Hello,

I have been driving an old great baby blue 86 volvo 240DL wagon with a roof rack. I know sweet right. It had been sitting at an old buddies house who stopped driving it when he lost his license. At that time it had a strange problem of intermittently shutting down while driving, usually it would start right back up.
after he lost his license he would go out and start it once a month, this happened for about 2 months. Then it stopped starting all together. I had it towed to my place, replaced several blown fuses and the fuel relay. and it started right up, Needless to say i was elated. I drove it about half way down the block and it died again and wouldnt start back up even if i tried jumping the fuse relay. I pushed it back home, stuck the trickle charger on it and tried it again in the morning. Fired right up. went to test drive it, drove around for about an hour no problem, overdrive works. goes 75 on the Highway with ease. then im on the road back to the house, dies again. I repalced the 25 amp fuse and holder in the engine bay, the old one was badly corroded. I also noticed that my engine wiring harness, had tell tale 86 volvo 240 insulation rot. although not too horribly. if thats possible...

currently she keeps dying on me about every 3 weeks. if i let her cool down, sometimes she will start back up. only to die again 2 mins later. if i spray a little starter fluid through the mass air flow sensor, she is good for another 3 weeks. if i disconnect the mass air flow sensor and she is in park, No start...

Lastly the engine temperature gauge is not getting a reading at all. and occasionally the speedometer will drop to 20mph if im going between 35-50.

Ohh and if i try to accelerate wuickly from a start for the first few seconds there is a rattle coming from the left rear of the car.

Hah that does it. thanks so much all in advance for your help. This is a great volvo ill try to get some pics up for you.

BBman

 

86 is one of the 'biodegradable wiring' years, sadly. I'd be checking the condition of the wiring harness under the hood, looking for brittle/cracked insulation and corroded wiring. oh, you said you have some. trouble is, a lot of the potential damage is under the covers where it cant be seen, inside the tubing protecting the harness.

my daughter's 87 had an intermittent no-start when hot, but it only did it when she wasn't here and every time I tried to zoom to her, it would start before I got there. finally it died completely and had to be towed. turned out to be the main fuel pump. not saying thats your problem, there's a dozen possible causes, this is but one, and throwing parts at it is a lousy way of diagnosing a problem.

first thing to do is determine if its a fuel or spark problem... I used a timing light to show me there was strong spark during cranking, so I knew it was a fuel problem. oh, if its the hall sensor in the distributor, that stops fuel AND spark, and those are another common source of intermittent failure on older cars.


btw, just guessing, but that rattle is probably a loose muffler bracket or something, completely unrelated to the rest of this. unless its a sick fuel pump, but they usually sound more like a tired whizzing motor.

 

Thanks for your quick reply Pierce, at first i thought it was a fuel Issue also. however i put my ear to the tank access panel and got under the car while someone put it in start. I am 99.9% sure i could hear both fuel pumps working. also the fuel tank hatch looked like it had been messed with before so im guessing at some point it may of had a new in tank pump.. doesnt mean there isint a problem with this one. I do try to keep the tank at more than half full for the time being while i narrow down the problem

Im all about trying to actually figure out the problem before i throw money into a repair. but the new fuel relay was like 10$ and the replacement waterproof/weatherproof 25 amp fuse holder was like 4.50 at the local Napa Auto parts.. and all in all she is really running pretty well.

I am almost inclined to attribute all the stalling to the faulty engine harness. On that note i have the new one and am just waiting for a part for my truck to fix that so i am not left with no vehicle. However were it all the engine wiring, how does waiting 15 mins and trying again fix the problem(see original Post), In my limited experience, wires don't fix themselves, relays and sometimes fuses will. wires dont usually move unless they are moved, no?

One idea i had but i am not sure how to trouble shoot is the temperature gauge/sensor. I was thinking that maybe there is a faulty switch or ground somewhere that controls the Exhaust, as in weather it re-curliates or goes out the exhaust system. I just received my Bentley manual copy and have been reading all i can in spare time on 240 electrical and trying to figure out how to get the temp gauge working.

My thinking was that on a hot day, if the gauge or switch is faulty and it is running too much recirculated engine exhaust it would really mess with the mass air flow sensor? is this possible?

It definitely has a spark, distributor and cables and plugs were recently replaces as well as air and fuel filters. i pulled a plug out the other evening at dusk and i could see, and feel a spark, heh ooops... thats didnt feel too good. I guess i should of just pulled the wire and stuck the screwdriver in...

Ill check for any loose brackets and such that is a good idea, its odd tho. It will ONLY make the rattle noise if you are accelerating heavily from a stop. does not seem to make the noise any other time.

I am working on getting a Voltmeter, i guess that would really help narrow it down also.

Any tips or ideas are appreciated.

thanks in advance.

BBman

 

lets see. the MAF is upwind of any EGR, so that shouldn't have any bearing on things. HOWEVER, on 240's, there's a thermostat controlled flap in the bottom of the air cleaner box that, when its cold out, is supposed to allow the engine to draw its fresh air via that silver 'clothes dryer' hose that comes off a shield on the exhaust manifold. that thermostat is infamous for sticking open and causing the flap to always allow hot air into the air cleaner, this CAN fry the MAF. I highly recommend wiring that flap tight shut, you only need it in sub-zero conditions. you CAN replace that thermostat flap if you do live where temps are regularly below 0F/-20C, I think IPDusa has it.

the dashboard temperature gauge uses a seperate sensor from the one that goes to the ECU and ICU. the dash temp gauge sensor has a single yellow wire coming off it, while the ECU/ICU Engine Coolant Temp (ECT) sensor has two wires that are each, I think, blue/red. there's a third 'sensor' thats the anti-knock sensor, these 3 sensors are all on the side of the engine block under the intake manifold runners. from front to rear, I *think* its the ECT, the knock sensor, and the dashboard coolant sensor.

oh. your rattle... the middle of the drive shaft has a support bearing thats in a rubber cushion. the cushion and/or the bearing can wear out and get loose, causing drive shaft jacking under hard acceleration, I could see this quieting down after getting hot under certain conditions. my daughters car, the bearing was frozen solid, and spinning in the cushion. you have to unbolt the driveshaft to replace this.

never underestimate how random seeming bad wiring problems can be. oxidized connections can do temperature specific things.

I'm not sure if a 86 240 even has an EGR... my 1992 740 turbo wagon does, but its a california model, non-california cars usually don't have EGR. On the Volvo EGR systems I've seen, there's a 'top hat' looking funny control thing on the forward side of the left strut tower, this has two vacuum lines that come off the lower part, and an electrical connector. one vacuum line goes to the intake manifold, while the other goes to the EGR actuator valve under the intake manifold. the exhaust manifold has a port on the rear side that goes to a 1/2" metal pipe that snakes around the back of the engine block and connects to the back side of this EGR actuator valve, which lets some of that exhaust gas into the intake manifold between the throttle body and the head. here's an upside down picture of this egr control thing out of the car.

 

Hey guys. BBman I am experiencing the same thing you are. it all started last week when I went to get in my car and I cranked it and it ran for about a second and shut off. I have a 92 volvo 240 non turbo. I have now been under the hood all week. Im quite frustrated at this point since school comes back in monday and I have to get to work and school five days a week. Sometimes it will drive fine. Some days it wont even start. It has never shut off on me going 40 miles an hour down the road but it has shut off on me when as I pulled out of a parking space and started going about 10 miles an hour. I began immediately assuming it was a fuel delivery issue. But the main fuel pump sounds like its working. I hear it working. And I took the cover off where the in tank fuel pump is and felt fuel running through the lines. So then I checked the relay and as I held it in my hand and moved the ignition to the on position I heard it click several times. And also when the car has ran for a while the relay is hot to the touch. After inspecting all of that, I then began to assume maybe it was just a tune up issue. So I took off the EGR valve and it was caked full of carbon build up. I clean it out and I also put on new spark plus and wires. Cleaned the distributor cap very well and cleaned off the terminals on my battery because i seen one case on here with someone with my same problem and theirs was fixed by cleaning all of the corrosion off of the positive battery terminal. My car still isnt running well and sometimes wont run at all. I then changed the fuel filter. And the car seemed to do great. I have drove it with no shut offs for the last three days. And it started up everytime. But last night it started doing the same thing. So today I have been reviewing everything all day. I checked all the wires and fuses. They all look fine. The reason I dont think it is a fuel issue is because my car works and drives sometimes. If the pumps were bad or the relay were bad it wouldnt work at all. And I know if the in tank fails then the main will continue picking up slack but will exhuast after a while. So possibly i need to just start back with the fuel system and change out the in tank fuel pump. Pierce, I see you are on here often. I have a very nice junkyard in my area with plenty of 740s and 940s but no 240s. Could it be possible that these series could all be compatible? If so, I could grab a in tank pump from one of the junk cars and put it in and test it instead of spending 100 dollars on the whole in tank set up. What are your thoughts? At this point I am at a loss. The only thing i havent thouroughly checked was the pumps. That could be my problem. I dont feel it is an ignition problem or electric problem. I also think that maybe I have tore up my in tank pump because on several occasions the last few months I have driven with low amounts of gas. And one time I thouroughly ran out of gas. I know this is hard on the in tank pump and can cause it to go. So maybe that has been the issue all along. Ill have to see. Pierce, what are your thoughts on the 200, 700, and 900 series though? Can parts be compatible?

Thanks,

Travis

 

tank pumps between bosch dual pump systems should be compatible. the full assembly on 240 and 7/940 are different as they have different mounting flanges

some 7/9s have Regina injection, those don't have a 'main' pump under the car, they have a high pressure pump in the tank, THIS pump is NOT compatible with cars that have dual pumps, unless you convert the whole system (remove the main pump and connect the line from the tank directly to the fuel filter). 7/9 turbos have a higher volume pump.

many other parts ARE compatible between the 240's and 7/9s that have the same version injection (LH2.2 vs LH2.4... 2.4 was used in 89 and newer nonturbos... then there's regina/rex systems, these are different).

major differences between 240's and 7/9s are A) 7/9's have a completely different fuse panel and major parts of the wiring harness are different, B) 7/9's have a 'radio suppression relay' under the hood, 240's don't, and C) 7/9's have the distributor on the back of the head, off the camshaft, while 240's have the distributor on the side of the engine block.

B230F engine blocks are the same, heads are the same (240's have a cap for where the 7/9 distributor mounts, 7/9's have a cover where the block side distributor goes on the 240), afaik the 240 and 7/9s use the same water pumps. the engine accessories (alternator, a/c, power steering) move around year to year and model to model, and there's a few different sized alternators (turbos use 100A, most other cars use 80A). some 7/9s have a 16valve B234F engine, this has a completely different twin cam head.

I'm pretty sure the transmissions are interchangeable, but suspension and rear axle differ a fair amount between the 240 and the 7/9s, pretty much nothing is interchangable. you can put 7/9 15" and 16" wheels on a 240, but 14" 240 wheels won't clear the larger front brakes on the 7/9 cars. and yes, the 7/9's have bigger front brakes, not sure about the rears. there's several different brands of brake parts on any of these cars so you have to make sure you get the right brake pads to match your calibers.

the interiors are totally different, the seats have different bolt patterns, etc.

 

Thanks for the info. Then I guess I will have to go buy an in tank pump. I also have unplugged the MAF and the car still wouldnt come on. So I know it isnt my MAF. I also know it cant be the O2 sensor because it would not cause my car to not work completely. For a short while I thought maybe it was my exhaust system that is causing my car to not run properly. I need to get a whole new one. The muffler and exhaust tip have areas rusted through. I also am unsure if the cat even works. I did an infared temperature test and it is up to temperature standards but I dont know how accurate that is in testing it to see if it operates correctly. I havent checked into the hall switch. I read up on it today and apparently its in the distributor cap. But I have new plugs so I know im getting fire. The car has drove well the last three days. I just feel that maybe my main pump has done all it can and my true problem is the in tank. And if i dont get that fixed soon then my main pump is going to give out.

 

Ahhhh, I see. thanks pierce. That flap just before the air filter is just what i was wondering about. Im going to go out and try to get that wired shut.

I managed to get the truck going again today so looks like i will be able to start the wiring project rather soon.

anyone have any experience installing new engine wiring harness on an 86 240? I have read the write up on DaveShan site volvo2.homested.com but any additional tricks or tips would be greatly appreciated.


I guess once i get that problem taken care of i will really be able to narrow things down.

 

I've never swapped a harness, but I think I'd clean the inside of the engine compartment first, then lay the new harness over the old one and swap connectors one by one

if you're using a harness out of another car, I'd be doing a WHOLE lot of checking out of wire colors and such. 86 and 87 240's *should* be pretty close, but in 88 or 89, they updated to LH2.4 and things changed quite a bit. I'd want to have the greenbook wiring diagrams WITH CORRECTION PAGES for both donor and your car, and compare things very closely, and use an ohm meter on the two harnesses to verify.

 

Hi Everyone, Good news. The wiring project is almost done. Got it all hooked back up last night, It wouldnt start for me, but i need to tap out a ground and re connect it and it should fire right up.

I actually managed to do it also without pulling off the intake header, I did have to pull off the alternator when i got to The ICU wiring harness that i decided to replace because or some real shoddy looking wires that were coming off the alternator/Oil pressure sender unit. It took some splicing but everything is where it should be accept one wire... There is a black one with a little round piece that goes to the oil pressure sender, then there is a red one(these two wires actually are a part of the Engine wiring harness also) that for the life of me i cant figure out where it goes. At first i thought it went to the alternator because its red and there was no power to alt yet. But the connector wouldnt fit on the +B connector and the guys are the parts store said a lot of time the alternator is hooked straight to the battery, so thats what i did with a 12 Ga wire. none the less, one little red wire i can't figure out where it goes.

Ill try to get that ground tapped today and let you know if that fixes my start issue. It is so close to starting, and actually started a few times but then stalled immediately..


thanks BBman

 

Hello Again,

Updates are as follows, Still will not start! =( I rethread a ground as it had become stripped and i thought this was the problem but she still wont turn all the way over. Pulled a plug, Had a bright blue spark. pulled the connector off the air flow sensor, still wont start. Twisted all the fuses around in their connectors. double checked all vacuum hoses, Replaced the Flame trap with Ipd easier to reach replacement flame trap kit. Replaced both motor mounts.

Not sure what to do next.

I havent been able to figure out where the red wire coming from the Engine wiring harness running under the oil pan to the alternator connects to. I have been studying the wiring diagrams in the bentlys but not the easiest thing to figure out. any tips or ideas are appreciated.

Thanks

BBman

 

the alternator has a heavy red wire to the B+ pin that comes from the starter, and a thin red wire to the D+ pin that comes from the dashboard alternator light.

only other wire is the heavy black ground wire. [except on some diesels, there's a red-white wire from "W" to the volt meter on the dash]

 

Ok went and re did a few things, i think i have the alternator hooked up almost the right way now. I just need to figure out how important it is for the Alt to be connected to the starter and not directly to the battery. Because when i went to hook up the alt to the starter there was no connector on the other side, since the positive battery connection already has a place to hook up loose wires i just loosened that a little and hooked the alt directly to that.

I can try to post a pic if its not clear what im talking about.

Anyone happen to have a picture of the back of an 86 volvo alternator handy?

Haha i dont remember exactly what bolt had the D+ next to it. and its already back on the car.

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks

BBman

 

Good news, not sure if anyone is still following this. Got the volvo running. i pulled out and reconnected a few plugs the other night just to look at them, Then this morning we were getting some gravel delivered and naturally we wanted to dump it where the volvo was parked. Insted of trying to start it again we just pushed it over the little hump in the driveway into the back corner. when we were done just for kicks i tried to start her and she came right to life. ran a few errands, put some gas in the tank and no problems yet. im going to drive it for a few days and see if i can get her to stall again..

Thanks for everyones help.

BBman

OOO just a heads up the landlady has a V70 GLT sittind in the back of the property that apprently has 200k and a blown turbo. Might be the next project, they are talking about possibly giving it away. anyone ever ordered a turbo rebuild kit from Ebay and had any success?