Strange noise
#1
09-16-2005, 11:06 AM
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Strange noise
Hello all,
Maybe some off you can help me with the following problem.
When driving my S40 '96 there is sometimes a strange noise (klonk) to be heard from the right hand front side. It happens when you start driving and start braking. Sometimes it even does it after i have changed gears (manual gearbox).
During sharp turns nothing to be heard. Brought the car to the dealer but they couldn't find anything. Dealer advised me to book it in for a closer inspection but it probably would take a while before they are able to locate the problem and then offcourse the repair has to be made. At the moment the going rate for the dealer (UK) is approx. 150 dollars/hour[sm=boohoo.gif] and that is without parts. As you probably can imagine i would first like to explore other sources (Volvo forums) to rectify this problem.
On the Dutch forum a was advised to take a look at the engine mountings but they are in good shape so it has to be something else. The car drives really well and it is very precise in when steering so i don't expect a problem with a worn busching or something like that.
Any ideas??
Thanks in advance.
FT
Maybe some off you can help me with the following problem.
When driving my S40 '96 there is sometimes a strange noise (klonk) to be heard from the right hand front side. It happens when you start driving and start braking. Sometimes it even does it after i have changed gears (manual gearbox).
During sharp turns nothing to be heard. Brought the car to the dealer but they couldn't find anything. Dealer advised me to book it in for a closer inspection but it probably would take a while before they are able to locate the problem and then offcourse the repair has to be made. At the moment the going rate for the dealer (UK) is approx. 150 dollars/hour[sm=boohoo.gif] and that is without parts. As you probably can imagine i would first like to explore other sources (Volvo forums) to rectify this problem.
On the Dutch forum a was advised to take a look at the engine mountings but they are in good shape so it has to be something else. The car drives really well and it is very precise in when steering so i don't expect a problem with a worn busching or something like that.
Any ideas??
Thanks in advance.
FT
#2
09-16-2005, 01:59 PM
RE: Strange noise
The engine mounts on the S40 really are the main suspect, their reputation goes before them! Your description kind of points this way too.
Other possibilities include driveshaft, ball joints, suspension mounts etc. but my £1 is on engine mount(s), especially upper. I would say wheel bearings & maybe anti-roll bar bushes too, but if no noise on cornering/turning then these seem unlikely suspects.
Would be interested to hear what you do finally pin it down to!
Other possibilities include driveshaft, ball joints, suspension mounts etc. but my £1 is on engine mount(s), especially upper. I would say wheel bearings & maybe anti-roll bar bushes too, but if no noise on cornering/turning then these seem unlikely suspects.
Would be interested to hear what you do finally pin it down to!
#3
09-16-2005, 02:17 PM
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RE: Strange noise
Thanx BB,
I have taken the engine mountings apart already but they looked in a really good condition. Maybe i will change just to rule out that they are causing the problem.
It doesnt make any noises on cornering/turning. Just went to the the store and i noticed that almost every time i release the accelerator i hear the noise. The strange thing is that it seems to be more pronounced when it is wet. During summer period i've hardly heard it but when it rains you hear it every time i accelerate or lift my foot of the accelerator.
As far as i am aware when the wheel bearings are worn you normally hear this during cornering so this is unlikely. But could it be some play on the anti-roll bar bushes?? Or do you hear this aswell during cornering.
Cheers.
I have taken the engine mountings apart already but they looked in a really good condition. Maybe i will change just to rule out that they are causing the problem.
It doesnt make any noises on cornering/turning. Just went to the the store and i noticed that almost every time i release the accelerator i hear the noise. The strange thing is that it seems to be more pronounced when it is wet. During summer period i've hardly heard it but when it rains you hear it every time i accelerate or lift my foot of the accelerator.
As far as i am aware when the wheel bearings are worn you normally hear this during cornering so this is unlikely. But could it be some play on the anti-roll bar bushes?? Or do you hear this aswell during cornering.
Cheers.
#4
09-16-2005, 04:28 PM
RE: Strange noise
I'm wondering whether you can reproduce the noise when stationary, by revving the engine/lifting off of the accelerator? If so then those engine mounts need an even closer look.
Front anti-roll bar bushes are another known weakness on S40/V40, which is why I mentioned them. Volvo replaced them on my July 2002 car a few days before the original 3 year warranty expired (& I then bought the car!). I managed to get the salesman at the main dealership where I bought the car to show me Volvo's system - the service history pages - the original owner had reported a "knocking noise" from the front of the car & Volvo's technicians tracked it down to worn anti-roll bar bushes & replaced them.
Having double-checked my workshop manual (I wimped out of diving under the car for another look because it is raining here - sorry!), it seems that to gain access to the anti-roll bar mounting clamps you have to lower the subframe assembly..... If you tackle the job yourself, as well as the new bushes you will need new retaining nuts for the anti-roll bar connecting links (I think they are of the "Nyloc" type).
Have you had the chance yet to carefully inspect all gaiters, balljoints etc? You've mentioned noise is worse in the rain - water could be lubricating worn mounting bushes & make unwanted movement (& hence knocking) worse. A torn/slipped driveshaft gaiter will let balljoint grease escape & will let water in to corrode/seize the joint & this too will give a knocking noise on acceleration & when lifting the throttle.
Really hope this helps, when you do work out what it is, please do share the info.
Front anti-roll bar bushes are another known weakness on S40/V40, which is why I mentioned them. Volvo replaced them on my July 2002 car a few days before the original 3 year warranty expired (& I then bought the car!). I managed to get the salesman at the main dealership where I bought the car to show me Volvo's system - the service history pages - the original owner had reported a "knocking noise" from the front of the car & Volvo's technicians tracked it down to worn anti-roll bar bushes & replaced them.
Having double-checked my workshop manual (I wimped out of diving under the car for another look because it is raining here - sorry!), it seems that to gain access to the anti-roll bar mounting clamps you have to lower the subframe assembly..... If you tackle the job yourself, as well as the new bushes you will need new retaining nuts for the anti-roll bar connecting links (I think they are of the "Nyloc" type).
Have you had the chance yet to carefully inspect all gaiters, balljoints etc? You've mentioned noise is worse in the rain - water could be lubricating worn mounting bushes & make unwanted movement (& hence knocking) worse. A torn/slipped driveshaft gaiter will let balljoint grease escape & will let water in to corrode/seize the joint & this too will give a knocking noise on acceleration & when lifting the throttle.
Really hope this helps, when you do work out what it is, please do share the info.
#5
09-16-2005, 07:20 PM
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RE: Strange noise
BB,
Before i removed the engine mounts i tried to rev the engine but no sound was heard. Therefore it is unlikely that they are the cause of the problem but just to make sure a removed them for an inspection but they are allright.
At the moment i have checked almost all the gaitors and balljoints even checked all nuts and bolts on torque setting. So far so good.
When i have time i will take a closer look at the anti-roll bar bushes. But in the Haynes manual they mention that you need an engine support when you unbolt the subframe. My current driveway is made out of gravel so not really a suitable surface for this kind of job.
But in november i have got a weeks leave and will drive back to the netherlands where i have got better facilities for this kind of job.
But when i find and rectify the problem i will certainly post it on the forum.
Thanx for your advice.
Before i removed the engine mounts i tried to rev the engine but no sound was heard. Therefore it is unlikely that they are the cause of the problem but just to make sure a removed them for an inspection but they are allright.
At the moment i have checked almost all the gaitors and balljoints even checked all nuts and bolts on torque setting. So far so good.
When i have time i will take a closer look at the anti-roll bar bushes. But in the Haynes manual they mention that you need an engine support when you unbolt the subframe. My current driveway is made out of gravel so not really a suitable surface for this kind of job.
But in november i have got a weeks leave and will drive back to the netherlands where i have got better facilities for this kind of job.
But when i find and rectify the problem i will certainly post it on the forum.
Thanx for your advice.
#6
09-16-2005, 07:56 PM
RE: Strange noise
Only you can make final decision but using say a strong plank or sheet of wood to spread weight across gravel, you could use a trolley jack with a small block of wood on top to support the engine/gearbox. You'll be underneath it so as I said, only you can decide Flying torquewrench! Once supported with the jack, a tall axle stand may also secure the weight better & give you additional peace of mind.
Thanks for promising to keep us posted - interested to know the outcome.
Thanks for promising to keep us posted - interested to know the outcome.
#7
09-16-2005, 08:42 PM
#8
09-17-2005, 07:08 AM
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RE: Strange noise
Tech,
I have inspected all engine mounts carefully and they all seem to be in a good condition.
Looked around on several volvo forums and almost everybody say's that if it is an engine mount you will hear the knocking when you rev the engine with the hood open. What isyour opinion on this statement? Can you please explain why you think it is an engine mount?
BB,
Besides the gravel driveway i have got some other things to do. Moving house before november 1st and for my work i am out of the country for three weeks. But i will report back on this forum it only can take a little while.
Has somebody maybe an idea how much these anti-roll bar bushings and engine mounts cost? Because at this point i can not pinpoint the exact mount or bushing which is faulty so i will start replacing mounting and bushings. One at the time offcourse and see if the problem goes away.
Thanx for all your input.
I have inspected all engine mounts carefully and they all seem to be in a good condition.
Looked around on several volvo forums and almost everybody say's that if it is an engine mount you will hear the knocking when you rev the engine with the hood open. What isyour opinion on this statement? Can you please explain why you think it is an engine mount?
BB,
Besides the gravel driveway i have got some other things to do. Moving house before november 1st and for my work i am out of the country for three weeks. But i will report back on this forum it only can take a little while.
Has somebody maybe an idea how much these anti-roll bar bushings and engine mounts cost? Because at this point i can not pinpoint the exact mount or bushing which is faulty so i will start replacing mounting and bushings. One at the time offcourse and see if the problem goes away.
Thanx for all your input.
#9
09-17-2005, 07:52 AM
RE: Strange noise
Tech's "The Man" but if you want my pennyworth on the engine mount(s), then if you have been driving the car for a while & got used to how it feels/drives and all its noises & if a mount has only just started to go then it may be worse when the engine is under strain connected to the transmission & front road wheels. Over time it may slowly worsen to the point where, as I suggested above, you can reproduce the noise by revving the engine whilst stationary. Any chance you can get it on a rolling road at your friendly local garage, put it in gear etc.?
The S40 & V40 are simply notorious for engine mounts, especially upper, must be a design thing.
The anti-roll bar bushes aren't a quick job if carefully DIY, I can't imagine having time to do it when preparing to move house!
Mounting bushes should be reasonably priced (for Volvo!) - for price comparison, why not give the spares dept. at your local dealership a call (you may need your chassis number). Many shut by midday/12.30 p.m. on a Saturday though. Also worth checking previous posts on this subject, as other owners may have found equal or superior non-Volvo parts that offer better value for money.
Best of luck Flying torquewrench (great name by the way!), look forward to long-term developments with interest.
Tech?
The S40 & V40 are simply notorious for engine mounts, especially upper, must be a design thing.
The anti-roll bar bushes aren't a quick job if carefully DIY, I can't imagine having time to do it when preparing to move house!
Mounting bushes should be reasonably priced (for Volvo!) - for price comparison, why not give the spares dept. at your local dealership a call (you may need your chassis number). Many shut by midday/12.30 p.m. on a Saturday though. Also worth checking previous posts on this subject, as other owners may have found equal or superior non-Volvo parts that offer better value for money.
Best of luck Flying torquewrench (great name by the way!), look forward to long-term developments with interest.
Tech?
#10
09-17-2005, 10:28 AM
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RE: Strange noise
Black Beauty,
Tech is definetely The Man and i very much appreciate his input and the same goes for you.
I will see if i can free up some time to put it on a rolling road. Good idea by the way didn't think about that myself.
The strange thing with the problem being an engine mount is that it becomes worse when it is wet. I can imagine that a bushing on the suspension or steering mechanism becomes wet during rain but a upper engine mount? But your explanation in your last post sounds logical.
But obviuosly Tech and yourself know what you are talking about so i will follow your advice. It is offcourse quite difficult to give a solution for a problem if the only thing you know about the problem is by the way i describe it in my initial post.
Thanx again.
Tech is definetely The Man and i very much appreciate his input and the same goes for you.
I will see if i can free up some time to put it on a rolling road. Good idea by the way didn't think about that myself.
The strange thing with the problem being an engine mount is that it becomes worse when it is wet. I can imagine that a bushing on the suspension or steering mechanism becomes wet during rain but a upper engine mount? But your explanation in your last post sounds logical.
But obviuosly Tech and yourself know what you are talking about so i will follow your advice. It is offcourse quite difficult to give a solution for a problem if the only thing you know about the problem is by the way i describe it in my initial post.
Thanx again.
#11
09-17-2005, 11:56 AM
RE: Strange noise
I wish I had a picture of the one mount I think it could be.The one on the right side of the car.Open the hood and look on the back of the mount where the bolt goes through.There should be a white peice on the center of the mount.Look and see if the mount is sitting on top of the white peice.If it is then it is bad and the engine is just supported on that side by the metal and not the rubber.
Also jack it up and try to wiggle the sway bar. Some times the aluminum bracket holding the sway bar to the body of the car will break.And the sway bar will flop around. HOPEFULLY not it that is really hard to replace.
Also jack it up and try to wiggle the sway bar. Some times the aluminum bracket holding the sway bar to the body of the car will break.And the sway bar will flop around. HOPEFULLY not it that is really hard to replace.
#12
09-17-2005, 01:17 PM
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RE: Strange noise
Tech,
I know which engine mount you mean and i already removed this one for a closer inspection but it seems to be in a really good condition. Just read your reply and had another look at it but the metal is nicely supported by the rubber.
Removal and installation are done by use of the Haynes manual so there should be no confusion about the left and right.
Can you tell me if the following is true? A friend told me that if the anti-roll bar bushes are worn you should feel this also on a uneven road. Due to how the anti-roll bar is connected to the car? Currently i don't feel aanything during driving and it doesn't matter in which dondition the road surface is.
When the car is jacked up i treid to wiggle both wheels but they are rock solid. Because if there is some movement in them this can be caused by some worn bushes. But (un)fortunately this was not the case.
I know which engine mount you mean and i already removed this one for a closer inspection but it seems to be in a really good condition. Just read your reply and had another look at it but the metal is nicely supported by the rubber.
Removal and installation are done by use of the Haynes manual so there should be no confusion about the left and right.
Can you tell me if the following is true? A friend told me that if the anti-roll bar bushes are worn you should feel this also on a uneven road. Due to how the anti-roll bar is connected to the car? Currently i don't feel aanything during driving and it doesn't matter in which dondition the road surface is.
When the car is jacked up i treid to wiggle both wheels but they are rock solid. Because if there is some movement in them this can be caused by some worn bushes. But (un)fortunately this was not the case.
#13
09-17-2005, 05:29 PM
#14
09-23-2005, 02:23 PM
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RE: Strange noise
Tech,
Just a quick question for you. When you remove the engine mounts you need to support the enigine with a trolley jack. The last time i removed them i placed the jack with a block of wood on it under the oil sump. However the haynes manual states that you should not place the jack (with wooden block) under the oil sump.
What is your point off view? When i used the wooden block under the sump i did not encounter any problema at all. Where do you recommend that people place their jacks to support the engine.
Thanks for your reply.
FT
Just a quick question for you. When you remove the engine mounts you need to support the enigine with a trolley jack. The last time i removed them i placed the jack with a block of wood on it under the oil sump. However the haynes manual states that you should not place the jack (with wooden block) under the oil sump.
What is your point off view? When i used the wooden block under the sump i did not encounter any problema at all. Where do you recommend that people place their jacks to support the engine.
Thanks for your reply.
FT
#16
10-20-2005, 05:17 PM
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RE: Strange noise
Finally had some time to investigate the problem a little bit more. Checked the anti roll bar bushings but they are fine. With my Haynes manual in hand checked all remaining bushings i could find and they are all in a good condition.
However i have noticed that the two rubber bits sticking out of the right hand engine mount are sometimes riding against the metal. Cleaned the area and applied some grease and then drove the car for a little while. On my subsequent inspection found grease covering the rubber bits from the engine mount. But it only makes contact when the engine needs to do some work (in gear) and not when revving the engine with the gear disconnected.
So i am looking for a good parts dealer for a right hand engine mount. Please be advised this has to be in the UK. It may be in the states but most US companies don't ship worldwide unless you have a billing adress in the states.
FT
However i have noticed that the two rubber bits sticking out of the right hand engine mount are sometimes riding against the metal. Cleaned the area and applied some grease and then drove the car for a little while. On my subsequent inspection found grease covering the rubber bits from the engine mount. But it only makes contact when the engine needs to do some work (in gear) and not when revving the engine with the gear disconnected.
So i am looking for a good parts dealer for a right hand engine mount. Please be advised this has to be in the UK. It may be in the states but most US companies don't ship worldwide unless you have a billing adress in the states.
FT
#17
10-20-2005, 08:02 PM
RE: Strange noise
ORIGINAL: Black Beauty T4
Tech's "The Man" but if you want my pennyworth on the engine mount(s), then if you have been driving the car for a while & got used to how it feels/drives and all its noises & if a mount has only just started to go then it may be worse when the engine is under strain connected to the transmission & front road wheels. Over time it may slowly worsen to the point where, as I suggested above, you can reproduce the noise by revving the engine whilst stationary. Any chance you can get it on a rolling road at your friendly local garage, put it in gear etc.?
The S40 & V40 are simply notorious for engine mounts, especially upper, must be a design thing.
Best of luck Flying torquewrench (great name by the way!), look forward to long-term developments with interest.
Tech's "The Man" but if you want my pennyworth on the engine mount(s), then if you have been driving the car for a while & got used to how it feels/drives and all its noises & if a mount has only just started to go then it may be worse when the engine is under strain connected to the transmission & front road wheels. Over time it may slowly worsen to the point where, as I suggested above, you can reproduce the noise by revving the engine whilst stationary. Any chance you can get it on a rolling road at your friendly local garage, put it in gear etc.?
The S40 & V40 are simply notorious for engine mounts, especially upper, must be a design thing.
Best of luck Flying torquewrench (great name by the way!), look forward to long-term developments with interest.
Try http://www.partsforvolvosonline.com/...checkbutton=Go (or call them if part not listed online) or maybe http://www.eurocarparts.com (tel. 020 8956 5000).
do let us know if the new mount does the trick!
BB
#18
10-21-2005, 09:07 AM
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RE: Strange noise
Hello BB,
Tech is THE MAN that's for sure, never doubted about his knowledge for one second. However first wanted to see all other suggestions before buyng a new relatively expensive engine mount. But in the end i will buy the engine mount and install it in the next months or so. Quite busy at the moment so don't want to spend my only free time on my car if it easily can wait another three weeks.
Thanx for the links. The second one (eurocarparts) has got them in stock. At this moment i am still waiting for a quote from the Volvo dealer in the netherlands but according to the dutch volvo site they must be around the same price as eurocarparts. Once i have instaled the new engine mount i will report back to you all.
Thanx everybody for your help.
Tech is THE MAN that's for sure, never doubted about his knowledge for one second. However first wanted to see all other suggestions before buyng a new relatively expensive engine mount. But in the end i will buy the engine mount and install it in the next months or so. Quite busy at the moment so don't want to spend my only free time on my car if it easily can wait another three weeks.
Thanx for the links. The second one (eurocarparts) has got them in stock. At this moment i am still waiting for a quote from the Volvo dealer in the netherlands but according to the dutch volvo site they must be around the same price as eurocarparts. Once i have instaled the new engine mount i will report back to you all.
Thanx everybody for your help.
#20
11-15-2005, 09:47 AM
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RE: Strange noise
Hey Tech,
The plan didn't solve the problem. Last weekend i have changed the right hand engine mount but it does not solve the problem. However it seems that the problem now occurs at the moment when i release the throttle and not anymore when i push the throttle.
Any ideas?
Regards FT
The plan didn't solve the problem. Last weekend i have changed the right hand engine mount but it does not solve the problem. However it seems that the problem now occurs at the moment when i release the throttle and not anymore when i push the throttle.
Any ideas?
Regards FT