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Opinions on New Engine or Repair

  #1  
Old 07-10-2014, 11:14 AM
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Hi Everyone,

My mechanic replaced a timing belt, water pump, tensioner, and idler, and did something wrong. My car jumped time, and now it has valve and head damage.

Do you think it's better to replace the engine or repair it? I should have more specifics as to what the exact damage is. Does it matter on the severity, or is it just better to do one thing or the other?

Thanks,

Sherry
 
  #2  
Old 07-10-2014, 11:52 AM
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Are they paying for it? You can usually just replace the bent valves but the only way to know is pull the head and check it out. Could be a couple valves, could be all of them. It may also need valve guides.

I wouldn't have them put in a used engine that you know nothing about the history of.
 
  #3  
Old 07-10-2014, 12:32 PM
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I hope to God they're paying for it! I will know more today. Thanks for your comment, it makes sense not too use an engine I know nothing about.

Thanks,

Sherry
 
  #4  
Old 07-10-2014, 02:39 PM
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Talked to the mechanic. They are taking the head off to see how much valve damage, then getting a quote from the machine shop for the repair. They haven't committed to paying for it. They told me that the cams were still lined up like they should be, and the tensioner is perfect. When it first happened they said that the timing had jumped 3 units, so I'm not sure how they could know that if the cams were still in position. They say that looking inside may show them where the problem is. Does this make sense?

Thanks,

Sherry
 

Last edited by Stormy5621; 07-10-2014 at 02:42 PM.
  #5  
Old 07-10-2014, 04:11 PM
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You should have taken it to a different shop who can tell you honestly what happened. Of course, they will try to cover this up. The fact is, if the timing belt is replaced properly, there is no way it will jump time on its own. If they can't do a timimg belt without messing it up, I would not trust them to remove and install the head.
 
  #6  
Old 07-10-2014, 06:45 PM
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Hi,

I appreciate your point of view, unfortunately, I have very little resources at my disposal. I scraped together the money to buy this car after my last car caught on fire. I had to borrow from friends, and hock things. Right now, I need around $400 to just pay bills for this month, so the idea of trying to find someone else to work on this, when I don't have the money to pay for it's repair didn't seem to be an option.

It sounds like, in your opinion, there is nothing that they could see by opening up the engine that would cause it to go out of time. Is that right?
 
  #7  
Old 07-11-2014, 06:30 AM
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Right. All they will see is how bad the damage is.
 
  #8  
Old 07-11-2014, 11:46 AM
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Ok, thanks so much!

Sherry
 
  #9  
Old 07-12-2014, 10:43 AM
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I can't think of a reason why a well running engine would just "jump" timing especially right after the timing belt was changed! The shop should be responsible to fix the problem, I agree, but to have them pay for it to another shop is not right-hopefully they will be competent and honest enough to take care of things for you without too much bobbing and weaving.
 
  #10  
Old 07-13-2014, 02:20 AM
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Thanks Lev for your comment.

I talked to them Thursday and they said they were taking the head off to see all the damage, and are getting a quote from the machine shop. They are still saying that they installed everything perfectly, and made it sound like they were going to find out why it jumped time, by looking inside the engine. I'm getting a little irritated that they haven't said definitively that they are taking care of it.
 
  #11  
Old 07-13-2014, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stormy5621 View Post
Thanks Lev for your comment.

I talked to them Thursday and they said they were taking the head off to see all the damage, and are getting a quote from the machine shop. They are still saying that they installed everything perfectly, and made it sound like they were going to find out why it jumped time, by looking inside the engine. I'm getting a little irritated that they haven't said definitively that they are taking care of it.
If they haven't already taken responsibility for their screw-up then I wouldn't hold your breath.

The "took two people to put the timing belt on" is a giveaway. Professional mechanics take every possible shortcut and it sounds like they installed the belt over the projection under the crank pulley. It's possible they just put it back together after that and handed you the keys. Timing belts are tough and you drove it half a block before it jumped time. After that, who knows what they did.

Bunch of losers.

Ancient Chinese proverb: "Girl with no money buy Honda or Toyota."
 

Last edited by migbro; 07-13-2014 at 03:12 AM.
  #12  
Old 07-13-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lev View Post
, but to have them pay for it to another shop is not right-hopefully they will be competent and honest enough to take care of things for you without too much bobbing and weaving.
How is that not right? I have had many customers bring their car to the dealership after an indy shop messed it up. If they were not able to do the timing belt, why should they be trusted to do a whole head job?

This is a good example of why I say it doesn't matter where someone takes their car (dealer or indy shop), it matters who fixes it. Everyone on the boards is so quick to bash us dealer techs, but somehow they miss the posts where some idiot at an indy shop wrecks someones head and then doesn't take responsibility.


As for putting the belt on over the nub under the crank, there is no way the car could have driven out of the bay like that, and I seriously doubt it is even possible to install the belt that way anyway. There simply isn't enough slack.
 
  #13  
Old 07-13-2014, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ES6T View Post
As for putting the belt on over the nub under the crank, there is no way the car could have driven out of the bay like that, and I seriously doubt it is even possible to install the belt that way anyway. There simply isn't enough slack.
I'll defer to your superior knowledge on this. So what did they do that made the belt so difficult to put on? This is not a difficult timing belt job. You'd need to do something creatively stupid to screw it up.
 

Last edited by migbro; 07-13-2014 at 10:38 AM.
  #14  
Old 07-13-2014, 10:45 AM
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They might have been able to get it on, I'm not sure. I've never tried, but I am almost sure there is not enough slack. However, if they did somehow get the belt on around the nub, it would shred the belt as soon as the engine was cranked. So that is why I don't think that is what they did.

My best guess would be they installed it with slack between the crank and intake pulley. The tensioner is between the crank and water pump. So when the belt is installed, the belt needs to have all the slack on that side so the tensioner can be adjusted to take up the slack. If there is slack between the intake and crank, it can be very hard to get the belt around the tensioner pulley because it leaves less slack for that side. It can be done, but when they tension the tensioner, it will be wrong. The car will run, but eventually it will skip time, especially at a higher RPM.

Of course, there is no way to prove this, even before the head is removed.
 
  #15  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:06 PM
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Ancient Chinese proverb: "Girl with no money buy Honda or Toyota."
Ha Ha, ironic migbro!

I did a lot of research, and my girlfriend has a Volvo with 300K+ miles on it. I bought one because they seemed really well made, and I could afford to do the preventative maintenance. I'm going to talk to them Monday, and get this straightened out. I am holding my breath, as they haven't said they weren't paying for it. I appreciate your comments, and I will be ready to put up a fight.

Thanks,

Sherry
 
  #16  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:10 PM
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My best guess would be they installed it with slack between the crank and
intake pulley. The tensioner is between the crank and [COLOR=blue !important][COLOR=blue !important]water[/COLOR][/COLOR]
pump. So when the belt is installed, the belt needs to have all the slack on
that side so the tensioner can be adjusted to take up the slack. If there is
slack between the intake and crank, it can be very hard to get the belt around
the tensioner pulley because it leaves less slack for that side. It can be
done, but when they tension the tensioner, it will be wrong. The car will run,
but eventually it will skip time, especially at a higher RPM.
Thanks ES6T for this detailed reply. That makes a lot of sense, and I will mention it as a possible reason, when I speak with them tomorrow. Wish me luck!

Best,

Sherry
 
  #17  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormy5621 View Post
Ha Ha, ironic migbro!

I did a lot of research, and my girlfriend has a Volvo with 300K+ miles on it. I bought one because they seemed really well made, and I could afford to do the preventative maintenance. I'm going to talk to them Monday, and get this straightened out. I am holding my breath, as they haven't said they weren't paying for it. I appreciate your comments, and I will be ready to put up a fight.

Thanks,

Sherry
Well, good luck. Just remember anything they say other than "we messed up, we'll pay to fix it" is 99.9% bullsh!t. Any story about some mysterious failure that just coincidentally happened as you drove off is a flat-out lie.

It's unfortunate that many cars that have the potential to last 300,000 miles or more are killed by this kind of mistake. Even if your S80 survives this mishap it will find many other ways to drain your wallet.
 
  #18  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:20 PM
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Yeah, good luck. Any reason they "find" for the problem is a lie. They messed it up, one way or another. Hopefully they don't mess it up when putting it back together.
 
  #19  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Stormy5621 View Post
Thanks ES6T for this detailed reply. That makes a lot of sense, and I will mention it as a possible reason, when I speak with them tomorrow. Wish me luck!

Best,

Sherry
Oh, they'll love that. Maybe better to just listen to their nonsense and then tell them you disagree with their story and that you expect them to fix it at no charge. Then follow up with an attorney's letter politely stating the same.

When you get your car back, make their half-assed repair someone else's problem by selling it immediately on Craig's List (new timing belt!). Then buy a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla.
 
  #20  
Old 07-13-2014, 12:46 PM
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Oh, they'll love that. Maybe better to just listen to their nonsense and
then tell them you disagree with their story and that you expect them to fix it
at no charge. Then follow up with an attorney's letter politely stating the
same.
Sounds like a plan! Thanks for your support.

Best,

Sherry
 

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