Dealer is no help and I need some advice...

Thermostat housing crapped out and I removed the intake manifold and T-stat housing and have new parts/gaskets in hand. Can't find torque specs for the 4-T30 bolts that hold the T-stat housing to the block or for the 7-10mm bolts that hold the intake manifold to the block. Tried two dealers and both just gave me dumb looks. Please help!

 

I would suggest about 35 ft lbs on the thermostat housing and about 20 ft lbs on the intake manifold bolts. In both cases you are working with aluminum so don't get too carried away.

 

 

Best wishes in your torque specification search.

 

I'd have to look them up at work, but it isn't as critical as you make it seem.

 

The thermostat housings are tightened to 17 nm, Volvo recommends new bolts, (then again Volvo recommends new bolts for everything. Use a small amount of locktite.

The intake manifold is tightened to 20nm, again new bolts, (locktite.) (and yes they are easy to strip the block) If your using Fel Pro replacement gaskets remember to check that you do not use any silicone or other selant on the gaskets. If your using Volvo gaskets , depending upon the gasket Volvo now recommends using Wurst Super silicone, where and when appropriate. Many after market suppliers use Fel-pro products, the fel pro gaskets THAT DO NOT USE ANY SEALANT ARE MARKED. See Fel-pros' web for more information.

 

None of this is correct.

Volvo does not say to use new screws for the thermostat or intake.

The thermostat uses M6 screws which are to be torqued to 10Nm. The intake uses M7, which are 17Nm. Neither use Loctite.

Volvo gaskets for either go on dry. You can even reuse the intake manifold o-rings.

 

Get your facts straight befote you lecture me on VIDA.

Go look up the procedure for the thermostat and show me where it says to not reuse the thermostat or intake bolts. Or show me where the parts catalog indicates the thermostat housing comes with new bolts. Or show me the specific torque values. Or this sealant you claim it calls for. Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

I must agree with the above. I've changed several of these over the years and we simply tighten the torx screws/bolts and be done with it.

I don't know why we even try with some people. Despite offering advice, the individual insists on the factory published torque and argues with everyone that tries to help.

I say let him/her do what they want. I'm done with this kind of stuff.

 

BOB THE FOLLOWING IS A CUT AND PASTE FROM A PARTICULAR YEAR OF XC90, WHAT YEAR IS YOUR VEHICLE, IS IT A XC90 CAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF VARIATION FOR THE EXACT FIGURES YOUR LOOKING FOR??"Tightening torqueGeneral tightening torqueSummary of tightening torques for specific components"

Vida reports many different values for different vehicles. Many of the pages look very similar BUT do in fact have slight variations. The intake manifold is one of these.

As you can see from the table the "Generic" torque values for a M6 is 10 nm, the generic for M7 is 17nm. BUT when you go to the section marked "for specific components" there is a lot of additional information depending upon your specific vehicle.

Depending upon the year and VIn of your vehicle you can find values for the intake manifold of 18nm, 25nm, and 30 nm.

As you can clearly see from Vida: " Note! Screws coated with a locking fluid or self locking nuts must be replaced with new when reinstalled. " All thermostat screws and bolts are coated with a dry locking fluid. Many thermostats come as "housing kits" only now, you can't get the individual thermostat itself from Volvo, plenty of aftermarket places though. These housing kits come fully assembled and some are pricey. Some come with gaskets and new bolts. If you purchase Fel-pro, which supply many after market brands some require sealant. Volvo now recommends Wurst super silicone for those applications and gaskets and or gasketless surfaces such as the transmission valve body cover and other places. There are many variations a lot of stuff comes from "Factory Only" training, throw in aftermarket parts, the confusion of trying to look something up without the actual vin, and you can see the confusion this creates.

What is your particular vehicle?

You can only re-use the O-rings on the intake if you have a 2007, depending upon the engine, XC90, etc., and up, do you in fact have a newer than 2007 Volvo? And re-using the O-rings is actually NOT recommended. It's just that Vida in the repair section doesn't mention wheter yo can re-use them or not. Over time these things get brittle and fail. IMO this is a personal choice at your own risk. I have found however that Volvo takes the position with all gaskets of every type that they are a use once and I have never seen any Volvo literature or specification that says that it's ok to reuse any O-ring anywhere. In fact in the "theory" section it does in fact mention that the removal / re-installation process on an unclean engine can in fact cut O-Rings and for that reason they are to be used once. On many of the newer Volvos these O-rings cost upwards of 50 bucks,....you can see why people would want to reuse them. Which of course begs the question why is someone advocating their reuse in the first place? Are we taking apart new cars for the fun of it? Is this some kind of repair that didn't go well the first or second time, do you see my point? We are actually getting into warranty dates here,... and anything and everything under warranty generically includes complete new assembly's which come with new O-rings as well.

Of course there are many independent shops out there that do and advocate doing things the way they have been doing them for years. If it looks good then re-use it has been the motto. That doesn't always work. With these new engines, cleanliness, actually knowing aftermarket parts Vs. Volvo parts and methods becomes very important. Actually knowing which part gets "Dry" gaskets V sealant and what type of sealant becomes an exacting science, and knowing exactly which year and engine makes answering generic questions pointless. I've seen way too many Volvo late model "Valve Covers," as well as oil pans that used the wrong anaerobic sealant for example. As well as way too many people dicking around with their PCV system BUT forgetting to clean out their oil pan and or change the oil pan O-rings as well as not cleaning out the block to oil pan PCV passages. It makes no sense whatsoever to dwell on late model torque values whilst at the same time not knowing about the intricacies and oil pan issues Vs. the PCV system.

I'm gonna guess yo have a late model XC90, cause the newer ones , with differing torque values just don't have the same issues the late model ones did. This is a message to anyone with a late model Volvo, change the complete thermostat housing often, whether it looks like it needs to be replaced or not. They fail without warning and can send small parts into the engine passages. The sensor which comes as part of the housing kit now, fails as well. Which is why most all Models now have the thermostat housing assembly listed in the maintenance schedule. Of course many dealers want to sell new cars, and this repair generically ends up being an additional 400 bucks which doesn't get done because no one want to pay for it. Most housings go for about 150, give or take US dollars. Add in the labor and you can see why some advocate saving a buck on bolts. Problem is those old bolts corrode in the housing and make the job difficult for the next guy. So do yourself a favor find out if your particular housing kit comes with new bolts, gaskets, or if aftermarket, needs some sealant or not, but change everything, over time it makes a difference if your going to keep your Volvo. Of course if your like so many and just want to get it out of the "shop" and get it to last 30 days,...then do what ever you want as so many do.

 

Why did you bother to answer at all? You could have asked for more detail or actually answerd his question? Too many snarky answeres here as compared with actually trying to help someone trying to repair their own vehicle. Lots of sites have the Volvo Summary of Torque Value sheets listed, you could have posted or linked to one of those. The dealers have this information at their finger tips and in most cases are happy to print out relevant sections of Vida. A ****ty dealer OR not being able to get past the front desk is an issue at many busy dealers, BUT that's not an excuse for the dealers to NOT provide helpful information. Another issue is the parts guys at Volvo dealerships don't always have access that the service guys have. This shouldn't be an excuse to give up on critical information however, be persistent at a difficult dealership OR find another, take your business elsewhere, dealers are basically independents, and Volvo Corporate is very sensitive to those customers that actually take the time to complain. Let them know your dealer didn't help you.

Vida BTW is full of contradictions, this is why factory training is important. Something many dealers don't pay for BTW. Keep searching Bob Post you can find much information out there, there are lots of great sites, and Vida is available as well.

 

The thermostat does not come with new bolts. It's bolts are not coated and are not angle torqued. They are reused.

On the contrary, water pumps come with new bolts, which are coated.

The intake bolts are not angle torqued. They are reused.

I've had many I6 intakes off for alternators (not thermostats because you can do the job with the intake on). I always inspect the o-rings and have never found one to be broken or even brittle. And no, these are not new cars.

None of this matters. The OP seems to be another one and done. And just tightening them is enough. These aren't moving parts and they aren't just going to fall off. There are only a few things I break out the torque wrench for.

 

Like I said earlier, we tried to give open and experienced advice. Over the 20 years that I've sold used Volvos, I couldn't imagine how many of these things that we've had apart. However, I'm done.

 

(I do agree that many thermostats can be replaced with out being forced to remove the intake, however I wasn't going to mention this to simplify things. The big issue with removing any early intake is the PCV system and that hollow bolt issue near the alternator. Additionally if your changing the thermostat housing, such as on a 01 XC the intake really needs to moved slightly aside, it is very difficult to remove the housing otherwise. Many times on these forums if you ask a question it really is telling those that have done these maintenance things before where your at and your experience. I wouldn't wish banjo bolt hollow screw replacement anymore with out moving the ac compressor and alternator out of the way, although I personally don't move the alternators anymore, I feel around and most of the time, via painful experience can get it in and at the right torque without pulling the PCV tube apart. As an example. As far as O-rings, I can't tell , which is why I replace them. I don't know when and how long they last, I can't tell by looking at them if they are on their way out. This is actually the point worth repeating,...you or anyone else can not tell the condition of an O-Ring is in by looking at it. It may look just fine,....but you'll never know Which is why I have a box full of brand new transmission line O-Rings, a box full of OIL pan O-rings, dipstick O-Rings, oil filler cap washers, etc, etc,....again you do what you want. I have no issue spending cash and replacing O-rings whenever and wherever the situation arises. A new Executive can cost upwards of 60 thousand US dollars, if a intake gasket costs 30 bucks each, I change them without question. You are aware that intake leaks are associated with early valve failures. As an example.)

Hope all of this helps someone.

This is just one reason your dealers labor rate is 2x any independent shops, it is expected that all new fasteners and gaskets are to be used, ultimately for reliability, and dependability. As just one example.

 

FOR THE thermostat housing you recommended 35 ft lbs,...where did you get that number?

35 ft lbs is 47 Nm, if you do that the bolts will either break or strip the aluminum.

Depending upon the model year and engine the correct torque starts at 17Nm, for the thermostat housing. According to Vida.

Here is a cut and paste from Vida from an early model Volvo:Installing the thermostat

• the new thermostat
• Install the thermostat housing cover. Use a new gasket. Tighten to 17 Nm.

Installing the engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor

• the new sensor. Use a new gasket. Tighten to 20 Nm
• the thermostat housing. Use a new gasket. Tighten to 17 Nm.Connect the sensor cable connector.
  
  
  Again your quick to call names, but real short on actual information and when you do post information, must be a typo?????? Here is your response:

  Quote:

  Originally Posted by tony1963

  Like I said earlier, we tried to give open and experienced advice. Over the 20 years that I've sold used Volvos, I couldn't imagine how many of these things that we've had apart. However, I'm done. If this is experienced advice then perhaps you shouldn't be giving advice??? Again must be a typo,....

 

You are expected to order replacement bolts from the housing to the block

No, you are not. Those bolts are not torque to yield. They are not indicated to be discarded in the replacement instructions for the job. They are reused.

Aftermarket or AISIN water pumps frequently come without new bolts. I just purchased a Volvo pump over the counter AISIN WPV-800 ((manufactured by Aisin)), it did not come with bolts, I expected that it would. (I reused the existing bolts, I usually do not. I was in a hurry, call my a hypocrite.) The late model Volvo pump #30751700 comes with bolt kit # 985151 and as you point out are coated bolts. On a side note the aftermarket AISIN aftermarket pump has the Volvo logo ground off, I have no idea why, do you know why this is?

I'm not talking about aftermarket. Why would aftermarket ones follow Volvo procedures? I work at a dealer. I use dealer parts. Water pump bolts use thread sealer. Hence the reason new bolts come with the pump.


The intake bolts are not angle torqued. They are reused. (Never said they were angle torqued, and Volvo recommends new bolts for everything. Just because Vida is "silent" on this particular bolt in the relevant section the torque summary sheet makes it perfectly clear any bolt that came with locktite on it , gets replaced. And these intake manifold bolts I'm looking at all have the Loctite dot on them.

There is no Loctite on intake bolts. Again, if new bolts are to be used, it would say it in the instructions for the job.


And I already mentioned to the OP to use locktite or similar if they reuse bolts, BUT the thermostat housing gets new bolts each and every time due to the corrosion if present.

Which is it? Each and every time, or when corrosion is present. Now you are randomly adding stipulations.

For your information the 2019s' have Loctite on just about every fastener on the vehicle.

Wow, so you must have removed every bolt on a 2019 huh? Are you a dealer tech too? I haven't had a car where I've had to remove all the bolts yet. Sounds like another extreme exaggeration based on nothing.

Are you or me confusing "angle torque" with the angle torque procedure used on head bolts? I use a 1/4 " torque wrench on intake manifold bolts, either to 18, 20, 25, 0r 30 depending upon the year and engine, and what Vida has to say. For example Vida clearly says to torque a 2006 S60 B5254T2, AW50/51 AWD to 25nm, However a 01 XC70 with the 44 says: " Tighten all the screws starting from the middle with 20 Nm," for the intake. With head bolts I follow the "angle torque procedure" by using a 1/2" torque wrench first to the specified value. Then I switch to a 3/4" breaker bar with a protractor on it for the required number of degrees. As an example. Do you think anyone in the real world is going to quibble about a difference of 5nm? Probably not. But if I strip a head bolt, or perhaps better said if a head bolt strips,...I have the Vida sheet in my hand that I can point to. If someone asks a question I point to the actual Vida sheet for that particular engine. I try not to guess, or answere ****e I don't know. I have broken more than a few brake caliper bolts by reading the wrong torque values off of a XC90 sheet when working on a S60 for example, and the difference there is only 10nm. Sometimes the right Volvo numbers do matter.

There should be no confusion as to what angle torque means if you know what you are talking about. Intake bolts are not angle torqued, thus they are reused. Head bolts are, so they are replaced.

I never torque caliper bolts. We use impacts. And I've never broken one or seen a co-worker break one. So if you broke one by going 10Nm over, I find that hard to believe.

 

"I never torque caliper bolts. We use impacts. And I've never broken one or seen a co-worker break one. So if you broke one by going 10Nm over, I find that hard to believe. "

You go ten Nm over on one of those small thermostat screws, and I would think it couldn't help but break. Which is why "Bob Post" asked in the first place. User Tony1963 retorted back with information that was clearly off the charts wrong and if followed would have resulted in instant headache and broken bolts in a very inconvenient location. You continue to insist that you do thousands of parking brake repairs and yet can't be bothered to post the initial break in procedure nor are you aware of the in line adjuster and how to adjust it until I mention it. You refuse to believe in what others have to say and yet there are thousands of XC90 owners in the UK with vehicles that have failed the MOT after their brake cables were in fact replaced. According to the numbers posted by the MOT Office. Volvo has acknowledged the issue , by responding to many concerned dealerships and individuals in the states. They are well aware of the issue, it is something that is discussed at the continuing education seminars. You were unaware that Volvo came out with a fix via the "star" adjuster. You use an impact gun on bolts that have a very specific bolt tightening procedure, written down by Volvo. Nor do you mention how to reset the parking brake whether it be type # 1 or type #2 as the first step in adjusting the parking brake,....there is a lot of stuff you haven't mentioned?????.

Here is the XC90 specifications for the caliper bolts from Volvo:
just as an example

Here it is for the rear wheels:

Volvo calls this procedure "Angle-tightening, " all other bolts are simply referred to as using the correct torque.

How do you get to the Volvo recommended 60 degrees after the bolts are torqued to the first step value with an impact gun?

If you use an impact for everything,...well that explains a lot,.... Like I said from the beginning, you do whatever you want,...I'll genereerally do what Volvo suggests to do. Including following their repair procedures.


Here it is again direct from Volvo:

 

You go ten Nm over on one of those small thermostat screws, and I would think it couldn't help but break. Agreed. But you were talking about brake caliper bolts, so I was talking about brake caliper bolts. Now you want to apply it to a thermostat housing bolt. Which is why "Bob Post" asked in the first place. User Tony1963 retorted back with information that was clearly off the charts wrong and if followed would have resulted in instant headache and broken bolts in a very inconvenient location. You continue to insist that you do thousands of parking brake repairs and yet can't be bothered to post the initial break in procedure nor are you aware of the in line adjuster and how to adjust it until I mention it. I never offered to walk anyone through it, so why would I post the procedure? And I am well aware of the adjustment in the cable. I mentioned it several times. But this has nothing to do with this thread.You refuse to believe in what others have to say and yet there are thousands of XC90 owners in the UK with vehicles that have failed the MOT after their brake cables were in fact replaced. According to the numbers posted by the MOT Office. Volvo has acknowledged the issue , by responding to many concerned dealerships and individuals in the states. They are well aware of the issue, it is something that is discussed at the continuing education seminars. You were unaware that Volvo came out with a fix via the "star" adjuster. They didn't "come out with" the star adjuster for the P2. That is a part for a different parking brake setup. One that uses the star adjuster as the means to adjust the parking brake. Again, irrelevant to this thread. Unless they released some TJ for it in the UK. But not here in the US. You use an impact gun on bolts that have a very specific bolt tightening procedure, written down by Volvo. Not saying it's right, but it's the way it is. And I've never had anything bad happen from doing it this way in my many years working for Volvo. Nor do you mention how to reset the parking brake whether it be type # 1 or type #2 as the first step in adjusting the parking brake,....there is a lot of stuff you haven't mentioned?????.

Here is the XC90 specifications for the caliper bolts from Volvo:
just as an example

Here it is for the rear wheels:

Volvo calls this procedure "Angle-tightening, " all other bolts are simply referred to as using the correct torque.

How do you get to the Volvo recommended 60 degrees after the bolts are torqued to the first step value with an impact gun?

If you use an impact for everything,...well that explains a lot Never said I use an impact for everything,.... Like I said from the beginning, you do whatever you want,...I'll genereerally do what Volvo suggests to do. Including following their repair procedures. And including making up your own, apparently.


Here it is again direct from Volvo:

 

best read I've had in quite awhile. I've saved an 04 2.5 from the scrapyard and with my extremely amateur mechanic skills this forum and in particular some of your posts have helped me out, didn't save busted knuckles(tranny filler plug) but just wanted to say much appreciated sir, I don't drink but bill set you up a round if you do