meter or a 12V test light, and you'll need some sort of wire thin enough to insert into the OD relay socket pins as your meter or light probes are probably too thick. i use inch long snipped off leads of electrical parts like resistors, capacitors as they are tinned solid copper about the right gauge, but really anything stiff enough to stick in the slot and the right thickness will work fine.
preparation: remove the OD relay. connect the black probe to pin 31 of the OD relay socket (its a black wire), thats ground.
test 1: connect the red probe to socket pin 15 (which has a blue and a grey wire). turn the ignition on, you should see +12V. if you don't, check the blue wire next to fuse 11 at the fuse panel, IT should have +12V when the ignition is on. there's probably 2 blue wires there, check both of them
(the other one goes to the rear window defroster circuit)test 2: connect red probe to pin 86 (grey wire). ignition on, and push and hold the OD button, you should see 12V as long as the button is pushed.
test 3: connect rhe red probe to pin 15 and the black probe to pin 87 (not 87a!). the test light should come on, perhaps dimmer, or you should read some voltage, not quite 12V.
test 4 (optional. only do this if test 1 passed): make a jumper wire that will fit between pin 15 and pin 87 (not 87a) . leave the relay out, start the car and go for a test drive, accelerate smoothly, counting the shifts. cruising at 45mph steady on level ground, the car should shift into 4th/OD. (actually, mine will go into 4th when you're coasting considerably below 45)
if test 1-3 of these pass, your light /should/ be working, you probably have a blown bulb. if these 3 tests pass and test 4 fails, either your OD solenoid isn't getting power, or the solenoid or transmission are plugged up. When was the transmission fluid last flushed and changed?
the white wire from relay pin 87 (NOT 87a) goes to pin 1 of a flat 3-pin connector on the right side of the transmission hump, between the center console and shifter. This connector has the white wire to the solenoid on the transmission and it also has 2 grey wires to the pushbutton in the shifter.
your OD solenoid could be plugged up. when it gets power, the two little ports on the bottom are connected, when the power is off, its closed. carefully clean the area around it (transmission work requires good cleanliness as one bit of grit can ruin the whole thing), and take it off gain, run a wire into the holes on both the tranmission and solenoid, see if there's any flug in there.
Did you read what i posted there? solenoid is CLICKING when button pressed, means electrical its fine. I tried to clean 2 holes with paper clip, still no help. Solenoid is showing 13ohm with tester, so its fine.
#6
12-07-2014, 11:07 PM
um, our 87 has a tachometer, it replaces the clock on the left side (and this 87 240GL came with the separate small clock in one of the squares to the right of the instrument panel) the right side has the same coolant temp and fuel gauge, and under the fuel gauge, immediately right of the bulb-out lamp, is the yellow up-arrow for OD (comes on when OD is disabled). We bought this car new, have had it for 27 years now. it has about 400-500 thousand miles on it.
the relay can click and still not deliver power to the solenoid. please try my test 4 at least. that will ensure your OD Solenoid is getting power. if the OD works with this jumper, your problem is electrical. if it doesn't work, then its hydraulic/mechanical in the transmission, or the solenoid itself.
the relay can click and still not deliver power to the solenoid. please try my test 4 at least. that will ensure your OD Solenoid is getting power. if the OD works with this jumper, your problem is electrical. if it doesn't work, then its hydraulic/mechanical in the transmission, or the solenoid itself.
Last edited by pierce; 12-07-2014 at 11:10 PM.
#7
12-07-2014, 11:14 PM
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The OD button was redone as separate button in the center console. with positions
- off => power to solenoid
- on => no power to solenoid
Relay is brand new(2 weeks old). Solenoid is clicking when you press button. So i get my 12v on it(Actually 13.6v when idle, checked on old solenoid at the solenoid). Solenoid is brand new(2 days old) with new o-rings.
Why i changed my solenoid:
- about month ago its used to shift in 4th with old solenoid just time to time. Every time more rarely and more rarely. It was random. it wasn't higher rpm or anything related to driving.
What i'm thinking is happening:
- OD box got clogged => flushing fluid?
- OD box died, like valves or something => rebuild transmission?
- off => power to solenoid
- on => no power to solenoid
Relay is brand new(2 weeks old). Solenoid is clicking when you press button. So i get my 12v on it(Actually 13.6v when idle, checked on old solenoid at the solenoid). Solenoid is brand new(2 days old) with new o-rings.
Why i changed my solenoid:
- about month ago its used to shift in 4th with old solenoid just time to time. Every time more rarely and more rarely. It was random. it wasn't higher rpm or anything related to driving.
What i'm thinking is happening:
- OD box got clogged => flushing fluid?
- OD box died, like valves or something => rebuild transmission?
Last edited by smeha; 12-07-2014 at 11:30 PM.
#8
12-08-2014, 12:02 AM
wait, if this is on an on/off switch, then the relay behind the dashboard shouldn't even be in the circuit, and who KNOWS how its all wired. sounds like it should be blue-red from fuse 11 to your switch to the white wire to the OD solenoid on the transmission directly.
There's no separate overdrive box on the AW70/71 transmissions, the OD is inside the transmission. There's the 3 main gears which are implemented as a sun/planetary/ring gear set controlled via clutches, then there's the 4th gear 'OD' tucked in between the oil pump and the front clutch, on its own clutch.
these transmissions are relatively easy to rebuild by an expert, but the cost of having a decent transmission shop do this vastly exceeds what you can get a perfectly solid used AW70/71 for out of a junkyard. you can use the transmission out of just about any 240/740/940 automatic from about 1985 forward, except the AW72L of a 16 valve 740/940, those are different ratios. the turbo 740/940 have the heavy duty AW71 with the same gear ratios as your AW70.
I've seen the Volvo service docs on the AW70/71, and it is a complex enough process, that I'd not attempt it myself, unless maybe I had a spare transmission, a large clean well lit worktable and a WHOLE lot of time and patience. a whole lot of small parts, valves, springs, etc, that all have to be put together just so.. lots of 5 and 10 Nm torques, etc etc.
There's no separate overdrive box on the AW70/71 transmissions, the OD is inside the transmission. There's the 3 main gears which are implemented as a sun/planetary/ring gear set controlled via clutches, then there's the 4th gear 'OD' tucked in between the oil pump and the front clutch, on its own clutch.
these transmissions are relatively easy to rebuild by an expert, but the cost of having a decent transmission shop do this vastly exceeds what you can get a perfectly solid used AW70/71 for out of a junkyard. you can use the transmission out of just about any 240/740/940 automatic from about 1985 forward, except the AW72L of a 16 valve 740/940, those are different ratios. the turbo 740/940 have the heavy duty AW71 with the same gear ratios as your AW70.
I've seen the Volvo service docs on the AW70/71, and it is a complex enough process, that I'd not attempt it myself, unless maybe I had a spare transmission, a large clean well lit worktable and a WHOLE lot of time and patience. a whole lot of small parts, valves, springs, etc, that all have to be put together just so.. lots of 5 and 10 Nm torques, etc etc.
#10
12-08-2014, 12:50 AM
well, IF power IS getting to the solenoid (the relay behind the dashboard makes loud clicks, but with your switch, I'm not even sure why that relay is in the circuit), then you have two scenarios.
1) the solenoid is clogged up or broken. whereupon....
...1a) replace the solenoid, or
...1b) remove the solenoid, try and unclog it, or
...1c) remove the solenoid, remove the inner o-ring, dremel a notch betwen the two holes on the bottom to bypass the solenoid
2) the ports the solenoid fit onto are clogged up whereupon...
...2a) you can unplug them with a bit of wire and get lucky, or...
...2b) you need another transmission or need to rebuild yours.
3) the transmission itself is knackered inside, whereupon, see 2b.
If power is NOT getting to the solenoid, then its back to a wiring problem. since your car has been modified, I really can't help you from here.
1) the solenoid is clogged up or broken. whereupon....
...1a) replace the solenoid, or
...1b) remove the solenoid, try and unclog it, or
...1c) remove the solenoid, remove the inner o-ring, dremel a notch betwen the two holes on the bottom to bypass the solenoid
2) the ports the solenoid fit onto are clogged up whereupon...
...2a) you can unplug them with a bit of wire and get lucky, or...
...2b) you need another transmission or need to rebuild yours.
3) the transmission itself is knackered inside, whereupon, see 2b.
If power is NOT getting to the solenoid, then its back to a wiring problem. since your car has been modified, I really can't help you from here.
#11
12-08-2014, 02:31 AM
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well, IF power IS getting to the solenoid (the relay behind the dashboard makes loud clicks, but with your switch, I'm not even sure why that relay is in the circuit), then you have two scenarios.
1) the solenoid is clogged up or broken. whereupon....
...1a) replace the solenoid, or
...1b) remove the solenoid, try and unclog it, or
...1c) remove the solenoid, remove the inner o-ring, dremel a notch betwen the two holes on the bottom to bypass the solenoid
2) the ports the solenoid fit onto are clogged up whereupon...
...2a) you can unplug them with a bit of wire and get lucky, or...
...2b) you need another transmission or need to rebuild yours.
3) the transmission itself is knackered inside, whereupon, see 2b.
If power is NOT getting to the solenoid, then its back to a wiring problem. since your car has been modified, I really can't help you from here.
1) the solenoid is clogged up or broken. whereupon....
...1a) replace the solenoid, or
...1b) remove the solenoid, try and unclog it, or
...1c) remove the solenoid, remove the inner o-ring, dremel a notch betwen the two holes on the bottom to bypass the solenoid
2) the ports the solenoid fit onto are clogged up whereupon...
...2a) you can unplug them with a bit of wire and get lucky, or...
...2b) you need another transmission or need to rebuild yours.
3) the transmission itself is knackered inside, whereupon, see 2b.
If power is NOT getting to the solenoid, then its back to a wiring problem. since your car has been modified, I really can't help you from here.
2 & 3 possible and i need to know if the whole transmission fluid flush would help or just take it apart? Also, i cleaned both holes with paper cleap as much as i could.
Thank you
#12
12-08-2014, 03:00 AM
a trannny flush might help, hard to say. if your fluid is old, it should be done anyways. I typically find it takes about 8 quarts to really flush it all, even tho there's only like 4.5 quarts in the transmission.
I wouldn't touch the innards of the transmission without the transmission greenbook that covers AW70/71 such as TP-30578 (thats an early version that covers the BW55 as well as AW70/71). you'll need to fabricate some speciality tools, and be very good with delicate complex mechanisms. cleanliness is absolutely critical. no idea where you can get tranny inner parts as undoubtly some stuff will need replacing like clutches, springs, valves. the 'labyrinth' plumbing of the control valves is pretty scary complex looking on paper.
I wouldn't touch the innards of the transmission without the transmission greenbook that covers AW70/71 such as TP-30578 (thats an early version that covers the BW55 as well as AW70/71). you'll need to fabricate some speciality tools, and be very good with delicate complex mechanisms. cleanliness is absolutely critical. no idea where you can get tranny inner parts as undoubtly some stuff will need replacing like clutches, springs, valves. the 'labyrinth' plumbing of the control valves is pretty scary complex looking on paper.
#14
12-09-2014, 12:55 AM
I got a solenoid off ebay that was bad out of the box. it clicked but wasn't going into overdrive,.. then it started leaking.. did the dremel trick on the old one to test it and it would go into fourth.. ebay guy sent me a different one and now it works right..
If its leaking it might be the problem..
If its leaking it might be the problem..
#15
12-09-2014, 04:18 AM
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I got a solenoid off ebay that was bad out of the box. it clicked but wasn't going into overdrive,.. then it started leaking.. did the dremel trick on the old one to test it and it would go into fourth.. ebay guy sent me a different one and now it works right..
If its leaking it might be the problem..
If its leaking it might be the problem..
#16
12-09-2014, 04:47 PM
take your old one, cut a notch with a dremel tool or simialr between the two holes, like this... and reinstall it with just the outer o-ring, and test the car. the OD switch will be non-functional, it will always be in automatic OD enabled mode, so it should shift to 4th/OD while coasting at speeds of about 40MPH and above.
if it does, then your transmission is OK and your OD solenoid isn't functioning. if it doesn't shift into OD, then your transmission is bad, and needs servicing.
be extra careful to remove any filings before reinstalling this hack, btw.
if it does, then your transmission is OK and your OD solenoid isn't functioning. if it doesn't shift into OD, then your transmission is bad, and needs servicing.
be extra careful to remove any filings before reinstalling this hack, btw.
#17
12-10-2014, 12:56 AM
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Thank you.
Btw is anyone needs AW70/71 transmission repair book.
Here you go: http://www.240.se/service/30868_2.pdf
Btw is anyone needs AW70/71 transmission repair book.
Here you go: http://www.240.se/service/30868_2.pdf
#18
12-10-2014, 12:59 AM
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#19
12-10-2014, 06:58 AM
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been there...
i did an almost carbon copy of your troubleshooting to date. none of it worked as in your case. fuse/relay and solenoid all working etc. what i did last but not least was removed and cleaned solenoid, started car with solenoid off for a couple of seconds to blow out any debris from passages. buttoned up and o/d shifts normally at 38-40mph. the pressure in the trans is so high it blows out any debris preventing the o/d from kicking in. warning it will be messy! but it's worth it to get the o/d back. good luck.
#20
12-10-2014, 03:27 PM
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i did an almost carbon copy of your troubleshooting to date. none of it worked as in your case. fuse/relay and solenoid all working etc. what i did last but not least was removed and cleaned solenoid, started car with solenoid off for a couple of seconds to blow out any debris from passages. buttoned up and o/d shifts normally at 38-40mph. the pressure in the trans is so high it blows out any debris preventing the o/d from kicking in. warning it will be messy! but it's worth it to get the o/d back. good luck.
How do you clean solenoid? Oo