hydraulic lifter noise
#81
07-23-2012, 10:07 PM
If it's quiet when it starts up it's because the oil is physically thicker before it starts to warm up. You could try going to a thicker oil or even a straight weight oil like a 40 or 50 weight during the summer. It would be more of a test as you'd have to revert to something thinner come fall.
If it's quiet when it starts up it's likely you have very worn bearings or lifters that can't stay pumped up once the oil gets thinner. Compression reading wouldn't hurt but it may not really direct you to the problem.
Lucas injector cleaner would be a very good thing to do. As for the marvel the problem is that if you had a sticky lifter it "should", should be sticky from the time you start it until you shut it down. If it's quiet at first it's likely NOT a lifter that is sticky. It could just be normal wear and clearances that are too large for the oil to fill properly.
Did the ticking or knocking come on abruptly??
Have you had it long and have you regularly changed oil and filter??
What weight oil are you running and is it a synthetic or ??
The other thing that would be really important to know is the oil pressure. You might be losing pressure as the temp builds and the oil gets thinner. It could be a bad pump, a bad oil pressure relief valve or spring or for an 850 there are seals in the pan that can wear out and allow some of the flow to bleed off so the engine isn't getting what the pump is pushing out.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=1&t=11256
If it's quiet when it starts up it's likely you have very worn bearings or lifters that can't stay pumped up once the oil gets thinner. Compression reading wouldn't hurt but it may not really direct you to the problem.
Lucas injector cleaner would be a very good thing to do. As for the marvel the problem is that if you had a sticky lifter it "should", should be sticky from the time you start it until you shut it down. If it's quiet at first it's likely NOT a lifter that is sticky. It could just be normal wear and clearances that are too large for the oil to fill properly.
Did the ticking or knocking come on abruptly??
Have you had it long and have you regularly changed oil and filter??
What weight oil are you running and is it a synthetic or ??
The other thing that would be really important to know is the oil pressure. You might be losing pressure as the temp builds and the oil gets thinner. It could be a bad pump, a bad oil pressure relief valve or spring or for an 850 there are seals in the pan that can wear out and allow some of the flow to bleed off so the engine isn't getting what the pump is pushing out.
http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/for...hp?f=1&t=11256
#82
07-23-2012, 10:23 PM
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Still had the tick after the lifters were installed which is why I went on to replace the oil pan seals, which is when I found the piston scrap. I still think the oil pan seals have something to do with the noise, but we won't know for a few days. Well really, we may never know if it was the piston causing the noise or the pan seals.
Oddly, there wasn't any clear evidence that the damaged piston was causing any noise or damage - no loss of compression and no damage to the cylinder wall, so that makes me think the piston wasn’t causing any of the noise. If it ain’t the pan seals and it’s not the piston, I have no clue what it could be!
Oddly, there wasn't any clear evidence that the damaged piston was causing any noise or damage - no loss of compression and no damage to the cylinder wall, so that makes me think the piston wasn’t causing any of the noise. If it ain’t the pan seals and it’s not the piston, I have no clue what it could be!
#85
07-24-2012, 09:40 AM
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what does the rod bearing do?it could be the problem. may be replacing them might cure the tick. where is it located in the engine and how hard is it to replace them?
The connecting rod bearing is the bearing at the base of the connecting rod where the rod bolts up to the crankshaft. It's built in two pieces and needs to have a specific "clearance" between the bearing shell and the face of the crankshaft. This is the space that oil will fill and allow everything to rotate properly. If it's to tight you will get excessive wear and it's to loose you will get a knocking and or low oil pressure due to the oil running out of there instead of building a pressurized barrier between the two parts. The main bearings for the crankshaft are built and function the same way. To check the clearance you use "plasti gauge".
Instructions:Genuine Plastigauge - How It Works
Video how to:
For both the main bearings and the connecting rod bearings they will come standard or thicker. The reason they make them thicker is a damaged crankshaft can be ground smooth again but it will be smaller. To compensate you need to use a thicker bearing to make up for what was ground off. Because the bearing needed is thicker the diameter is actually smaller so it's referred to as "under" and usually goes in -.010 increments. Or at least it did, it's been a while since I've done any engine building
The connecting rod bearing is the bearing at the base of the connecting rod where the rod bolts up to the crankshaft. It's built in two pieces and needs to have a specific "clearance" between the bearing shell and the face of the crankshaft. This is the space that oil will fill and allow everything to rotate properly. If it's to tight you will get excessive wear and it's to loose you will get a knocking and or low oil pressure due to the oil running out of there instead of building a pressurized barrier between the two parts. The main bearings for the crankshaft are built and function the same way. To check the clearance you use "plasti gauge".
Instructions:Genuine Plastigauge - How It Works
Video how to:
For both the main bearings and the connecting rod bearings they will come standard or thicker. The reason they make them thicker is a damaged crankshaft can be ground smooth again but it will be smaller. To compensate you need to use a thicker bearing to make up for what was ground off. Because the bearing needed is thicker the diameter is actually smaller so it's referred to as "under" and usually goes in -.010 increments. Or at least it did, it's been a while since I've done any engine building
#86
07-24-2012, 09:52 AM
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The thermostat will stop the flow of oil to the radiators oil cooler until the temperature of the oil rises enough to open it. Similar to the way the cooling systems thermostat operates. Until it's warm it just recirculates back into the engine.
#87
07-24-2012, 10:30 AM
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If you pull the oil pan, you'll have to unbolt this which takes two T-30 (IIRC). There's a rectangular O-ring that will need to be replaced - which does not come oil pan gasket kit - dumb, IMHO...
#89
07-24-2012, 06:58 PM
#90
07-24-2012, 07:07 PM
after the lifter change.here is a video of it.
and after an oil change.the tick has gotten worst.it sometimes tick when it starts up and doesnt stop and gets quiet when warm and starts ticking again. its like it stops and comes back again.strange.was very happy it was solved but now am sad.LOL
volvo lifter noise - YouTube
and after an oil change.the tick has gotten worst.it sometimes tick when it starts up and doesnt stop and gets quiet when warm and starts ticking again. its like it stops and comes back again.strange.was very happy it was solved but now am sad.LOL
volvo lifter noise - YouTube
#92
07-25-2012, 09:46 AM
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You can't really see it's condition unless you remove one and inspect it, which would be a hassle - (1) just to get at, and (2) they're going to get mangled when you remove it and must be replaced anyway. The best way to tell is if you have good compression but get white smoke upon startup or when idling in Park for a few minutes.
#93
07-25-2012, 12:21 PM
#94
07-25-2012, 12:22 PM
You can't really see it's condition unless you remove one and inspect it, which would be a hassle - (1) just to get at, and (2) they're going to get mangled when you remove it and must be replaced anyway. The best way to tell is if you have good compression but get white smoke upon startup or when idling in Park for a few minutes.
#95
07-25-2012, 12:38 PM
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I knew I had the smoke at startup so I did the seals when I did the lifters. Since the clicking didn't go away after the lifter job, I thought to replace the oil pan seals which has been known to cause a ticking sound. When I pulled the pan, I then saw the metal scrap in my pan and shortly thereafter, discovered the broken piston.
In thinking about it, I'm not sure the piston was causing the noise since there isn't any scarring on the wall, so I'm wondering if I had to replace the piston in the first place - I think it was damaged but not failing! All damage was below the rings which I believe is what keeps the piston moving up & down correctly.
But since I'm giving the car to my daughter, I don't want it blowing up on her so it was the right thing to do. I almost pulled the trigger on replacing all five pistons, but they go for $120 apiece, and the ring kit is another $50 per. That's a bigger chunk of change than I wanted to add to the project - I'm already up to a butt-load of coin for this "tune up"!
In thinking about it, I'm not sure the piston was causing the noise since there isn't any scarring on the wall, so I'm wondering if I had to replace the piston in the first place - I think it was damaged but not failing! All damage was below the rings which I believe is what keeps the piston moving up & down correctly.
But since I'm giving the car to my daughter, I don't want it blowing up on her so it was the right thing to do. I almost pulled the trigger on replacing all five pistons, but they go for $120 apiece, and the ring kit is another $50 per. That's a bigger chunk of change than I wanted to add to the project - I'm already up to a butt-load of coin for this "tune up"!
#96
07-29-2012, 07:48 PM
I knew I had the smoke at startup so I did the seals when I did the lifters. Since the clicking didn't go away after the lifter job, I thought to replace the oil pan seals which has been known to cause a ticking sound. When I pulled the pan, I then saw the metal scrap in my pan and shortly thereafter, discovered the broken piston.
In thinking about it, I'm not sure the piston was causing the noise since there isn't any scarring on the wall, so I'm wondering if I had to replace the piston in the first place - I think it was damaged but not failing! All damage was below the rings which I believe is what keeps the piston moving up & down correctly.
But since I'm giving the car to my daughter, I don't want it blowing up on her so it was the right thing to do. I almost pulled the trigger on replacing all five pistons, but they go for $120 apiece, and the ring kit is another $50 per. That's a bigger chunk of change than I wanted to add to the project - I'm already up to a butt-load of coin for this "tune up"!
In thinking about it, I'm not sure the piston was causing the noise since there isn't any scarring on the wall, so I'm wondering if I had to replace the piston in the first place - I think it was damaged but not failing! All damage was below the rings which I believe is what keeps the piston moving up & down correctly.
But since I'm giving the car to my daughter, I don't want it blowing up on her so it was the right thing to do. I almost pulled the trigger on replacing all five pistons, but they go for $120 apiece, and the ring kit is another $50 per. That's a bigger chunk of change than I wanted to add to the project - I'm already up to a butt-load of coin for this "tune up"!
#97
07-30-2012, 08:01 AM
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So we were able to replace the piston and put everything back together to give it a test, but it would stumble and caugh and die after 3 seconds. As it was 4:30 am and I had a plane to catch in 6 hours, we called it a night. DrBrutal kindly offered to work on it while I was on vacation and rumor has it that in our haste to put it back together, we installed the cam sensor incorrectly. I've not heard the engine running, but I believe it is quite healthy and should go for another decade or so!
Had I had plenty of time and nothing better to do, I would have replaced the piston and put it back together to see if that would take care of the noise, without doing the sump gaskets, but I had to do both repairs at the same time, so I'll never be able to determine the exact issue - I'm a bit goofy that way...
Pulling the oil pan was a pain because of the power steering lines, but if you unbolt their two brackets (maybe three?) and then pry them to the drivers side - more than you think you should! - you'll be able to pull the pan. It's more of a pain to get it back in!
Had I had plenty of time and nothing better to do, I would have replaced the piston and put it back together to see if that would take care of the noise, without doing the sump gaskets, but I had to do both repairs at the same time, so I'll never be able to determine the exact issue - I'm a bit goofy that way...
Pulling the oil pan was a pain because of the power steering lines, but if you unbolt their two brackets (maybe three?) and then pry them to the drivers side - more than you think you should! - you'll be able to pull the pan. It's more of a pain to get it back in!
#98
07-30-2012, 09:21 AM
So we were able to replace the piston and put everything back together to give it a test, but it would stumble and caugh and die after 3 seconds. As it was 4:30 am and I had a plane to catch in 6 hours, we called it a night. DrBrutal kindly offered to work on it while I was on vacation and rumor has it that in our haste to put it back together, we installed the cam sensor incorrectly. I've not heard the engine running, but I believe it is quite healthy and should go for another decade or so!
Had I had plenty of time and nothing better to do, I would have replaced the piston and put it back together to see if that would take care of the noise, without doing the sump gaskets, but I had to do both repairs at the same time, so I'll never be able to determine the exact issue - I'm a bit goofy that way...
Pulling the oil pan was a pain because of the power steering lines, but if you unbolt their two brackets (maybe three?) and then pry them to the drivers side - more than you think you should! - you'll be able to pull the pan. It's more of a pain to get it back in!
Had I had plenty of time and nothing better to do, I would have replaced the piston and put it back together to see if that would take care of the noise, without doing the sump gaskets, but I had to do both repairs at the same time, so I'll never be able to determine the exact issue - I'm a bit goofy that way...
Pulling the oil pan was a pain because of the power steering lines, but if you unbolt their two brackets (maybe three?) and then pry them to the drivers side - more than you think you should! - you'll be able to pull the pan. It's more of a pain to get it back in!
#99
07-30-2012, 06:20 PM
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#100
08-09-2012, 12:35 AM
how did it go brother?did your noise stop and still there?l am planning to replace my oil pan seals probably next week.