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Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?

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Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?

  #1  
Old 12-16-2013, 02:48 PM
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Default Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?

Hi everyone,

I have a 2004 S80 2.5t with 96k miles. The engine is a victim of sludge. Right now the car runs, but it has an oil light due to low oil pressure caused by the sludge. I've pretty much run the gamut of possible possible fixes.

I'd like to get your opinions on whether I should sell the car like it is (essentially with a blown motor) or if it makes more sense to replace the engine and then sell it.

Thanks for your input.
 
  #2  
Old 12-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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Have you seafoamed it?
 
  #3  
Old 12-16-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 75ohm View Post
Have you seafoamed it?
Yes, I did it after replacing/cleaning the pcv system and that's actually the thing that helped it the most. It ran for 2 weeks with no oil light after that, then one day it came on again. After that I dropped the pan again, cleaned everything, but to no avail.
 
  #4  
Old 12-16-2013, 07:42 PM
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Thinking while typing... what is causing it to gum up... I suspect your oil pump has something to do with this too... but I can't be certain. It can also mean that you are pushing sludge around... I am only guessing at this point.
 
  #5  
Old 01-12-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 75ohm View Post
Thinking while typing... what is causing it to gum up... I suspect your oil pump has something to do with this too... but I can't be certain. It can also mean that you are pushing sludge around... I am only guessing at this point.
Thanks for the reply, my apologies for my late response. I think you might be right that the oil pump could be gummed up. Unfortunately though, I suspect that this and many other engine components are heavily sludged beyond the point of repairing a single component to fix it b/c the previous owner ran conventional oil in it for a long time which was presumably baked by the turbo and turned in to sludge. I'm to the point where I have another car, so I mainly need to figure out what the best way to sell this one is (as-is or w/ a new engine).

Thanks again for your reply!
 
  #6  
Old 01-12-2014, 11:22 PM
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A quick check of 2004 S80 prices makes me thinks a nice example with just under 100,000 will get about 9 to 10 grand. I figure a shot engine will bring in 1/2 that on a good day and replacing the engine seems like alot of work, a lot of expense, and will eliminate some buyers which will put downward pressure on the price.
So I'm thinking that if I had the car I would invest small amounts of cash to try and fix her up and then sell it for parts if all else failed.
I have mixed feelings about seafoam - I have had 2 02 sensors fail immediatly after running it through the fuel system and the stuff wasn't designed as an oil additive in the first place but as a fuel stabilizer. Doesn't mean it won't work in the oil. Doesn't mean it won't remove warts either.
You might try a product called Auto RX. My experience is only by observing a high mileage, abused Chrysler mini-van owned by an acquaintance. His oil light went out and he swore the car ran better. Took a while though- I THINK he drove it about 5 thousand miles over a 2 or 3 month period.
 
  #7  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:33 PM
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This may seem like a strange thing to do....but, I have been known to have some brain farts work...it did for my brothers vehicle which was doing the same as yours...so, with that being said, buy 5 gallons of diesel fuel, drain your oil after you have let it warm up. Put 5 quarts of diesel in the engine after you have drained the oil and replaced the drain plug. Start your engine, let it run for 3 to 5 minutes, shut it off and drain the oil again. repeat this twice, then change all the fluids in the oil pan, change your oil filter, and then put Castrol 20w 50w oil in your vehicle. See if that works...it did for my brother and that was 10 years ago and he is driving the same vehicle w/ the same motor. Sometimes you have to think out of the box.....burningfire.
 
  #8  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:53 PM
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20W50 is way to heavy an oil for Volvo engines.
Thats more likely to cause sludging.
10W 40 would be the highest i'd ever risk personally.

As for the diesel oil flushes, I shall not comment but am cringing at the thought.
Lets see what others say ??
 
  #9  
Old 01-14-2014, 10:28 PM
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Burningfire seems to have jumped on today for the second time in a year and is spreading his . . . knowledge ???
Diesel is a bit risky and there are many engine flushes I'd pick way before I put in diesel as they would provide better lubrication and prevent a possibility of any damage. If it's really nasty you can just add a can of Seafoam each oil change and drive on it the whole time using it to it's full benefit.
Mine was really nasty when I got it and I used a quart of transmission fluid with each 5 quarts of regular 15-40 each oil change until it cleaned up. Trans fluid is basically a 10 weight oil but it has much higher concentrations of cleaner in it.

20/50 might be ok in southern warm weather only states but I think you are going to be the only person pushing it's use unless it's a highly modified turbo Volvo.

If he's losing oil pressure I'd think it would be more likely be the first signs the "O" rings in the pan are starting to go. It's pretty common on our engines.
 
  #10  
Old 01-14-2014, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by brettboze View Post
Hi everyone,

I have a 2004 S80 2.5t with 96k miles. The engine is a victim of sludge. Right now the car runs, but it has an oil light due to low oil pressure caused by the sludge. I've pretty much run the gamut of possible possible fixes.

I'd like to get your opinions on whether I should sell the car like it is (essentially with a blown motor) or if it makes more sense to replace the engine and then sell it.

Thanks for your input.
If i were you, given that your car has only 96k on the clock and is presumeably tidy overall I would keep her and get the motor issues sorted.
If you have other vehicle transportation you can look on it as a medium term project to reduce the financial drain by spreading the costs over the period it takes you to do the work at your own pace.
A recheck of your recent full PCV system overhaul including hoses etc and replacing of the oil pan 'O' rings, maybe a new oil pump should see your problems sorted out hopefully.
Did you fully clear the crankcase fow and return ports when you did the PCV as it would have been work in vain without those clear also?
 
  #11  
Old 01-14-2014, 11:26 PM
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I didn't ask about crankcase pressure. Difflock54 you're talking about making sure the passages in the oil pan the PCV uses are open when you do a PCV replacement, right ??
 
Attached Thumbnails Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?-pcv-drain-holes.jpg   Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?-pcv-oil-pan-passage-blocked1.jpg   Looking for opinions on whether I should sell or fix?-pcv-passage-oil-pan-circled.jpg  
  #12  
Old 01-15-2014, 09:26 AM
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Thank you kissafrog for your vote of confidence of one of my cures for sludge that wont go away...I'm 60 years old and have learned a few cures for this problem in that amount of time. A lot of oil has a wax base that turns into sludge when it gets hot, I have used diesel to clean sludge more than once and have never damaged an engine yet. And yes, I have been out of pocket for a while due to sickness, but I would never give advice that I knew would cause damage to someones engine. And this person was at the point of taking the engine out and replacing it, so what could my idea hurt???
 
  #13  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:11 PM
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Flushing the system no matter what you use isn't a cure. The cure would be to make sure you have air flow through the PCV system so fresh air is being pulled in and the contaminants and moisture are being drawn out, AND that the car is driven often enough, long enough to reach operating temperature for a period of time to evaporate the moisture out of the oil and engines interior.
Flushing will cure a symptom but not the cause.

There are many chemicals available to help clean (flush) and engine and they are designed to do that. Diesel fuel isn't designed to lubricate and as this engine is a turbo it's a bit more susceptible to poor lubrication. There is a very fine film protecting the bearings in a turbo under a lot of heat at high RPM (it's spinning a lot faster than the engine even at idle). Diesel fuel isn't designed for the heat or pressure of protecting soft metal bearing surfaces.
If you were recommending diesel to flush out an older iron block 350 chev or something it wouldn't be my first choice but they handle abuse and neglect so much better. In an aluminum block and head turbo I'd rather have something less drastic, that's tested and designed for the purpose. Or at least only put in a quart or two of diesel, not a fill of diesel. The other issue that a lot of people worry about is loosening up too much too fast and clogging the oil pump intake, losing oil pressure and taking out the bearings. I've never had it happen personally but I've know tech's that did. I've also seen engines that died from lack of oil because nothing was done and they finally clogged so I'm a believer in doing something.

I've used trans fluid so I'm no purist. If I had diesel on hand I might toss some in there but it's not what I would go and buy to use.
I just disagree with using all diesel to run the engine on for flushing. And if I've learned anything, I've learned we will never all agree on anything
 
  #14  
Old 01-15-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Kiss4aFrog View Post
I didn't ask about crankcase pressure. Difflock54 you're talking about making sure the passages in the oil pan the PCV uses are open when you do a PCV replacement, right ??
Yes, I have read of cases of people doing a PCV service and either not clearing, or inadequately clearing the ports,especially the ones in the block.
It can contribute to an engines clogging problems when the above occurs although probably more likely to blow out oil seals.
 
  #15  
Old 01-18-2014, 07:54 AM
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Did you check the actual pressure to make sure the pressure switch is not bad?

I would keep the car, 96K is nothing really. Replacing with another with 100K gives you a new unknown. For not even half that you can get an indy to replace the engine.... or rebuild the engine....

But... with that said. Don't use diesel fuel as an alternative. That is dangerous and it will for sure dislodge grit and pass it through the bearings while hopefully not causing your engine to explode internally

When you have sludge to that level, you can't treat it with 1 step. Go get a box of oil filters and use a full synthetic oil (suspends junk in the oil) - Walmart sells a 5 qt container of Moile 1 for less than $30. The seafoam and transmission fluid will work well, as stated before, but I would not run that long term in the engine during the cleaning process. Add it. Get the engine HOT. Drive it reasonably (no engine oil light). After say 100-500 miles check the oil and see if its dirty. This will tell you a lot. If the oil looks new, the problem is not likely sludge; O rings, pump, etc. Assuming the oil is dirty, change the filter whenever it starts taking on a darker hue than the previous change. At 1-3K change the oil unless its really dirty at an earlear point.

All that said. IF you get the sludge out, say over a few weeks and the engine looks clean inside and you still have a pressure problem go after the pump/pressure relief.

If that doesn't work, the long term use of sludge vould have killed the bearings. Main and rod bearings can wear enough to cause pressure loss.
 
  #16  
Old 01-18-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by donf View Post
A quick check of 2004 S80 prices makes me thinks a nice example with just under 100,000 will get about 9 to 10 grand. I figure a shot engine will bring in 1/2 that on a good day and replacing the engine seems like alot of work, a lot of expense, and will eliminate some buyers which will put downward pressure on the price.
So I'm thinking that if I had the car I would invest small amounts of cash to try and fix her up and then sell it for parts if all else failed.
I have mixed feelings about seafoam - I have had 2 02 sensors fail immediatly after running it through the fuel system and the stuff wasn't designed as an oil additive in the first place but as a fuel stabilizer. Doesn't mean it won't work in the oil. Doesn't mean it won't remove warts either.
You might try a product called Auto RX. My experience is only by observing a high mileage, abused Chrysler mini-van owned by an acquaintance. His oil light went out and he swore the car ran better. Took a while though- I THINK he drove it about 5 thousand miles over a 2 or 3 month period.
Thanks for checking those prices, that's good to know. I agree with you about the seafoam, although it did seem to have a huge effect, it's almost like it can be too strong. I've seen others use auto Rx on some other sludge threads as well and they had good success too.
 
  #17  
Old 01-18-2014, 04:34 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I might consider trying another flush of some sort. I have heard of the diesel fuel, but am saving something like that as a last resort, so that I truly would be at the point of removing the engine before doing that. The Auto RX does seem to work well for many people.

In reply to the questions about the PCV ports, thats a good idea, but I actually have cleaned those out. The big one on the side of the block was completely shut when I did the PCV job, but it and all the others were totally clear before I started putting hoses back on. Also the ones in the oil pan/lower end of the engine weren't completely blocked when I pulled it off, but I did clean anything I found while I had the pan off. That reminds me, I also go the o-rings replaced a while back when the whole problem began, good thought though.
 
  #18  
Old 01-19-2014, 08:37 AM
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This popped into my head....

Did you check your engine oil cooler and lines. If the sludge was that bad, maybe you have an accumlation in the lines and cooler. Taht would certainly have an effect on the oil pressure if it is partially blocked. You could probably get a cheap little drill operatated pump, some hoses and clamps and circulate fluid. You could use fresh gas as that woudl cut the oil quicker than even deisel fuel. Just remember to let that sit open for an hour or so to evaporate the gas off when you are done.
 
  #19  
Old 01-19-2014, 03:28 PM
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it is a very easy fix. drop the oil pan, make sure u clean it very good, also on the engine block side, make sure u clean where the square oil gallery to the oil pressure sensors. some of the 2.5 engine would have updated the new oil pick up too. I would not put any other addictive into the engine. Just fix it right the first time then u r problem free. but of course after that u need to change oil regularly.
 
  #20  
Old 01-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kwatt View Post
This popped into my head....

Did you check your engine oil cooler and lines. If the sludge was that bad, maybe you have an accumlation in the lines and cooler. Taht would certainly have an effect on the oil pressure if it is partially blocked. You could probably get a cheap little drill operatated pump, some hoses and clamps and circulate fluid. You could use fresh gas as that woudl cut the oil quicker than even deisel fuel. Just remember to let that sit open for an hour or so to evaporate the gas off when you are done.
I actually don't think I've ever checked that. Thanks for the suggestion!
 

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