Greetings,

Great forum and information as always. I'm having an odd issue that just started with my 2001 S60 T5, which has about 140K on it.

The car has stalled twice. Both times it restarted. Before it stalled the car was severly underpowered...i.e. accelerator all the way to the floor would result in about 2000 RPM. It would also not idle and run rough. When this doesn't happen, the car runs fine. I'm suspecting the throttle position sensor.

I checked the codes and here is what came up:

P1171: Manufacturer control air metering
P0172: System too rich (bank 1)
P0121: TPS/Pedal position sensor A CKT range/perf
P1609: Manufacturer control auxiliary inputs auiliary outputs
P0014: Camshaft position sensor actuator B bank 1 timing over advanced

I cleared the codes, and the only one to return is P0014, but I haven't driven the car for it to stall again. Yet, it idles rough and lobes (surges). I'm assuming I need the car to stall again for it to throw the P0121 error, if that is indeed the cause?

If it is the TPS, where is it on this car?

Also note, I replaced my timing belt a couple of weeks ago. Also note, this problem started BEFORE my timing belt job. Could the timing belt be 1 cog off and still run ok? I'm assuming that could be the cause of my P0014? The deeper problem though, which started before the timing belt replacement, I believe to be a separate issue. Not sure if there are two issues here or of the TPS could be causing all of these symptoms?

I greatly appreciate any advice or help!

Thanks,

Greg

 

Yes you can be one tooth off and still run good. I would recheck the marks to be safe.

Your car has an electronic throttle body not a TPS sensor.

If you are within 10 years 200,000 miles and the ETM is bad they will replace it under an extended warranty.

But I would try cleaning it first and see what happens.

I would also try to check and see if the recall software for the ETM has been done already.

 

Tech,

You're a wonderful resource.

I was definately certain when I did the timing belt, I wasn't a cog off. The crank and cams didn't move when I did the belt. I'm sure as you know, its hard to see the timing mark on the camshaft closest to the firewall, because there is too much stuff in the way, strut mount the way I recall. I will take your advice and make certain I'm not off one cog.

I was aware of the warranty issue. In fact when I talked with the dealership, they said for a while they couldn't keep the throttle bodies in stock there were so many failures.

Here's the catch though. I cleared the fault P0121 and I can't get it to come back. The service manager said Volvo won't cover it under the extended warranty unless it is giving that fault code. I told him it did and cleared it, but said it needs to be there. Is that true? He also said, they send the engine running parameters to Volvo to let them make the final determination whether or not to make the warranty repair. Is this true? The cost of the part is $650. If it's not under warranty, I'll do it myself.

Is it also possible I have a camshaft position sensor failed? I went out and started the car tonight and it ran fine.

Thanks again for all of your advice!

Greg

 

What is the procedure for cleaning it? Can you do it in place, or does it need to be removed? The parts guy at the dealership said absolutely DO NOT try to clean it. He said on this one it can make the situation worse. Please advise.

Greg

 

It is under the intake manifold. Since it is turbo it will be easier to remove it and clean it.

If you take the car to the dealer and complain about running problems and there is throttle body codes the first thing they do is clean the throttle body. I am not sure why they are saying not to clean it I think you spoke to someone that does not know what they are talking about.

Yes they send the specs to Volvo and let them decide.

If it is not under warranty and you have to fix it after you install the part you will have to tow it to the Dealer and they will have to download software to make it work with the car.

The camshaft reset valve on the top of the motor could be bad setting that code but I would double check the timing first.

 

Tech, Wow thanks for the valuable info about the throttle body replacement. They also didn't indicate that to me.

At any rate, I took the car into the dealership today. Unfortunately, since I cleared the codes the other day, the only code left is the camshaft position sensor code P0014.

The car was having its symptoms when I took it there, but they couldn't tell me that the camshaft position sensor was the root cause. They said they would replace it and see what happens. I am highly dissapointed that I paid $100 for the diagnosis just to have them tell me they are going to be shotgunning parts. I could have done that! They said it's about a 60% chance it is the camshaft position sensor causing the fault. They verified the timing was correct. They said if it's not the sensor causing the fault, then it's the VVT on the end of one of the camshafts. That would be what they would replace next.

All of this and they could not tell me if it would cause the symptoms I'm seeing. Highly dissapointed.

But the more I think about it, maybe it is the cam position sensor....or something with the VVT. I say that because the car has NORMAL power up to about 4000RPM, then after that it runs poorly. Almost like the cam or timing should be advancing or something.

What are your thoughts?

 

It sounds like something in the VVT system. Exactly like you described the timing should be adjusting and is not exactly like you think.

 

Would you start with the camshaft position sensor? Could it be causing this issue? Thanks again for all of your valuable information.

Greg

 

I would start with the reset valve. It is located on the top of the cam cover by the timing pulley. It has 4 screws holding it on.

I have seen way more of the reset valves go bad than VVT pulleys.
If the cam position sensor was bad it would throw a code and be hard to start.

 

Ok Tech,

Again, thanks for the great help. Fortunately we have 3 cars so I can take my time with this a little.

I picked up the VVT solenoid for the exhaust cam today from the dealership. I see it comes with a new wiring arrangement also. They told me this is a HIGHLY repalced item for the symptoms I'm seeing....(along with the throttle body). On a side note, again, the parts guy told me DO NOT spray cleaner in the throttle body. According to him there is a special coating on the throttle body plate which the cleaner will remove. I'm not sure I'm 100% with his knowledge, but he is now the 2nd guy from the dealership who has told me not to try and clean the throttle body. (unless they just like selling parts)

What is your experience with this solenoid for failures? (I do know its on the exhaust cam)

Thanks in advance, again,

Greg

 

They say not to use carb or brake cleaner but at the Dealer we ourselves were using it to clean the throttle body.

I have seen alot of the solenoids go bad.

 

I have bought throttle body cleaner in spray cans before. They warn not to
use them in diesel or turbocharged engines. No reason given, but I doubt that the maker would put this warning on the cans to reduce potential sales if it weren't necessary. I'll believe them.

 

BTW, the warning on the spray can is in conjunction with its directions to spray the cleaner into a running engine. So, I suspect its acceptable to use it (or similar) on a removed part that will be thoroughly dried before reinstallation and restart of the engine. Still don't know why the stuff is supposed to be toxic to turbos and diesels, unless it has something to do with compression of the air-fuel mix.

 

Tech,

Ok....I replaced the VVT solenoid (at the top of the engine near the exhaust cam timing sprocket) and updated wiring that comes with it. I still have the same symptom. It idles fine, but under full acceleration the engine hesitates at about 4000 RPM.....what is the next part I should try?

Greg

 

Did the codes get cleared and come right back?

 

Tech,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

There is one code that remains and comes back if I clear it. I'm still having the cutout and under powered which starts at about 4000 RPM. The code is P1171, "Manufacturer Control Fuel Air Metering".

Any thoughts?

Again thanks for all of the help,

Greg

 

The Mass Flow sensor might be bad.

 

Tech,

Should I attempt to clean it or just replace it?

Also, doing some research points to the possibility of an O2 sensor. Does this car have a front and rear O2 sensor or just one?

Thanks again,

Greg

 

You can try cleaning it. But if it is bad usually cleaning will not help.

Your car has 2 sensors.