Looking to get into my first Volvo 850T. I drove it tonight. Fun!

*edit* No flashing arrow or cel light

The car I am buying from a dealer who got it at auction, but has a tranny problem. What is known.
1) 122k on the clock
2) Tbelt at 118k
3) Clean overall Price is right because of tranny.

He brought it to a friend mechanic who said it could be the TPS or other sensors...

Here's the deal.

Starts accelerating fine. Kind of jumps into 2nd gear, not exactly smooth, but not slamming either. Is okay when accelerating or getting on it.

It has a lot of trouble coming down from gear. Seems like it stays stuck in 3rd or 4th, and sounds like it's lugging the engine (staying in too high a gear, like a manual car in a high gear).

What he has been doing is when coming to stop, taking it from Drive to Neutral, it drops down, and then putting it back and drive and going.. Has put 2k on it doing this.

Should I buy this? What should I be looking for? I've been searching and reading all I can all day today! Throttle Position Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor (I think), PNP (what is it) *edit* Park Neutral Position! Search rocks?
What manual should I get? Haynes? Bentley? Volvo OEM? I have no idea where these are on the car! I'd like to safe this 850T from doom... I'm intently awaiting all replies and will answer any questions! I really want to get it but worried I'm getting in over my head. Price is $1500, I think I can get it for $1400 out the door... decent shape otherwise.

Help! So excited I'm going to have trouble sleeping tonight.
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All Current Diagnostics/Steps Take Towards Resolution
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* Drove the car to work today (Aug 27). It stays in too high a gear if just left to it's own in Drive. Driving in L, then getting to about 4Krpm and 20+mph, I shift up manually to 3, and I come in around 1200RPM, and just barely bogs. As long as I am going level, it's fine... on hills, it will bog unhappily but keep moving

*WILL ATTEMPT*
A) Verify the trans fluid is red and clear (myself) -> https://volvoforums.com/m_48928/tm.htm

B) More Ratcheting from P to L (is this done with the car RUNNING, or just in the ON position?)
*ATTEMPTED/VERIFIED*
A) JiffyLube, checked fluid and level and said it was right on, did not add any or comment negatively on condition. I will check tomorrow at work!
B) Finally! Made a difference after about 40x Up-down! Had good shifting 1-2-3-4 and then back down 4-3-2-1 (though not as smooth). It did resort to getting stuck again shortly, and almost stalling out coming to stop, but I am 90%+ sure it's the PNP. Ordered a new one from FCPGroton
*SUSPECT*
- Throttle Position Sensor (TPS)
- Fix TPS ->
- Park Neutral Position switch (PNP) - Definitely my prime suspect. New part on the way!
- Replace PNP -> http://volvospeed.com/Repair/pnpswitch.php
*REPLACED*
- Nothing at this point

 

Hi,

Welcome to the forum, I hope you find it helpful & enjoyable.

As to the decision making, it probably is worth the money, that is, only if you are ready for the worst case scenario; a rebuilt transmission or one from junk yard (approx. $1500? Other members can tell you accurate figures).

When you turn the ignition switch to position-II, does the transmission arrow illuminate? Is the mode control switch in the normal? Make sure it isn't in snow mode. Then, I would check to see if there are any codes in the transmission control ECU (generally referred to as TCM: Transmission Control Module). If it's '93-'95 model, you can check the codes manually, but if it's '96/'97, have a visit to a local AutoZone or any auto parts shop that provides free OBD-II diagnostic service. Once you have the code(s), post them here so we can better help you.

Lastly, I would check the proper level & condition of the transmission fluid (Dexron-III/Mercon). You probably know, that it should be clear red and should not have burnt odor to it. Also, you know how to check for transmission fluid level, right? It is not like checking for engine oil level, I assume you know the procedure, but if you don't, let me know or refer to the following thread:

https://volvoforums.com/m_48928/tm.htm

Will wait for your reply. I hope you can get some sleep tonight.

P.S: Tech won't be available for a while (assuming a couple of weeks), but when he returns your problem would be solved.


JPN

 

Thank you so much for posting. Worst case is there is a turbo wagon that hit in the front just enough to make it a parts car, I could buy it (drives) and have the trans swapped.

I think I'm going to get it. Then I can post and go out and try. The up arrow comes on when all the regular idiot lights come on, but not while driving. The car pulls great. I'll re-read your post a dozen times from work tomorrow. Time for bed. Is Tech okay?

*edit*

I put it in snow, econ, and sport (to make sure the light changes/switch worked/looked like it was working). It was definitely hanging in gear (staying in high and now coming down). I am going to call the guy and pick it up this afternoon, but I won't be able to play with it much until Sunday night/when I get home! Needs inspection too though, and a tire rotation. I did not check the ATF, but the seller/dealer did and said it was okay. I think I'll check it myself, reading thread!

 

Hi,

I just got back from work.

Yes, Tech is ok, he just had to travel for family reason, whose reason is posted in the Off Topic section, if you're wanting to know.

Flushing the transmission is worth a try. There is a flushing kit that seems to be easy to use but you need about 10 quarts of Dexron-III/Mercon.

Anyway, it's good that you have a donor car.

I wish you luck.


JPN

 

Hey,
Hope the purchase went well. That staying in gear till it stops, does it cause it to stall? I know on my Explorer transmission that was a common occurance when the torque converter lockup solenoid was bad. That is usually on the valve body and can be replaced by dropping the pan to get to the valve body and unplugging the electric connector to it and popping the old out and new in. Plug it in, cover back on, refill or better yet flush then and problem solved most likely in the $200 range ballpark. I am trying to find a manual for the AW50-42L and if I locate one it will have more info. Be worth having a trusted transmission shop look at with the above info relayed to them so they will know you are not just another unknowledgable guy ( not saying you are) but actually would be on to them if they tried to rip you. Get a diagnosis and estimate and Tech could tell you what to do. Get a few tips from members on here and run it by them, it lets them know you are not easy prey to get ripped off.

Good luck with it, sounds like a pretty good deal.

 

Yes, it has stalled once or twice since I've owned it. Torque converter solenoid you say? Is this listed in the bay 13 or anything? The procedure (pics), where to get the part, etc.

 

Hi Rob,

This place has one for about $40:

https://www.volvotechinfo.com/index....81619D09854D5D

Hi phoenix,

As to where you can buy one, I don't know other than junk yards. I'll let other members tell you where you can find one, either new or used.


JPN

 

I don't think it is listed there. I am basing it on the symptoms being similiar to symptoms of a bad torque converter lockup solenoid on a Ford trans but there must be something similiar in the A50-42L used on 850's. Let me look through the factory manual, saw something on a couple of solenoids. I have contemplated ordering a transmission manual for the Volvo trans. I found one somewhere for $50 for a hardcopy or $30 for a download. Diagnosis, teardown, rebuild. Might be handy to have.

Looked through the auto trans diagnosis of volvo manual and solenoid 3 controls torque converter lockup. Cannot attach the PDF to this but if you want me to email it to you send me a PM with your email. I would get a transmisson place to look at it with that info disclosed to them. That would be a cheap fix. 1 and 2 control gear shifting while 3 is the torque converter lockup and 4 is the line pressure regulator.

Let me know if you want a copy of what is in the volvo factory manual regarding the auto.







.

 

[quote]ORIGINAL: JPN

Hi Rob,

This place has one for about $40:

https://www.volvotechinfo.com/index....81619D09854D5D


Hey JPN,
I looked at that and they have two, one being $39 and the other in the $50 ish range. I wonder what the difference is? Hmm. I found the info about the solenoids in the 95 Factory manual under the auto trans diagnosis but it did not talk about replacing them. I dove into a valve body upgrade on the wifes Explorer and learned alot but the ultimate problem was it needed a rebuild. Now the symptoms described here earlier though sound exactly like a flaking number 3 solenoid not unlocking the torque converter as the car comes to a stop. There is strength in knowledge when you go to any auto trans shop. Tends to save on being pushed a rebuilt upfront. [:@] I might download that ATSG manual for the heck of it for $30 and see what they show. Problem is they show you how to checkout after paying for the download but no FAQ on when a link to download will be sent to you. That makes me leary to order right away but curiosity is killing me on the inner workings of the A50-42L.

I will see what I can dig up but worst case I would take the car to a reputable transmisson place and describe the stalling and difficulty with it and just ask it the torque converter lock up solenoid might be the culprit. At least then they know you have looked into various causes for the symptoms you have and will be less likely to try to force a rebuild on you if you don't need one. What do you think JPN?

 

Hi Rob,

I think the difference between the $40 and $50 manuals is the model year; the first covers '93 to '95, whereas the latter covers '96& '97.

I too, would love to take apart the gearbox. I believe the gears are all right, it is the control mechanism that is malfunctioning (solenoids, hydraulic systems, electronic control, clutch plates, etc...). It seems like there are 2 major automatic transmission types; popular hydraulic, planetary-gear types and Honda types. It is commonly known that even a tiny bit of FOD can screw up an automatic transmission, as a FOD can clog tiny hydraulic passages.

The factory manual does not recommend repair of the gearbox, as you know. But when they say "no", it makes me want to do it more than if they say "yes". For swapping, I would definitely avoid franchise shops such as A@mco, etc...

Did I answer your question? Let me know if I didn't, so that I'll elaborate again.


JPN

 

Hey JPN,
That answered my question. I agree 100% with you. There are a few decent transmission shops out there but the chains have never fallen into that catagory. [:'(] Most dealerships are good about telling you who does their transmission work if it is not a rebuilt going in by the dealer. Usually they refer the ones out that need valve body work and such to the transmission shop they get the least return backs from. I learned the hard way that Ford transmissions were famous for blowing out the seperator plate that is the gasket between the valve body and the transmission case. That would let fluid pressure leak out and thus not actuate required solenoids and servos giving you no reverse or no braking in L1. Easy fix with the modified parts from Ford but often the cars were towed to an Amoco or Mr. Transmission and the customer was promptly given the bad news that the transmission was shot and needed a total rebuild. In reality, a $30 part and less than $150 in labor would have it back good as new. Luckily, I learned this on a Ford forum and saved myself this disaster but only by a hair.

I would definetly ask relatives or the dealership or friends at work for a referal to a decent independent shop to look at the problem you are having. Tech will possibly be back soon and can jump in here too. He may have seen this problem before too and can say for sure if it is a torque converter lock up solenoid or not. Those connect to the valve body and like JPN mentioned, any FOD can stop it up and cause it to stick or maybe plug a passage to it in the valve body.

 

What's an FOD?

Driving the car to work tomorrow, I will take note of what I see and how it drives...

Trying to find the thread about ratcheting between P and L 15-20 times to clean the contact on the PNP switch or something I read somewhere...


Synopsis... It stays in too high a gear when in Drive, and has trouble coming down gears when slowing down...

To drive, I go from L(ow), rev to about 4k, then go to 3rd (next option available of course), and then D(rive) if going to higher speeds...

=) Had trouble with the part link, can I get the name or # so I can search it (that site did not allow that link, probably a temporary ASP page or something). Also, is that part INSIDE the trans? I do not have the facility to really drop the trans out or anything, I was hoping for an external switch/sensor/solenoid... =)

*edited original post in order to show what's been done so far*

 

Hi Phoenix,

FOD = Foreign Object Debris, or Foreign Object Damage.

If a tiny object enters the transmission through the dipstick tube, that will sure to cause malfunctioning transmission. There are tiny hydraulic passages inside the gearbox, and if one of the passages gets clogged, it will prevent the proper operation of the gearbox.

The lockup solenoid seems to be on the left side of the tranny, which you may be able to access without dropping the gearbox.

I hope this gives you some ideas.


JPN

 

I was thinking PNP though, but I do not have the indicative up arrow... which I have read is 'rare' to not have the uparrow AND have it be the PNP. Going to give the 15-20 ratchets a try from P to L, apparently car has to be on/running! =)

Any thoughts on this? Would rather do this myself but without throwing parts at it... You know? Getting the oil changed at lunch (it's there now, wanted to do the ATF flush but the place didn't want to since if never done, well, putting in clean fluid can make it worse, etc, and would not guarentee the work.) They said they would check the level and condition for me though.

Waiting to hear on that, hopefully they won't be retarded (it's a quick-lube type place).

 

Hi Phoenix,

I would never take a Volvo to a quick-lube kind of place or generic town garages. Working on it on your own is the best way, except for those repairs that require $10,000 equipment (such as wheel alignment). The reason why you want to stay away from quick-lube type placesis that they are often the places for inexperienced/non-ASE certifiedmechanics.

Yes, sometimes an introduction of fresh fluid into a tranny that has been neglected for years can cause some problems. This is due to the gunk formed by the original fluid, and if fresh fluid is introduced in the system, the gunk may dislodge and can clog up a tiny hydraulic passage, which leads to more problems.

If the car has never had tranny fluid replacement, it may be best just to keep an eye on the fluid level, and top up as necessary.

I hope this gives you some ideas.


JPN

 

I much prefer the Zen of doing it yourself, but the dealer got it from auction (you know it didn't have fresh oil), he put about 2k on it (you know he didn't bother replacing), so it just needs to get done asap, could be 6 months and 5k miles on oil nasty oil... I thought that if tranny fluid left too long, it actually had abraisive characteristics that help the trans function, and clear/slippy fluid would actually result in a slipping trans due to being too clean. So they aren't going to do it, if I cannot get some hard and fast 'try this, if it does this, then it's that', I'll have to bring it 'some place'. Do we have a regional board/recommended places to reference?

Found another person with the same staysin a high gear (JPN you posted there first) symptom, hopefully they will stick around and post what was found.

 

Hey,
Regarding solenoid replacement in the valve body I am almost 100% certain that can be done without removing the transmission. Tech would likely know for sure when he gets back. I just had mine out and I will see if I can go through some pictures later that I took and find the cover that comes off that should give access to those solenoids. I would find someone as far as a good independent transmission shop to confirm the results first. Diagnosis would be fairly inexpensive. Generally if the PNP is causing problems it does give the flashing up arrow. With that said, my reverse lights are not working and there is no flashing arrow for that so that may not be a definitve thing. I hope to test my PNP tonight after my PTA meeting at my daughters school. I had the flashing arrow and check engine last winter and did the ratchet cleaning, pulled the battery to clear codes (before I had my scanner) and arrow was gone. Having seen the inside of the PNP (See post about cleaning PNP) I can see how that process could temporarily work.
I will try to post more this evening. I do think though that if the culprit was a sticking solenoid it could be replaced without pulling the transmission. I know on my Explorer I was able to drop the pan and the valve body and solenoids were right there in the open. Seems like our autos are similiar though the cover is on the side I think. If Tech does not get back soon I will have to buy that transmission manual.

 

I believe in this photo of my tranny seperated from the motor the black cover near the cooler hoses is the cover that comes off to access the solenoids. Take a peek and you might see what I am trying to identify.



[IMG]local://upfiles/1785/3B41B55DBB4045C1825CD8FF8B2E1EFE.jpg[/IMG]

 

As I type this I am downloading the ATSG (Automatic Transmission Service Group) manual for the AW50-42L. 50 Meg download in PDF format. Hope it will shed some light on the solenoid location and difficulty of replacement. I was always curious of the inner workings of this trans. so this should be fun to read. Another 20 minutes or so and I should have it all. Now help me come up with an excuse for ordering for when the wife sees it on our credit card statement. JPN, I could use some wisdom here!
Her face[:@], my face playing dazed and confused of the charges[], my face after the screaming match[sm=imsorry.gif] Ha, ha!

 

Updating original post!

90% sure it's the PNP!! I ratcheted like ~20 four-count P-L... Put it in drive, did first, to a relatively smooth transition to second, to third, etc, and back down almost as smooth... Needed to keep ratcheting it between trips to the supermarket and whatnot, but that there was ANY improvement seems to indicate the PNP! Going to order one now, though I didn't see it on FCPGroton (spelling) site... looking again!