Hello everybody,

I was driving last night and heard a loud bang from my car. I thought a blew a tire, but the car started losing power and I realized I had a mechanical problem. I limped along to the dealer and they diagnosed it as a thrown rod. They're saying the only solution is a new engine at $10,800! The car has 78k on it and is otherwise in great shape. Do you think I have a valid argument with Volvo of America on this? Is 78k too much to expect from a T5? Is there anything else I can do besides replacing the engine?

This is a 2012 S60 T5

Thanks,

Jeff

 

Has it been dealer serviced at the correct intervals?

 

I've only seen rod fails due to lack of oil.

I'm surprised you were able to drive to the dealer.

 

Devils Advocate time. This is what the dealer might tell you if you bring a claim. It's nothing personal most of the time but you might want to be as prepared as possible to answer coolly and logically when you hear these responses:


I don't know your specifics but any engine will fail sooner if it sees a lot of redline time, lack of maintenance, or a combination of the two. If this is a commuter car that putts to and from everywhere with no mods and a solid maintenance record then you might have a beef but it's really rare for a manufacturing or assembly defect to show up in an engine at 75K. There are also normally warning signs before the big pop like bearing knock at start up, loss of oil pressure due to the added clearance from tolerances stacking up against you in the bearing / rod journal area. You might also hear some valve train noise (due to lack of oil). Noises will come from different areas depending on what components get priority in the oiling system. I don't know what gets priority in these engines so I can't say specifically where the low oil pressure noise might come from.

If the rod snapped, piston pin went pop, or the rod bolts broke then excessive repeated smacks on the RPM limiter or added horsepower or both is normally the root cause for the failure (or nitrous, or added boost etc etc etc there are all kinds of fun ways to pop a rod). The short of it is, I think you will have a hard time proving a hardware defect in the engine due to the mileage on the car and the type of failure that occurred. There are just too many ways for legal to argue their point that are hard for you to refute without a level of documentation that you couldn't have unless you ran a data logger on your car similar to what race teams use and saved the records off to disk storage. They can play the what if game all day long based on the type of failure and likely win.

All this being said, that 5 cylinder normally coasts to 200K plus with normal use and maintenance. Volvo has been really good to me and mine. They take their customer service seriously so it wouldn't hurt to ask. If they say no then 10K for a new engine install is a bit high. You could probably knock a few thousand off that price by going to a local shop. More if you get a take out engine from a wreck instead of new.

If they say no, then think of this as an opportunity to make your baby better earlier than you expected :-)

 

Thanks Jerick,

I'm a pretty conservative guy and I take good care of my cars. I usually keep them until they die - my 2003 Honda just rolled 160k. If you look at my previous postings, I had a problem with the engine going dry and I took it to my dealer who found nothing wrong. I suspect these issues are related, but not sure how.

Volvo of America called me this past Friday and they were very good on the phone. They said they would discuss the issue with the dealer and get back to me with how much help (if any) they're willing to give.

I've never redlined this car or any other car I've owned, but I can understand how that would be a bad thing.

Thanks again for your response.

Jeff

 

Low oil pressure could easily cause a spun bearing which would cause a drop in oil pressure or the damage you're describing. Since you have a record of the low oil pressure warnings I would say you have a leg to stand on here

 

Just a quick note to wrap this one up. Volvo of America defers to the dealer on goodwill offers. My original dealer was 1000 miles away and is now out of business. The dealer I brought it to would not do anything for me - they didn't sell me the car. I found a garage to install a used engine with 39k on it for $4k. The car is still in the shop, supposed to be done late next week.

Thanks all!

 

They don't defer to the dealer entirely. I have seen plenty of instances where we did not sell the customer the car but Volvo goodwills the repair 100%. When there is a goodwill split (either between Volvo and the dealer, Volvo and the customer or between Volvo, the dealer and the customer), there are usually other factors (like outside factors causing the problem.

If the car launched a rod for no reason, I can't see why Volvo wouldn't goodwill it 100%.

 

The dealer said my oil was dirty, which caused the problem. Not sure how dirty it could have been when I added 6 quarts just a few weeks before the problem.

Once the replacement engine is in, I can trade the car in on a new honda and put this behind me.

 

What?! Dirty oil? That's weak. If you were 2 quarts low maybe but just dirty? After the rod was tossed the oil would have all kinds of contamination so I can't see how that argument would fly. I'm sorry that a dealer soured you so badly on your car.

 

My car threw a rod also. 2012 S60 T5. About 78k miles also. I got it goodwilled after fighting. Some googling of 2012 S60 T5 oil burning or oil guzzling turns up a whole lot of threads. Needless to say, known issue. If you did 5 minutes of research on Google, you would have found all that you needed. There is a known defect in many of the engines and there is a TJ on it. In fact, they now tell you to use synthetic oil after they Goodwilled a bunch of bad engines over the last couple of years.

 

Mine drove to the dealer too. It made a knocking noise. The engine was burning oil like crazy and no check engine oil light went on, even when starved. There is a TJ to update the software which I had but it still did not work. I check the oil levels religiously in the new engine, even though I got a lifetime warranty on the replacement.

 

Thanks djtomr, you are correct, there are many complaints like this on the web. I have reached out to Volvo USA again, this time I'm asking for full remuneration of costs, not just some assistance in paying. It's obvious Volvo has a problem here. If I must, I will look into a class action suit; my guess is there are many more people with the same problem. Thanks!

 

No class action lawsuit needed. They are usually willing to help if you get to the right people. It's sad that you didn't. If it comes down to it, I am sure they would be happy to make you whole, especially if a lawyer got involved. Their legal would quickly tell them to settle as they don't have a case. There is plenty of evidence out there backing up your claim.

 

I still think something is missing from the story. I've seen plenty of goodwill and I'm surprised this wasn't one of them.

Yes, there is a problem with those engines burning oil. But the fact he had to add 6 quarts means he was driving it nearly empty. That would be neglect, burning oil or not. Warranty or out of warranty, it is still the driver's responsibility to check oil level.

 

Yes, something wrong with the engine likely caused something else to malfunction to be burning that much oil. Volvo *might* help you, but if you have stayed loyal to Volvo by using a Volvo dealer to service the car, they will almost *ALWAYS* bend over backwards to make it right, even if it's not their fault.

I do believe the issues with these cars are Volvo's fault due to the way the engines were designed or manufactured. People see a problem and think they can fix it or they catch it too late, or they take it to someone who doesn't really know Volvo vehicles enough to know what the issue is (because they've seen enough of these).

Good luck. I do feel for this guy because I was in his shoes 18 months ago and it sucked big time.

EST, you also helped me so I want to thank you. You did find the TJ on the engine defect that got me started on the right path. There is also a thread on swedespeed that is pages and pages long where many people have had this issue and gotten new piston rings or new engines when that didn't work.

There was only a few people that didn't get Goodwilled and the only reason is because I don't think they were patient and persistent enough.

 

Right, they usually have no problem helping out. Especially this issue (I have personally done several sets of rings and our dealer has a whole has done plenty, along with complete engine replacement if they still burn oil). But like I said, it is still the driver's responsibility to maintain the oil level. If the light comes on, bring it in or top it off. Don't keep driving. That is likely why I suspect they aren't helping here. I've also never seen one launch a rod either.

 

Mine had a ticking (knocking) noise where the first Volvo dealer said it was from the bottom and was likely due to oil starvation. I had oil in it at the time but it previously got very low on oil. I guess the bearings got messed up causing the knocking noise? I will never know because Volvo has the engine and likely took it apart for inspection. Hopefully it was something they could rebuild at the factory and resell.

I wouldn't know the sound difference between a rod or bearing because I know enough to do the basics. I don't do this for a living so there is a lot I have not seen, heard, or witnessed!

 

Hey everybody, thanks for the continued feedback. I agree, if the oil light comes on, don't drive it, check the oil, add if necessary. If you look at my earlier posts, the several times the I'd discovered the oil to be completely dry (down 6 quarts) the oil light never came on. I reported this to Volvo long before the engine failure and I have documentation of it. The dealer's response was "well it's full now". No S**T, I filled it and drove it to the dealer. In a nutshell, the sequence of events is: I discover the oil is out, I fill the engine with oil, take it to the dealer, no issue found, I opened a case with Volvo USA, drive a few hundred miles, discover oil is out again, fill it, go to the dealer, update my case with Volvo, no issue found, about a month later the rod blows, but the oil is full at this time. Volvo says "dirty oil, you caused this". How can the oil be dirty, I've added gallons of fresh oil over the course of a few months.

Guys, something is wrong with these engines. Google the problem, lots of hits.

I wrote a new letter to Volvo USA and got a response yesterday which basically says "out of warranty, sorry for your dissatisfaction, we're not doing anything, hope to serve you in the future, this case is closed".

I had a 3rd party install a used engine with 39k on it and the car is running well now. My only option is to get a lawyer at this point, but I'm tired of the fight.

Jeff

 

Yes, something is wrong with some of the engines burning oil. Updated piston rings are available and have been done outside of warranty. I haven't seen an oil pressure sensor fail to go off with lack of oil pressure (I've seen them fail the other way, saying there was no pressure when there actually was... But even that is very rare). Of course that doesn't mean yours didn't fail. I'm still curious why this wasn't goodwilled with documented oil consumptio complaints, but I'm not surprised they are not reimbursing you for the used engine.