Hey everyone, my car died today while driving, it sputtered for a bit then died completely and won't start up again, it cranks but won't start. While I was waiting for the tow truck to pick me up, I was looking around and thinking what could be causing it and so I checked if it has any fuel so I pressed the fuel rail pressure valve and gas squirted out. When I got the car home I checked for sparks and there was spark, I went ahead and checked the fuel rail for gas again and to my surprise NO gas went out this time. I jumped the 103 relay on contacts 15 and 87 and still no luck, I hear buzzing around the throttle body and I read somewhere that if you hear the buzzing that means the fuel injector relay is working. I haven't yet to break the gas line on the fuel filter to see if the pump is working or not, what puzzled me is that there was fuel in the fuel rail at first but the car wouldnt start... what do you guys think it could be? I'm leaning towards a bad fuel pump but maybe someone had the same experience and would like to share their thoughts... thank you!

 

Sorry but "cranks" and "turn over" mean the same thing; i.e. the starter is energized and spinning the crankshaft as it should.

When the engine "starts" it does just that; begins to run on its own w/o any continued assistance from the starter motor. An engine "starting" does not mean "turn over" or "catch", etc.

Apologize for being a*** about terms but want to make sure we're all on the same page, not only for you, but all others who may read this in the future.

I agree w/you that I would suspect the fuel pump is going out on you. Open up the fuel pump access cover and rap on the top of the pump housing a few times with handle of screwdriver or hammer. Then listen in this area while someone else turns the key to "ON" position. If you hear pump buzzing now, it may even start, but probably won't run for long.

If you hear no buzzing, make sure you're getting pwr (12V) to the pump wiring; assuming you are getting pwr, then it's time for new pump.

BTW: I just ckd my notes; to bypass the fuel pump relay, you want to jumper relay pins 15 and 87a (ck 87a has 12v pwr while you're at it).

 

sorry about that, I didnt notice my mistake but yeah I meant it cranks but it won't start. If I do have to replace the pump, how do I get it out of the tank? do I need a special tool to remove the round plastic ring holding it down? thanks for your reply

 

No need to apologize; I am just trying to educate, not scold.

There's a special tool to turn that plastic fuel pump housing ring but most get by w/o it. The hardest part will be to break it loose the first time. I used large water pump pliers like these. After it's loose can use hammer and punch to push it along.

But first diagnose it; don't assume it's the pump until you prove it to yourself.

The OE Bosch ones are over $100 but I've heard walpro makes one that drops right in; less money and more capacity but heard it's noisier than the stock one. If you go the walpro route, make sure you don't get a knock-off; heard there are quite a few out there... Think kfrog is running one so he may chime in with the particulars.

 

He educates (Gdog), I scold (Walbro, not Walpro ) but I'm old and grumpy.

I was working at Autozone at the time so I bought one there. It was an Airtex E8643 but it's a Walbro in the box. Like a lot of parts they get relabeled since there isn't enough demand for Airtex to make their own.
The Specs on the pump are:
Maximum Free Flow Rate (gph):50
Maximum Pressure Range (psi): 100
Minimum Free Flow Rate (gph): 40
Minimum Pressure Range (psi): 80

I have a 55psi FPR and run some E85 and this pump is more than enough.
Only thing I might change is going through FCP if they'd give a lifetime on it since I'm not at zone anymore (no discount) and zone only gives 1 yr.
I also have an "R" manifold and a 19T waiting for me and this pump should still be enough to support that too.

BUT . . . before all that find out if the pump is getting power as the relay itself is well known for failing. You jumped the relay but you need to pull the pump cover and see if you have power at the pump and if the ground circuit is good before you tackle that plastic ring !! I'd also break the line at the filter and jump that relay and see what comes out PRE filer.

That buzzing is likely the Idle Air Control motor. Big silver tube next to the throttle body with black rubber air tube in and out.

You might have a very restricted fuel filter. When in doubt change it out and especially change it out if you do the pump so you don't take out your new pump Good thing to do when you do the filter is use touch up paint and put the date and miles on it. That way you know last time you did it. Magic marker on the air filter ,,, it's the little things that make maintenance easy.

You could also have a fuel pressure regulator that isn't holding enough pressure and the pump is going full bore but the regulator is just returning too much back to the tank You want to pull the vac line off and see and smell if you have any raw gas there. Any gas at all and it's bad.

Hit it with some starting fluid and that will tell you if it's lack of fuel or poor spark. Just having spark isn't the same as having ENOUGH spark.

Let us know.

 

Then find the video from Rspi on no starts if he doesn't get over here soon and post it himself !!

 

LOL! Just like whacking a beehive with a stick..! Thanks for the correction. (I was happy to do it, Mark)

Don't sell me short, I can be grumpy too! (Plenty of room on the grumpy train, kick that beehive !!)

 

Here I am. Had to get some sleep.

 

I just love a good tag team !!

Thank you Robert

 

hey guys thanks a lot for your replies, I did the fuel line break this morning (I forgot to mention that the fuel filter was replaced when I purchased the car about 6 months ago) though I broke the line after the filter.. I know you guys mentioned to do it before the fuel filter but the line looked like it was kinda old and it might break if i put pressure on it so i left it alone.. only a little bit of gas went out when i broke the line and none after that. I hear no sound whatsoever, I remember my pump had a high pitched sound to it before but none now.. As I mentioned I had jumped the 103 relay last night and it was no go (saw how to do it from one of rspi's video) so I guess it's safe to say that my fuel pump had gone out, I've had the car run with the gas light on plenty of times before and the most recent one was last week and I guess that's what brought it to fail. LESSON LEARNED! lol

I made a video showing the car's ignition on and no gas coming out from the line

 

If you bumped the starter and didn't get a 1/2 gallon of fuel out, I'd say our pump is bad. I picked up a car with some fuel in it a few months back and I did what you did and just about drained the tank in no time. It' had about 12 gallons in it.

So, you either have some electrical problem or the pump is bad. My guess is the pump is bad but you can test it to make sure you're getting power back there.

As long as you don't run it out of gas, low gas should NOT be an issue. The video above was of a car that usually has lots of gas in the tank. My low fuel light is on ALL THE TIME. At least 2 times per week. Heck, it's been on for 2 days right now. Sad to say it's been that way for 2 years.

How many miles does the car have?

 

yeah I bumped the starter and still nothing, my odo says 145XXX but the OBD1 tells me it has 255XXX miles (previous owner got me on that one) my gas gauge kinda reads funny, it'll read full to 3/4 then the next time I start it i'll read 1/2 to 1/4 then go up while I drive around I dont know why, but yeah my car has a lot of miles...

 

Disregard this reply

 

You're not the only one that gets GOT on mileage.

I would say your cluster is going out but that can be tested with the OBD-1 port under the hood.

 

The mileage,,, oh ya it's correct, just broke last week

 

I replaced the relays and fuel pump on my car and then driving down the road I had the same problem. I started checking everything again and when I pulled the new pump I found one of the wires in the pump mounting inside the tank had broken off. I resoldered it and all OK.

 

I checked the connector for the fuel pump and it's getting power, so its just really a dead pump. I just ordered a new pump from FCP and will be installing it asap when it arrives but I still feel sketchy about the plastic ring

 

Might as well get started on getting the ring off now in case you run into a problem. Or , , , soak it with PB blaster or something today and work on it tomorrow. Also soak the fuel line connectors. They can be a real pain.

 

thanks for the tip, I'll do that today

 

turns out I had the same issue except mine just got unplugged! car is back on the road! thanks for the help guys!