I have a cascading set of events but the odd 2187 that I've been having has become much clearer.

The engine is making an odd noise some say it whines, I'd call it more of a bird chirping.

Remove oil filler cap and it stops.
Remove di[ stick and it stops.

I have excess pressure in there and it is probably the PCV box. I called Volvo USA and I am covered under the extended warranty #205.

Now the problem is to get the dealer to diagnose it, pay for it, etc. I am sure they are loathe to do the work because they probably don't get paid all that much to do the work. I already had the service guy tell me I am wrong.

 

If the car is under the 205 extended warranty, they have no choice.

 

Yes but the problem is this -

The last time I was buying parts at the dealer, I told the parts guy what I suspect. The dealer parts guy which knows me from buying parts there said -- you are correct.

So I went to the service guy and told him what I suspect and he said - no it can't be that.

So if I take it in and they don't want to d the work they can say it is something else. Then I get in a cat fight.

Just went to the independent people I use at times and they said they would diagnose, do the work and then I submit the invoice to Volvo USA. The mechanic came and talked to me and already said that unless there is something weird going on I am most likely correct.

The indie shop I just mentioned is accustomed to me leaving a note with my theory and so far I've been 100% correct with them. The mechanic laughed when I talked about my disdain for such a PCV system.

I have yet to throw 250A but perhaps it was pending and I didn't know it when I cleared the 2187. Just went out, removed the oil filler cap, put my had over it and almost had my hand sucked into the engine.

http://www.theeshadow.com/files/S40M...rranty_205.pdf

I've seen various posts on different sites such as this --

"Had this done on my `06 last month. Fully covered under the extended warranty. Make sure you talk to the Service Manager first before talking to the Service desk guys. The Service desk guy was not aware of it and tried to charge me for the work. "

 

I don't have the bulletin with me right now, but I am pretty sure it says it is covered if the customer has the symptoms listed, one of which being a howling noise from the breather box.

I don't know why they wouldn't want to do the work. Sure, it doesn't pay terrific but it isn't terrible either. Pays 1.6 hours if I remember correctly and can be done in under an hour.

 

There in lies the problem. According to the extended warranty on Volvo North America paperwork.

What conditions must be evident if the condition is present?
The Check Engine Light may illuminate, and there may be a noise coming from the engine.

I've turned off my CEL but it was 2187 which is a lean condition and not PCV specific. Extended Warranty #250 states you don't' need a CEL to be illuminated.

Extended Warranty #250 states a noise from the engine and doesn't give a specific description.

My noise is more like a chirping that disappears when you pull the dipstick or remove the oil filler cap. I am not sure what the howling noise might sound like...perhaps this is howling.

If I didn't have the noise that goes away when I release the crankcase pressure (dipstick / oil fill cap) I might be looking elsewhere for the CEL 2187.

Diagnostic page after page includes this in a 2187 search - "Check the PCV valve and hose for leaks." The Volvo has a system not the usual valve.

This is exactly what my car sounds like.


This one is not quite as loud but still the same

Check the PCV valve and hose for leaks.

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p2187
Copyright OBD-Codes.com
Check the PCV valve and hose for leaks

Read more at: http://www.obd-codes.com/p2187
Copyright OBD-Codes.com

 

What's your VIN?

I'll cross that generic code tomorrow to see what Volvo code it references.

I don't think there should be a problem getting this covered.

 

Thanks

Here are all the numbers, everything except the alpha

682872312096

 

The bulletin does not list any specific codes aside from the ECM-250A, which is not the code you have. However, it does say it is possible that ECM-250A will be stored but does not say it is required.

I would take it in for the whistle, that is a definite symptom. If the extended warranty is valid for your car, it should be covered (I could not verify without the whole VIN, but you said you contacted Volvo to confirm)

 

Thanks

I made an appointment to take it in for them to diagnose the issue. This is a shop that I've only used for keys programming and VIDA computer programing stuff. I hope I have a good experience.

 

Went in today for a diagnosis. I was there for quite a while and the service guy comes out and says...you were right about the PCV and it is covered under the extended warranty. The tech guy is almost finished the install.

Noise is gone. Now I hope that the PCV was the reason for the codes and we are code free.

Looking at the install I see that the hose clap they used is a wire tie. I guess that is ok but to me it wouldn't seem as tight as a clamp.

Also the hose coming out from under the valve cover is all dusty like it has seen a lot of miles. I hope they changed it.

 

The zip tie is half assed. They should at least put a worm clamp on if they aren't going to use the proper Oetiker clamp.

If the hose is easy to squeeze, it's probably been replaced. The original one usually either crumbles apart or hardens.

 

Agreed -- "The zip tie is half assed. " Sigh....now what?

The invoice does show zip ties on it and also hose clamps. Why do I have to even check their work? This is why I do 99% of my own work. I guess if I didn't know where the box was or what a PCV hose is this problem wouldn't even come up.

So you say I should be able to squeeze that hose?

Went out and squeezed the upper hose and I can't squeeze it. It is hard. Can't squeeze where it enters the PCV box and I can't squeeze the top where it enters the valve cover. Because of the dust on the crease at the top where it makes the slight bend gives me a bad feeling that it is the old hose. I have a bad feeling that they didn't want to remove the valve cover so they just used the old hose.

But in reality they would need to remove the intake and that would involve removing the cover. SO why in the world wouldn't they use the new hose. If only the hose wasn't dusty like an old hose would look.

The zip tie is loose enough to be rotated by hand.

Odd just odd.

 

Realistically, the zip tie will hold it without a problem. Its just with the heat in the area, it may break someday. Even then, there likely wouldn't be an issue. You could call the service manager and make an issue of it and explain you're not confident the hose was even replaced. If he doesn't do anything, you can call Volvo.

The part number for the breather box is correct. They changed the part number since the bulletin was released. That happens a lot.

I couldn't say whether they replaced the hose or not. It is certainly the newer version, but I think the 07 came with the newer version anyway.

 

So this morning I sent an e-mail to the service manager about the hose that was not replaced under the warranty #205. It is my belief that the dealer would be paid for the parts and labor to replace the hose. If they didn't replace the hose they would be getting paid for parts and labor that were not completed.

E-mails

Hello

So far everything is fine but I do have two issues that come to mind.


From reading the Extended Warranty #205 Form from Volvo USA it is my belief that the upper PCV hose is to be part of a replacement kit. I can't say for sure and the technician probably can't remember but I feel that the upper hose may not have been replaced. Because I had concerns, the day of the installation I took pictures.


The first picture shows a lot of dust build-up on the hose. After only an 11 mile drive it could be considered an unusual for a new hose to have such an amount of accumulated dust. I tried to squeeze the hose, it was not at all supple but I don't have a new hose in hand for reference. Could the hose that existed have been in such good shape that it was inadvertently used instead of the hose in the kit? To be confident that a new hose was indeed installed, all that I have is the trust and reputation of Lehman Volvo.



The second issue is that a zip tie was used to connect the PCV hose to the housing. I would think that I would see an Oetiker clamp or at least a worm clamp. I guess the zip-tie shouldn't cause any current problem but in the future it could suffer from heat fatigue and the end result would be a broken zip tie. Such a break would mean the hose is not fully tightened to the PCV housing. Even without a connector, since pressure doesn't exist, unless the hose walks itself off the hose bib, there should not be a problem. I would have thought a more permanent connector would / should have been used to connect the hose.


I'd appreciate your thoughts in this matter.

Dealer Reply ------


JS

Thank you for you interest in the repair performed on your Volvo. The hose for the PCV system would be replaced as needed as part of this repair and a cable tie is what the repair calls for to secure the hose to the breather box. By the looks of your picture the hose was not replaced. If you would like the hose replaced we would be happy to do so at no charge to you.



Please let me know if this is something you would like us to perform. Any repair of non wear components replaced through our service department would be covered by a lifetime parts and labor warranty. If you have any further question or need further assistance please let me know.

Thank You,


Service Manager


My reply to dealer


Hello


Thank you for responding to my e-mail.

I feel that because the extended warranty covered the hose and labor, the work should have been done. The extended warranty parts list includes the ventilation hose.

Yes I will accept your offer to replace the hose. I am sorry that I am causing you extra work but iI feel that it should have been replaced as part of the warranty repair.

Now I am starting to worry about the intake gasket. If the intake needs to be removed again, will another removal cause stress to the intake gasket and lead to early failure. I’ll stop by to schedule a time to have the repair completed.

 

The recall also pays for the orings for the intake

 

Thanks for your reply.

My trust for these folks is at zero but I am stuck with them.

Looking at their invoice it shows part #31331885 and 5 were used in the repair.

Now in the service guys recent e-mail he said - " The intake gaskets can be reused several times, they are rubber o rings and we routinely reuse them with no consequences. " So who is the unlucky one who will experience a consequence. A consequence that would be created because a cheap O ring was not replaced?

So the question is - did they reuse my O rings or install the new ones? Remember that right now that trust factor is at zero.

The intake gasket that I was asking the service guy about is the big gasket, not the O rings. How many times can that be re-torqued. It isn't part of the warranty work and I'm fine with buying one. Should I buy one and ask them to install it or is it fine to re-torque for the 3rd time?

The invoice also says "replaced the breather box and associated parts."
IMHO the vent hose is a BIG associated part but was not changed. That hose could have accumulated gunk in it and they do not know. So when the intake was off, with all parts easily accessible --- WHY THE HECK DIDN'T THEY REPLACE THE DARN HOSE. Ha --- yes caps is me wanting to yell at them.

The cable tie. I don't have access to what VIDA says and have to take what the dealer says. Dealer says -- "a cable tie is what the repair calls for to secure the hose to the breather box."

 

If they didn't replace the hose, they didn't remove the intake. When replacing the hose, the lower intake manifold, which uses a paper gasket is not removed. The orings for the upper intake can be reused but since they were charged out, I would insist on new ones.

976561 is the part number for the correct clamp for the hose. Two were charged out (one for each end).

I agree with the no trust. You could still contact Volvo, since this crap should not happen anywhere.

 

Glad you are sticking with me on this.

They did replace the PCV housing. Can they replace it without removing the intake? I'm trying to picture this engine and what I have in my head is a split intake.....upper and lower. Am I seeing it correctly?

To replace the hose needs an intake removal where a paper gasket is involved, I would be afraid of a nick to the gasket. Then I could end up with an intake leak.

Now I'm thinking that I should just be happy, move forward and not let these people touch my car ---- ever again.

One thing for sure is that I need to get up to speed on the mechanics of the Volvo engines.

Before my current Volvo's the last Volvo I owned was in 1969, it was a 1964 P544. I was a 16 year old that bought his first car and it was easy to work on. Although the dual carbs were a bit of a pain. Wish I still owned it because it was fun to drive.

I just don't know what to do about the dealer doing more work on my car.

 

You are correct, it is a split intake. But the lower part is not removed to do any of this. The lower intake has a paper gasket between the intake and the head. The upper intake has orings between it and the lower intake (the 5 that were charged out). The upper intake needs to be removed to replace the hose, but not to replace the oil filter housing.

 

So what kind of (being kind here) idiot would remove the intake and not replace the hose.

Unless ..........

They replaced the housing and never did remove the intake and never did replace any O rings.

Just called a dealer 30 minutes away in another town and talked to the service dept. She asked the mechanic and he said under a #205 they do replace the hose. She said they also use a hose clamp and not a cable tie.

She asked me to review the invoice and lo and behold the hose is noted under parts. To me it is not new and looks old. If they did replace the hose, it is odd that my service guy is so accommodating and ready to spend un-needed labor time to replace the hose. No service manager wants to waste 1.5 hours on a job they already did (replace hose).

I think it was not replaced, I think they were going to get funds from Volvo N.A. for work that was not completed and for parts that were never used. Call be a skeptic but that is my 40 years of shade tree, engine replacing, wrenching view of what I see.

So what can I make a mark on to make sure they remove the intake, replace O rings, etc.????