Hi Guys!

740, non turbo, Regina system, A/T w OD, ~240k miles, no crank, no start.

First off, the crank position sensor on this puppy is a few months old, so that's likely not the issue.

Reading other posts on the forum causes me to suspect the starter, which I suspect is OE. But before I take it off and test it, I wanted to see if there was anything else I should check.

Prior to it's failure to start today, it would infrequently fail to start when hot. If I waited a couple minutes it would start. When this occurred, it would sometimes not crank on the first or second turn of the key, and I suspected I could hear the solenoid engaging.

I can hear the relays engaging in the dash, I took them out, cleaned them, and verified their operation (saw them engage, or held a finger on each relay, could feel it operating). I suspect there's one other relay buried in the dash as I can hear it (so I assume it's working). Don't know if there's others I should inspect.

One thing I have yet to do is verify voltage at the starter when the key is turned, will do that next.

If that reads OK, any advice before I yank the starter out (and any advice on that)?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

Check the ignition switch first. The electrical portion of the switch is screwed on the back of the key switch. Take it off and spray it with contact cleaner. Also using a remote starter switch jump the starter to see if it will turn over.

 

There's a good chance it is not directly starter related. It could be the neutral safety switch on the shifter assembly. Have you tried starting in neutral rather than park? If nothing that way, hold the key to start w/ left hand and run the selector through all the gears to see if you can find a hot spot where the starter engages. If you want to try jumping the starter, there will be a small terminal and wire on the solenoid. Pull the wire off (it goes to the key switch) and jump from it to the big hot cable running to the battery. Be prepared for sparks! 240's actually had a test port on the firewall to bypass the neutral starter switch, made trouble shooting a breeze. The downside was, the car would start in any gear so...they did away with it for the 7's and beyond.

 

But hopefully I can make peace with whatever entities are currently inhabiting my brick.

Decided not to take the ignition switch off quite yet (that appears, from my many years of beating on cars under shady trees, to be a real byoch of a job, so I'll do that last).

Prior to this, the solenoid was not engaging.

So, I pulled off the little green wire attached to a tab on the starter and jumped it with a screwdriver (ooo, sparks!). Solenoid engages. Replaced wire.

(edit - I'm an idiot - what I clearly tested was the kicker(?) solenoid that throws the starter gear onto the main gear. Have not tested starter solenoid yet)

Proceeded to run the shifter through the gears, checking to see if it would start in any gear. No joy.

Here's where the paranormal activity starts: While trying this in one gear, a buzzing started from a relay behind the passenger dash, and my speedometer showed 30mph. That only happened once. On other tries, the tach would flutter on shutting the ignition switch off. Buzzing behind glove box has stopped now (I see dead peopl... I mean, circuits).

Now, when trying to start, the starter engages with a hearty, enthusiastic *clunk*!, but does not crank. When running the shifter, the starter clunks again, in park and neutral. Starter still does not engage.

Pretty sure it's not the neutral switch now though!

Here is a picture for reference (I jumped the green wire's tab to the closest terminal).

 

This is probably a dumb question, but how are your battery posts? Are they clean? The wire that goes from the battery to the solenoid needs to have a good connection too. It looks a bit corroded. Voltage drop will make a starter not go, but a solenoid work. Hows your battery?

 

Hi guys,

Well, it got cold, but now it got warm, so I'm back under my brick's hood.

Yesterday I went out and charged the battery (it was a little low, 11.5v). I tried the key and lo! It started.

Today I went out to clean the battery posts (which looked fine, but I figured why not), cleaned the solenoid wire connection, the main wire leading back to the battery connection, could not get the other one off.

Now, the solenoid clicks, but no crank. I tried jumping the solenoid wire to the lead running back to the battery per swiftjustice44's reco, and I get the same clicking sound.

I have sprayed the starter mount bolts with penetrating oil, as I'm thinking I need to pull it to repair/replace. So if I'm on the wrong track, someone please stop me, because it looks like I need to jack up the vehicle to get this out.

Thanks,

Dave

 

It sounds like you're on the right track. I'd check all connections before you pull it. Your battery sounds shot. It should stay above 12v for months if it's good and just sitting. Of course, temperature does effect that, but if you have warm weather, I would think that it should be above 12v.

 

I convinced myself for months that poor wiring on my 84 760 was the culprit. Then I discovered if I charged my battery every two weeks overnight that it always started. Chalked it all up to resistance from bad connections and age. Eventually, I swapped out the starter and it never failed again. Be glad you're contemplating a starter swap on a 7...doing a starter on the 240's is much more awkward.

 

We would like to take this opportunity to roundly curse the Swedish engineers who, after masterfully focusing their genius in designing an engine that can easily top 500k miles without an overhaul or major mechanical breakdown, who then abandoned all reason (perhaps in wild celebratory drinking binge at their design accomplishment) and subsequently chose the location of said engine's starter motor in such a fashion that it requires the shade tree mechanic to resorting to PUSHING THE DAMN TRANSMISSION OUT OF THE WAY WITH A CAR JACK TO GET AT ONE OF THE BOLTS...

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming of "take the starter to Autozone for testing".

That is all, carry on.

 

 

Disassembled the starter, it was totally fouled with carbon dust. I cleaned it with a brass brush and brake cleaner (I didn't open or touch the gearbox). The brushes looked like they had enough meat on them for a few more years (considering it was almost certainly original equipment), so I put it back together.

Figured it was probably fine, but took it to A-zone to test anyway (I would have tested it with the car's cabling, but I didn't have anyone handy to turn the key).

A-zone drone hit the switch, starter went zzzZIINNNG! and the computer popped up three green boxes with: PASS, PASS, PASS.

Auto-drone said "It sounds weak".

After a brief pause and a blank stare, I retrieved my brick's get-goin' motor, thanked him and left.

 

Sweet!

 

Yay! I just pulled and rebuilt my starter, I thought it was easy. I did it in a shopping center parking lot. No jacks and a little grunting. I'm surprised it gave you trouble. My car is a stick, maybe the bell housings are that different Stick is the way the swedes designed it.

 

Aha! Mine is an a/t, which would help explain why this was a PITA (a/t's AFAIKT are 1.5-2x larger than standard).

Even with the jack, there was barely enough room on mine to get enough clicks on the ratchet, as I had to use a pipe on it to get enough leverage to break the bolt loose and the tool was flexing with the effort... This was after several rounds of soaking it in penetrating oil and heating with a torch (at one point I wedged the propane torch in place and left it for ten minutes!).

I wish my brick was a standard. More reliable, cheaper to repair, better fuel economy, and you can pop start them in a pinch.

Warmer today, going to put it in.

When you rebuilt your starter, where did you buy the brush set?

 

EDIT - PROBLEM RESURFACED AFTER THIS POST...

(Thanks to all who are following this thread and helping out.)

OK, got it all back in (a breeze compared to taking it out), turned the key...

Clunk! (Cue steam coming out Dave's ears). Put the battery charger back on it as the battery is indeed marginal. Let it charge to almost full. Turned the key... Clunk!

...Thought about it for a moment, recalled noting the gear on the bendix seemed kind of angular for something that's supposed to mesh up with the ring gear, and decided that it could possibly be the Bendix hanging up and not meshing, which would stall the starter. Decided to just turn the key a few dozen times and see if the gears would set.

A couple of dozen clunks and... Lo! What noise from yonder brick breaks!

Stopped and re-started the car six or seven times, and each time it took a few less clunks to get the starter to engage properly. Seems to be catching on the first try now.

Question is, since this isn't 100% the way it *should* be, is there anything else I should know before I drive this thing again?

TIA,

Dave

 

Went to start it again, now no click, no crank.

Going to start with using a known good battery.

 

Good battery, no difference. Turns out the solenoid power wire came off. Squeezed the female connector so it now fits on the solenoid power tab securely.

However, no I'm back to very intermittent starting after many tries of the key.

Starter passed the voltage drop tests here How to Troubleshoot a Starter Problem - YouTube

At this point I suspect either a weak Bendix or the starter gear is not seating properly on the flywheel gear.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated..!

 

Unbolted the starter and wedged it so it was grounded. Jumped the terminals with a screwdriver. Bendix extended, but the gear did not turn.

Don't know why it tested fine, but failed after re-installation. Got a rebuilt one from Rockauto.

 

Here's my thread on rebuilding the starter:

https://volvoforums.com/forum/volvo-...run-car-59961/

It might help you understand what you're looking at. Also it says where I got my stuff.

 

Could have used that information a lot earlier, but thanks anyway.