In the morning when I start the engine the rpms go to 1300 rpm for maybe 2 seconds and then idles normally at 900 rpms. The exhaust fumes smell very rich, blue colored at the beginning, then they normalize after a while.

Temps here are 30C during the day, 15C during the night.

Any ideas besides worn rings?

 

Probably not rings, unless it smokes all the time. I bet it's valve guides (seals). I get a very minor puff upon startup if I haven't driven the car for over a day. I plan on doing the guides without removing the head. - AB

 

The car leaks/smokes about a quart of oil every 5000 miles. I wonder if that's avoidable without major cost.

 

Hi Axel,

Here are some cheap fix options I can think of at the moment:

1. Use heavierweight oil (10W40). This should be ok for 15-30C.
2. Use "High-Mileage Engine" oil (not sure exactly what the difference is, probably just a wording & a bit of extra additives).

Is there any external oil leak?Or is it all internal?


JPN

 

I am using already using 10W40 currently. For our temps it doesn't make much sense to pay an extra 30% for a support of broader temperature range. 20 years ago we sometimes had temps of -10C during winter, but now the coldest is -1C, with average morning temps at 10C, at noon at 20C. During summer morning temp is 20C, noon at 33C approx.

Synthetic vs semisynth is another discussion. I prefer more frequent oil and filter change with semisynth than spending the extra for synth. But that's just me. Oil in my country is not cheap, or at least it isn't for me.

I don't use Heavy Mileage Oil, just standard semisynth 10W40 from Elf Total. It's what they use here for highly compressed 1.6 engines N/A.

My doubt is if the semisynth is good enough for lubricating the bearings in the turbo. I guess onlt time will tell.

 

If you are using less than a quart between oil changes I wouldn't do a darn thing.

 

I'm with Jim. If you use a quart or less every 3,000 you have nothing to worry about.

 

Agreed here as well.
Also I have never seen a set of Valve guides or seals go bad unless the timing belt broke bending valves.

The vent system might be pumping oil into the intake burning it.
An injector might be leaking down causing smoke on start up.
Might be a combo of both.

 

ItĀ“s just that I hate having a smelly exhaust. I donĀ“t want to give the impression that IĀ“m too lazy/cheap/poor to fixmy old 850.

If my car is an old POS at least the engine has to run perfectly. IĀ“m going to take it to an injection specialist, letĀ“s see what he says.

 

I just came back from the A/C shop where they also do injection. The guy told me that itĀ“s probably a leaking injector or valve seals and that he has to take the head off to inspect it. Is that correct? No way IĀ“m spending that kind of money unless thereĀ“s a problem with the head gasket, which luckily appears to be fine since my coolant level is perfectly stable.

 

Hi Axel,

I too, was wondering about the rich mixture you mentioned beside the oil problem. As to the oil problem, yes it may not be a problem but I'm wondering about the blue smoke. Sometimes, a sudden jump in RPM after start up does seem to cause oil to burn, I witnessed it on my company's F350. It has been having idling problem, and after start up, the RPM jumped to some ridiculous RPM (no tach), and oil burned like crazy, blue smoke everywhere. I immediately turned the engine off, but when I re-started it, there was no more blue smoke. So, the excessive oil consumption may be due to the jump in idle. Since you don't want to take the head off, I think you can get by with having 2-3 quarts of oil in the trunk.

Since you are quite knowledgeable on modern cars, I assume your 850 has hadimpeccable tune up, means the fuel filter is good, air filter is good, throttle body has been cleaned, PCV system all checked, plugs & wires & cap & rotor all new, etc...

As to the injectors, you can remove each of them, inspect them one by one to see if any of them has valve that is stuck open, or dirty with gunk or carbon. Youwill need new sealing ring and silicone grease after removal, though. This procedure requires system pressureto bereleased (I'm sure you know it), Iusually do this by starting the engine, and remove the fuel pump fuse while the engine is at idle. The engine eventually dies, then I crank the engine for about 10 seconds. This pretty much releases the system pressure, though fuel dripwill still be there.

Fuel injectors use electro-magnetic valves (again, I'm sure you know it), so you could perhaps test each of them by applying specified voltage (12V?). Or, after removal you could either visually inspect them, or just hold them to see if any of them drips fuel (have a fire extinguisher handy just in case). All 5 injectors come off with the fuel rail, and each injector is installed onto the rail by O-ring, so you can pull them off.

As to the valve seals, I wonder you can check it by taking the valve cover off (you may need new cover gasket upon installation), pour oil around valve stems/camshafts, remove spark plugs and visually inspect the top of the pistons through the spark plug holes (may require strong lighting or bore-scope), while hand-turning the engine to see if there is oil inside the combustion chamber.

You could also try Techron fuel system cleaner as a cheap alternative. One bottle for a half tank, or two bottles for a full tank may do.

I hope the engine comes back to normal soon.


JPN

 

The injectors can be take out in about 5 minutes.

 

Thanks JPN and Tech for all the info. IĀ“ll research some more and post my findings.

Air filter is brand new. So are plugs, wires, distrib cap and rotor. I havenĀ“t cleaned the throttle body but the throttle seems to work fine. How does the ECU auto calibrate the zero degree position on the throttle? Does it check what the TPS potentiometer is returning in ohms when you turn the ignition on? Maybe the TPS is causing this side effect.

I personally think there is fuel being flooded (choked) into the engine during cranking.When the engine starts, the left off fuel makes the engine go to 1300 rpms, then it is burned and the rpms stay steady at 850-900.

Does this make any sense? Anybody have any good tutorials on checking valves and injectors?

 

Yes it measures Ohms.
But if the throttle has alot of build up on it then the sensor won't go backto proper settings.

 

Hi Axel,

Yes, what you say does make sense to me.

I would remove the injectors and visually inspect them first. This does not require removal of the head, and as M. Tech has noted, it can be removed in 5-10 minutes. I think there are only two bolts that are holding the fuel rail. I wouldfirst check for foreign object/cleanliness at the nozzle end. I then would hold the fuel rail with all the injectors attached to it and see if any of themis dripping fuel. After visual inspection, I would take out each injector and try cleaning the injector tips with Techron system cleaner. You could perhaps immerse all injectorsin Techron, but only the injector tips and avoid getting the stuff on the electrical connections. I would also scrub clean the tips with tooth brush or some non-abrasive brush. Shops use special cleaning equipment, FYI. After that, I may take the injectors off the fuel rail ans visually inspect the rail-end. Some injectors seem to have tiny "last-chance filters" in each injector.

Also, next time when you start the engine, remove all spark plugs before starting and visually inspect the inside the combustion chambers with a strong flashlight (halogen/spotter-type LED) to see if there is any fuel. This may reveal something.

850's cold idle is different from the cars I've been seeing, the idle speed comes down to normal in very short time. I once had an Accord and it used to take from 1 to 7 minutes for the fast idle to come down, depending on the ambient temp.

Also, when you turn the ignition switch to ACC position, does the CEL light? Ifnot, I would replace thebulb. If it doeslight at ACC and goes out, there may be no codes in the memory. I also wonder, if the idle air bypass system is faulty. It's impossible to say what's wrong, without actually taking a look/testing the car (I don't trust Car Talk guys, they are mere comedians).

Well, I'll wait for further report.

Good night,


JPN

 

JPN,

I bought some injector cleaner additive (Techron is not available here) and fueled 50 liters of mid grade. Let's see if anything changes.

I have to take the car to a lube center with a ramp and check out under the car. I have seen huge amounts of gucky horrible oil, probably RMS.

There was also oil dripping from the cooling fan. How is that possible?

Regards

 

Oil cooler lines would make it leak by the cooling fan.

 

Hi Axel,

Just came back from work. Working on airport ramp when it's minus 10C isn't the best thing to do, but I'd rather do this than sit in an office and deal with some nonsensical paperwork.

Anyway, I agree with Tech (I finally decided to take off Mr. or M., as everyone is calling him Tech, and since Tech is the only "Tech" on this forum). Anyway, the oil cooler line is notorious for leaking oil, I just replaced mine recently. It's wonderful to have a leak-free 850! Check the hoses that attaches to the oil cooler, which is right by the radiator. Very often, oil seems to leak from the joint between the rubber(?) hose and metal connection.

As for injector/fuel systemcleaner, I guess any type is ok, as long as it says it's safe for O2 sensor and cat-converter.

It may also be worth pulling codes to see if there is any. In United States, there are AutoZones where they can test your OBD-II for free, but I'm not sure if there are any in Argentina. Ask to see if your A?C & Injector shop can do this for a minimum charge, if the have an OBD-II scanner.

I'll wait for the next reply...


JPN

 

I inspected the oil radiator line last week to check for a leak. It was a bit dirty, couldnĀ“t tell if it was sticky dirt or oil, so I cleaned it and waited for the oil to reappear. I also used a grease remover spray to clean the part of the oil radiator that is directly below the metal/rubber joint.

Now there is oil there again so it is definitely leaking. I also saw that there was some oil on the lowest part of the cooling fan. If I touched it with my hand it would barely drip, but as Tech says its probably coming from the oil radiator.

Regarding fixing the joint, is that complicated? Can I do it myself? Do I need special Volvo parts or is it just a small gasket/o-ring that has to be changed. Should I check for play (movement) in the insertion of the line into the oil radiator?

I also found an incredible amount of gunky oil under the car. Looks like a blown rear main seal. I have bought more engine degreaser spray yesterday to continue cleaning, but I havenĀ“t had time yet.

Another question, is it worthwhile to do the horn mod to give more air to the intercooler? I donĀ“t know how well this car performs in hot weather, but coming from Sweden the design is obviously emphasized for cold weather. Maybe 15% more cold air would help the radiator and cooling fan keep the rest of the system within the expected temperature range.

I have my own PC-based code reader. I bought it here: www.obd-2.com. ItĀ“s the TriCan version. I could have bout the ISO-only version for half the price but I want a reader that will support all thje protocols just in case I need to read another car.

 

Hi Axel,

If the leak is from the connection between the oil cooler and the line, you can just replace the sealing ring + O-ring. The connection is held by a metal retainer clip, which can be removed with a plier. I use snap-ring plier to spread it. But if the leak is from the joint between the metal portion of the line & the rubber hose, you may need a new hose assembly, which I did (hefty US $90!). I first tried Permatex's "Most Oil Resistant" liquid RTV gasket around the joint, but it didn't do any good. When I change oil, I usually drain the oil cooler as well, and the sealing ring + O-ring seem to be quite robust and so far I haven't changed them and there is no leak, though I do have spare parts.

As to the horns, I'm not sure if it would improve the performance, it sure would improve some air flow if you can re-locate them. I wonder why Volvo engineers decided to put the horns right in front of the radiator, sometimes Swedish engineering seems peculiar, but I guess it's part of the attractiveness (?).

As to the RMS, as long as it's not spraying oil out or if oil isn't getting near any rubber belt,replacement probably can be deferred until a bit later.

I hope this helps.


JPN